RPG 7 equal to a M72A3?

[colin]

Looking for a equivalent in SB to the RPG-7 being used in Iraq. Would the M72A3 be the closest? I find that the RPG is a bit to lethal compared to the comments I am reading about non-penetrating RPG hits in Iraq. Comments

[ShermansWar]

There is an RPG 7 in the Game,and is the same as used in Iraq.i doubt they have any antitank rockets they are using predating the Iran Iraq war, and all the RPGs they got during the 80s are RPG7L or better. The nearest i find to it is the AT-4, which is also in the game, although the penetration factor is still a little better on the RPG 7, which is listed as 550 RHA. the AT-4 is listed as 500, and the M72A3 is only 320.Simply put,the warhead on the RPG, any model, is over double the weight of the warhead on the LAW.The LAW isnt in the same class.The latest RPG 7s have an RHA of 0ver 750 mm

[Ssnake]

It's a question of SB's damage model. A penetrating HEAT jet kills any vehicle in SB. Reality seems to be more forgiving.

[Ratseal]

The damage model in many simulations seems contradicted by the amount of damage that tactical vehicles can sustain in real life and continue to perform, although at degraded levels. My personal experience is limited to light tactical and light utility vehicles - but extreme amounts of small arms through .30cal, and considerable damage through 14.5mm can be sustained - and still operate.

The flip side is that one well placed piece of shrap or one round of small arms can cause a mission kill...

[Hell_Hound]

As far as personnel are concerned, what's the lethal radius/danger radius for a HEAT explosion? I assume the blast, while relatively shrapnel-free, would be pretty brutal due to the sheer volume of explosive.

For example, if you were standing with your back to a brick wall and a tank 1km away shot a sabot round at you and missed by a meter, you'd be fine. You'd hear a funny noise, then notice a hole in the wall, and that would be it.

If a HEAT round hit the wall a meter from you, I assume you'd be pink mist. How far away would you have to get, 90 degrees off the jet axis, to be deafened but unharmed?

[ShermansWar]

The other side of the wall.

[Ssnake]

I think you are underestimating the amount of brick fragments that the passing-through of the sabot is going to create. That would be far from "a funny noise, and a little hole in the wall"!
Precision hollow charge jets create less spall though, and their holes are even tinier, but they are also associated with overpressure and shock waves. So, if said "wall" indeed was a wall and not an airtight little box, you'd notice a massive bang, and a bright flash, and a tiny hole afterwards, but would still be fine. Many crewmembers of AFVs survived HEAT jets passing within a few centimeters with nothing but temporary blindness from the bright entry flash, and tinnitus from the loud bang. Still, sometimes it takes just a little bit of spall to take a crew out, if they happen to be in the way.
Under no circumstances I would feel "safe" behind a wall, that was about to be hit by a large caliber gun, even if it was a "guaranteed miss".

[NEpi]

actually, sherman, being behind the wall almost guarantees your demise.
the round will cause a massive shock wave, that will blast the inner lining of the wall to little stone shards that will spray the room in nice shotgun-like cone. not a pretty sight.
the marks outside will be of a small round hole.

that's why if you want to hit a sniper in the window, don't try to fire inside the window but on the wall.

[Bluewings]

If I remember well (tell me if I 'm wrong) the M1 who fired at an Hotel in Bagdhad because it was supposetly under fire from one of the room took a good part of the hotel with it as the Sabot round went through 2 walls and the ceiling and kept going up in the sky .

or was it a HEAT round ? :roll:

Cheers . :3starSK:

[ShermansWar]

Nepi,Perhaps you dont understand what " the OTHER side of the wall" means,But then this wouldn't be the first time you corrected me , only to say the exact same thing differently. :roll: :D

[Wolfman]

If I remember well (tell me if I 'm wrong) the M1 who fired at an Hotel in Bagdhad because it was supposetly under fire from one of the room took a good part of the hotel with it as the Sabot round went through 2 walls and the ceiling and kept going up in the sky .

or was it a HEAT round ? :roll:

Cheers . :3starSK:

I believe it was MPAT, not 100% sure though.

The explanation I heard was that the crew saw a cameraman filming the scene and thought he was an ATGM/RPG gunner aiming at them.

[Poker]

WHo's side of the wall are y'all talking about ?
From the postings above , with the symbol > being the tank, | being the wall, and 8 being the person, I read each person's post and description to be:

HH
> 8|

Sherman - "the other side of the wall"
> |8

Ssnake:
> |8

Nepi:
> |8

Maybe it would be wise to clarify your understanding before espousing you comments ??

[Kingtiger]

If I remember well (tell me if I 'm wrong) the M1 who fired at an Hotel in Bagdhad because it was supposetly under fire from one of the room took a good part of the hotel with it as the Sabot round went through 2 walls and the ceiling and kept going up in the sky .

or was it a HEAT round ? :roll:

Cheers . :3starSK:

I believe it was MPAT, not 100% sure though.

The explanation I heard was that the crew saw a cameraman filming the scene and thought he was an ATGM/RPG gunner aiming at them.

Heard the same thing, and I belive him, imagen U observate in combat a 2 man team with something that looks like a ATGM aimin at U...

I would have fired som more rounds afterwards to be sure they was "clean"

[Ssnake]

The just released book "Thunder Run" by David Zucchino explains in detail what led to the incident at the Hotel Palestine. In short, they were under heavy fire, and SIGINT captured the radio traffic between the FO and his mortars. His description of his whereabouts matched with the general looks of the Hotel, and indeed they saw a guy with a telescopic sight (the journalist's camera, of course) on a tripod. The error was pretty human and understandable, admittedly tragic though.

[ShermansWar]

Well Poker,I guess I'm just stupid. To clarify,i meant outside the wall, not inside. Having fired a heat round at a sniper in a window,i know well what will happen inside the room.i read HH as saying he meant in the room, and Ssnakes response about crewmen inside an AFV seems to indicate to me he also read HH as meaning inside the building, not outside.My mistake.Nepi, as usual,is saying the exact same thing I am , but differently.

P.S. I aimed for the wall, not the window.

[m1a1vha]

about HEAT rounds. you need to think what the shell was made of. aluminum casing will limit the kill and KE injury radius of the round, while the stell case/body will make it as deadly as a freg grenade. the reason is because of poor fragmentation patterns and loss of CE in the linear jet. this is when used in the open.

in built up areas, HEAT is a very localised weapon. even the shards of stone and brick that fly off from a wall impact will have a poor patern. one feature of HEAT is that it may make a hole big enough for infantry to go through.

HEAT depends on overpressure more than its blast/shrapnel to kill. if you fire a round at a room with a sniper in it, you will cause over pressure damage on the target. the same is true with troops in AFVs.

[Poker]

Well Poker,I guess I'm just stupid. To clarify,i meant outside the wall, not inside.

I did not intend to say that anyone was stupid, just that it seemed to me, and I may be in the wrong there, that you were seeing things differently than that which I thought HH was describing, and therefore your comments looked erroneous to the situation.

That's all I was getting at.

[Hell_Hound]

You had mine right, incidentally. Tank fires, round passes by person and strikes wall.

[NEpi]

M1, please refer to the incident of yesterday in Rafi'ah.
tank fired 4 rounds into a vacant building as a warning, and 8 people were killed on the other side of it.
notice that the tank crew haven't seen the people on the other side, so i assume only one of the rounds actually hit that group (as blindly hitting humans isn't that easy).
if HEAT rounds were so incompetent over a wall, this would never happen.

[ShermansWar]

You were right, and i was stupid.

[ShermansWar]

Perhaps i am not unjust. perhaps i apply the same standard to myself as i do anyone else. Maybe what leads me to point out stupidity in others so casually ,in this instance i apply to myself. No worries here, thats just how i am.I like to be right.Part of being right comes from admitting when I'm wrong, and the associated contempt.Next time I'll read more carefully.