Basic ammo

[richard]

How or can i change the ammo load out on the M1A1? All i want is sabot, it seems to work real well on all targets and don't see the sense of having to jump from heat to sabot every time i turn around. I understand that heat works on pc's and groups of grunts but the 50cal coax & sabot do the same job without the run around. 8)

[eageleye]

It's not a good idea to only carry sabot because the heat round will sometimes do the job when enemys hull down where a sabot wont u need the arc of heat i like you love GUNNER SABOT PC but it not realistivc or pratical

Sorru

[ShotMagnet]

You can open up the mission you're playing in the mission editor and change the tank's ammo mix from there. You can also give your tank better (or worse) ammo by selecting from the different varieties of HEAT and sabot available. They're spelled out on the same screen that lets you change ammo quantities.

Shot

[Hell_Hound]

Specifically, you right-click the unit in the mission editor, select Options > Set Ammunition and set your HEAT supply to zero. After doing that you'll be able to stuff in sabot rounds to replace the HEAT you just took away.

Click the "For other vehicles use this ammo type" and "...use these ammo quantities" boxes, hit OK and you should be good to go.

[BlackDeath]

How or can i change the ammo load out on the M1A1? All i want is sabot, it seems to work real well on all targets and don't see the sense of having to jump from heat to sabot every time i turn around. I understand that heat works on pc's and groups of grunts but the 50cal coax & sabot do the same job without the run around.

Sabot rounds are bad for environment because of DU, dont use it!! :cry:
:mad2: :roll:

[DerHai]

[quote]
Sabot rounds are bad for environment because of DU, dont use it!! :cry:
:mad2: :roll:

Remember: dU isn't radioactive waste - it's only a BIT radioactive. The damage, that is done by dU ammo is only small in relation to the damage that is done by the battle in general to a country.

mfg [derHai]Merlin

[richard]

I changed to the 829a3 ammo. Now the AI does all the killing. Average for 1 shot kill before. 2300m to 3600m now its 3600m to 4000m. And the T-80 does not like these rounds. I used to pop them at 2000m to 2300m. Now the AI makes 1 shot kills at 3200m to 3900m. Yep this is a GOOOOOD BULLET!!! :3starSK:

[Hell_Hound]

Now give the T-80s 125-2. :)

[DerHai]

I changed to the 829a3 ammo. Now the AI does all the killing. Average for 1 shot kill before. 2300m to 3600m now its 3600m to 4000m. And the T-80 does not like these rounds. I used to pop them at 2000m to 2300m. Now the AI makes 1 shot kills at 3200m to 3900m. Yep this is a GOOOOOD BULLET!!! :3starSK:

But Richard! That's not nice, if you have this superior ammo and your enemys don't have anything, that has similar power. That is unfair like this: :nuke:
And remember: If you have to use this superior ammo to win, this can become critical if you don't have this ammo...

derHai -

[TaNkB0y]

In some situations using downgraded/upgraded ammo can help make a scenario more realistic when you can't juggle other variable. Case in point is the Egypt vs. Libya scenario I am working on. The M1s the Egyptians use don't have the DU armor package that US ones do nor do they use DU "silver bullets" AFAIK. Also I am writing in that the Libyans have gotten ahold of T-90s, so I've given the "T-90s" the good ammo to reflect the less effective armor they will be shooting at and likewise giving the M1s much less effective sabot and HEAT rounds to reflect the less effective projectiles and improve protection of the 90 series...

[richard]

I take the game very seriously. I do not like to lose one man not alone one vehicle. If you wish to go to battle with inferior weapons crews or ammo so be it.I will not accept secound best. I don't see how anyone could. :?

[TaNkB0y]

In real combat, I can see stacking the deck in your favor. But this is a GAME. Whats the fun in wandering around with a death ray zapping helpless tanks and making it easy for yourself?

[Ssnake]

If this discussion illustrates what a difference the technical progress in ammunition technology can make, that feature has already served its purpose. :)

[ashdivay]

only way DU round will kill u with its radioactive properties is when u have DU round in ur mouth for 10years ! or drink water from well which has a DU round in it for 10years !
the % of U235 uraniuam in DU round is less then 0.2% to 0.5% it varies from Rounds to round as well as countries to countries but never exceeds a level that would be harmfull to its own crew !
Regards
Ash

[dejawolf]

gulf war syndrome "wink wink" it doesn't have to kill ya. it's worse when you get 3 eyed kids, or grow a third arm in your forehead...

[colin]

Richard
there is a lot of cases in history where soldiers have to use inferior equipment/ammo against an enemy. How do you think a Panar commander felt in his PZ I or II when they saw a Char B or Matilda? The Russian normally downgrade the export models of their tanks, so Iraqi T-72's are not at the same standard as Russian ones. Even the Canadian military does not buy the best ammo for us or the different types that can be used. A soldier is often forced to use up stocks of existing ammo, before the country will buy more. In WWII the british were machining live 75mm rounds captured from the Germans to fit thier new Grants!!!!!

[Bluewings]

About DU :

It has been said there is more than 20 tonnes of DU rounds in and around Baghdad from US fire .

For me , THIS IS WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION . :evil:

And now , tell me why the US Congress has forbidden the use of DU rounds on US soil ? :shock: :thumbdown:

Cheers . :3starsk2:

[dejawolf]

ok, off to FFZ but whatever,
i think US should clean up the toxic waste they've left around iraq.

[Bluewings]

agreed .

Cheers . :3starsk2:

[DerHai]

I take the game very seriously. I do not like to lose one man not alone one vehicle. If you wish to go to battle with inferior weapons crews or ammo so be it.I will not accept secound best. I don't see how anyone could. :?

I don't want to accept the second best, too. But sometimes I have to do, because there is no better ammo available.
Look at Germany: The Bundeswehr[Rheinmetall AG] could *theoretically* develop better[than the DM53] dU ammo, too, but the current german policy prevents that.
If you would be a German *Panzerfahrer*, what would you do? :casstet:

Greets, Merlin


P. S. Merry Christmas to everyone! :present:

[Kingtiger]

only way DU round will kill u with its radioactive properties is when u have DU round in ur mouth for 10years ! or drink water from well which has a DU round in it for 10years !

Ash

OK, lets do some testing here, who takes the DU round in hes mouth for 10 years and who drinks the water???? :helmet: oh, ofcourse I will do all the documentation so I cant participate in the testings... ok? :angel: lol!!

/KT

[richard]

If the leo does not have the 829A3 ammo.. They do when i get thru :D :twisted: In this game or in real war you are not very happy when you die. So i will give all of my armor units the best ammo that i can. If i try a new scenario and i can't up grade i don't use that scenario :wink: I am not trying to cheat in this game. I am just doing to them exactly what they would do to me if they had the chance. :lol:

[DerHai]

Aehhh.... Äehmm.... Ok, that's true... the enemy would do the same thing like you... this is a *Totschlagsargument* [discussion stopper].
Perhaps we should leave this discussion now, because the arguments are changed.

Greets, Merlin

PS: I heared, that the greatest danger of dU ammo is to get an Poisoning because Uranium is a heavy metal.

[dejawolf]

If the leo does not have the 829A3 ammo.. They do when i get thru :D :twisted: In this game or in real war you are not very happy when you die. So i will give all of my armor units the best ammo that i can. If i try a new scenario and i can't up grade i don't use that scenario :wink: I am not trying to cheat in this game. I am just doing to them exactly what they would do to me if they had the chance. :lol:

well, when you enter a game, you usually follow the rules set.
it's a whole lot more satisfying to overcome a challenge, when the odds are stacked against you.. ;)

the other way around, it's extremely frustrating getting slaughtered time and again, against an unfair opposition.

[Hector]

I take the game very seriously. I do not like to lose one man not alone one vehicle. If you wish to go to battle with inferior weapons crews or ammo so be it.I will not accept secound best. I don't see how anyone could. :?

I don't want to accept the second best, too. But sometimes I have to do, because there is no better ammo available.
Look at Germany: The Bundeswehr[Rheinmetall AG] could *theoretically* develop better[than the DM53] dU ammo, too, but the current german policy prevents that.
If you would be a German *Panzerfahrer*, what would you do? :casstet:

Greets, Merlin


P. S. Merry Christmas to everyone! :present:


Yes, and also, i think most Leopard ammo depots still have a large inventory of DM33 KEs.

I read somewhere that in WW2, tungsten was not fully available to Germans due to blockades, so German tankers had to fight with other weaker tank ammunition against....T34s...

[hoggydog]

i think we have 2 topics in this thread
1- armies having to use inferior equipment because of supply problems or govornment policy
2- stacking the odds in your favour in SB by tweaking the ammo settings

im no expert on the first one but on the second issue i have this to say, alot of the sceanarios are set to a perticular date so giving your tanks super ammo is historicaly inaccurate, secondly it upsets the balance of the scenario, the person who designed it gave you that ammo for a reason, if your just going to upgrade to super year 2000+ ammo why stop there? make a new character and give him a gunnery rating of 08 to make the AI a real poor shot. or why not break the game code to make your tank invincible or for the tactical map to show all enemy locations seen or unseen?

[richard]

Guys this has been a really good discussion and i have really enjoyed the feed back. But theirs just something that i love about this ammo. Here it is .. Being in the observers position listening to the T. C. issue fire commands, seeing the muzzle flash watching the tracer element streak to the target and seeing a bright yellow/white flash on the horizon. Then i jump into the gunners slot and check the range...3970m...I maybe wrong to play the game this way..BUT DAMMMNED WHAT A RUSH. :D :twisted: :wink: 8)

[ShermansWar]

DU emits a burst of gamma radiation when it strikes a target.If you dont want DU all over your country, consider that before you war with US, cause we come in and spit DU all over the place. And i dont think we should clean it up.

[Ssnake]

For previous dU discussions, please search the FFZ board. It tends to quickly go out of hands anyway.

[DerHai]

@Hector and the T34:
The problem with the T34 was not only the Lack of good ammo, it was a more basic problem: The early german tanks had only small canons with short barrels (for example: the 75mm gun of the Pz IVD had only a 180(!) cm barrel), so it was realy difficult to develop ammo, that leaves the gun fast enough to make damage at a T34.
This changed, when the Germans fielded the Pz IVF2 with a barrel that had nearly the twice length of the gun of the PzIVD.


Greets, Merlin

PS: For more Infos look at www.panzerlexikon.de, but it's a German side.

[Hector]

Oh yes Hai

In fact, it was even worse for the Pz III, still the main tank during barbarossa. There were 2 issues. Someone at the waffenamt thought these little tanks did not really need the 50L60 KwK39, as originally ordered by the Führer (one of the only good ideas he had), and went instead for the shorter 50L42. With the L60 the Pz III had an slightly longer effective range, and also was far more effective against the brit tank in NA. With the L60 short range was possible, while with the shorte ones, the Pz III neded to practically kiss the T34s. Anyways, the Tungsten rounds usually widened the effective range of all German main guns.

That shorty on the Pz IV D was noteworthy. I think it was L30 or?

Ah, that site is great, i had already visited it.

[Newbie-Olle]

All i want is sabot, it seems to work real well on all targets ... I understand that heat works on pc's and groups of grunts but the 50cal coax & sabot do the same job without the run around.Really?
In my last couple of games I've always run short on HEAT while spending less than five APFSDS per tank.
The typical composition of opposition has been a bit more light AFVs than MBTs. Each IFV has a squad of infantry, and extra infantry squads have been "sprinkled" across the map.
To take out the infantry hiding in woods more than 2 km away you really need that HE component. The MG doesn't do it well enough at that range. The M2HB have too little ammo to make a difference for the M1A1, although I've only used the Leo.

If I had to chose one ammo type only for the main gun it would be HEAT, and then I'd avoid combat ranges beyond 2 km.

Cheers
Olle

[DerHai]

@Hecktor: The gun of the Pz IV D had a L24 barrel...

sometimes I can't understand the victorys of the German "Panzerwaffe" in the first years of WWII

[Hector]

@Hai

he he so kurz!!

well, Pz Jagers, flak 88s, Stukas and tanks with better communicatios, crews with better training.. first use of combined arms tactics, mobile warfare, tactical flexibility (Stolfy from USA loves the word)!! besides, T34s were ill deployed as inf support vehs at the begining.

[Hector]

aber natürlich hast du davon viel mehr Erkenntnisse als ich.:)

[DerHai]

Du sprichtst deutsch? Nicht schlecht... warst du mal in Deutschland?
Und warum glaubst du, ich wüßte mehr als du?

[colin]

Yesterday I was playing SB and ambushed a convoy using a M1, first vehicle over the ridge was a BMP, whacked it with HEAT, then a T-80 came over hit it with a HEAT, didn't kill it, the TC still ordered HEAT, the T-80 driving up to me, hit it pointblank on the front with 2 more HEAT, before it disappeared from view, just about had a virtual sh*t couldn't figure out why the TC didn't change to Sabot.

[Hector]

Ich habe niemals in Deutschland gefahrt!! Arme Ssnake hat mich vielmal mit Deutsch Sprache gehilft. Auch Joe und eine menge Deutschen. Ich kann gut lesen, aber, sprechen und meine eigene Meinungen sagen, mir zu schwierig ist. Grüße!

[Hector]

ah, Colin, I have seen that happen. I think is due to the ai TC not having enough time to spell the discourse, or having 2 types of vehicles in the GPSE, that confuse him. Not sure, but, seen it too. Greetings

[DerHai]

@Hector: Erinnert mich an mein Englisch... ähhh... this reminds me at my English.
Your German isn't bad. :thumbup: Why do you say "arme Ssnake"? What have you done?

[Hector]

hehe, just that I used to ask him for help regarding language. He was verypatient and replied my emails not only answering the SB related topics but he also corrected my message. I think the expresion is not so flexible like in spanish. When one bothers someone, one use to say, poor Joe, this guys nags him much. that i meant, greetings

[DerHai]

@ShermansWar: What is the danger if dU ammo emits a Gamma burst when it hits a target? It's a bit radioactivity, but his produces (I think) only a bit of contamination. The risk of contamination depends only at the radioactivity of the material of the Penetrator. This isn't dangerours for the crews of the firing vehicels, why it should be dangerous for anyone else?