The fate of SB1 after the release of SB2

[colin]

So what will happen with SB1 when SB2 comes out?
Not everyone is going to be able to afford to upgrade their systems or even able to acquire SB2 for some time. I don't doubt that the Team here will help anyone out, but are you planning to keep SB1 alive after SB2 goes mainstream? Will there still be MP for SB1 types?

I take it that a SB2 scenario will not be playable in SB1?



Why is that your eye always notices the missing word as soon as you have hit the "submit" button?

[Bluewings]

Will there still be MP for SB1 types?


I would think so .

Cheers . :3starSK:

[dejawolf]

it all depends how many sticks with Sb1

[DrDevice]

Sb2 scenario in SB1? What are you smoking Colin? :shock:

What makes you think, even for a second, that the games are related in anything but name?

Compatible….hee hee that’s rich! :lol:

I imagine there will be a few SB1 players around after ProPE comes out. The $125, or the cost of upgrading a PC to ProPE specs, is too hefty for some to play.

Once SB2 rolls around next year or the year after, I suspect that SB1 player base will drop significantly, just like old versions of just about any game. Never entirely, but finding players just loitering around to play MP probably won't happen.

So you probably have a good 12-18 months of SB1 play after SB ProPE comes out. Some players may switch solely to ProPE (going back to SB1 will probably require some SERIOUS incentives) but not all will be able to, as you point out. (PC upgrades, plus game cost, etc.)

So expect some drop off in MP players available, but I really doubt it's going to just evaporate.

[Hector]

My SB cd and manual will be some sort of piece of valuable history. i will put it right next to my other militaria items (very few btw). Is sad how we dump things so easily, worse yet, when is something that brings so much fun. I remember the day i got it. I did not have mail box back then, and i asked a neighbourgh who did. The thing is, that i dont remember where i bought it, i think I tried tanksim.com, but then i think i bought directly from esim, because tanksim could not bill my Mexican bank, not sure now. I will definately keep it handy, along with my Das Boot dvd.

Hector

[PS-SCUD]

We're all going to die of heart attacks when SB Pro PE comes out anyway, so why worry what will happen to SB1.

[TopKick]

I hope you are right, Scud. Maybe short fainting spells instead of heart attacks would be more in order. I don't wanna die having never played PE or SB2. I've had SB since the demo first came out and purchased SB1 when it first went gold. I've used it on three different computers since then. But still ... the wait is driving me nuts. It's been a long 4 years. SB2 or PE has already cost me thousands of dollars (but that's another story - put it this way - never make a deal with your wife for a new computer in exchange for new living room furniture). :oops: That was a year ago when we were expecting SB2 before christmas. :cry:

[Brun]

There is no room for sentimentallity in tank sims. Once sb2 prope is available, every second spent on sb1 will be that much less time adapting to the new game. When new rifles and tanks are givin to soldiers they may miss their old weapons for a bit, but there is no other way than to give 100% to the new way of things. I may go back and play a game of sb1 for the hell of it, but only after I have become satisfied with my skill in every aspect of sb2.

With Sb2 everything you have accomplished in sb1 as far as reputation for Co'ing and skill in battle will be meaningless. A clean slate, and those that where on top before will have to earn their names again.

[Thiefcatcher]

....... SB2 or PE has already cost me thousands of dollars (but that's another story - put it this way - never make a deal with your wife for a new computer in exchange for new living room furniture)..........:cry:


LOL, i guess here some guys who can tell this story :) LOL

My old Captain said once, there has to be a good command post back at home to make us do our work right.

I think he was right!! (even it cost you a new living room from time to time :twisted:)

Greetz

TC

[HighTower]

Great i just get the game just as it becomes obsolite.
Just my luck

[Zingo]

What about larger battles? Will there be a need for more than four players on each team, forcing you back to SB1, or will you still manage?

[ShotMagnet]

Depends on whom you ask. 4 per side is a restriction few are looking forward to, but there are work-arounds, depending on the situation.

The first that comes to mind is taking a large scenario requiring lots of players (such as the FG missions) and breaking them into smaller missions that use the same map, but assign a portion of the forces involved to teams of players from both sides.

Another way around would be to design a campaign that incorporates the player cap into its design criteria by splitting the total roster for both sides into teams of <= four players per side. I'm working on designs for two campaigns that are going to operate in this manner.

I don't like the restriction but it's apparently set in stone. I believe I heard someone cite a technical reason for the cap. No worries, we're a clever and resourceful lot, we'll find a way to make this work.


Shot

[Ssnake]

What maybe not even the current beta testers and mission designers may have fully realized is the impact of SB Pro modelling the different ammo storage locations. You no longer have full 40 rounds magazines. You will be running out of ammo after 15 rounds (17 in the M1 respectively), forcing you to fight battles of lower intensity (or allowing an OpFor to saturate your defenses), and to pay a lot of attention to regular ammo redistribution.

We took out simplifications in several areas, so you are going to spend more time on these individual tasks. This is going to show in the play style, I think.

[Poker]

Ssnake it correct ... I tried playing an old test bed scenario that consumes ammo rapidly .. I was mauled !

[Hell_Hound]

Those of us who average much less than 15 shots from a tank before being killed, will be unaffected. :)

[TopKick]

Why would the M1 run out of ammo after 17 rounds when the ammo is stored in the bustle? I could understand if the some of the ammo was stored in the hull that would require traversing the turret to dig out ammo and place in ready racks. Is there a partition in the bustle seperating the ammo into compartments? I've never been in an M1 and this is new to me. Nevertheless, can not the loader access the ammo between emgagements or slow periods while on the move or not?

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Ref the ammo avail and what you want to load next, keep in mind that there may now be 4 types of ammo stored in the racks. So if your APFSDS is only 10 or 12 rounds / HESH is 10 rounds / Spec #1 ?rds / Spec #2 ?rds You can run out of your desired type rather quickly.
This will lead to players / commanders becoming VERY keen on what they shoot at and what they let go by. For a better shot later and / or not the tgt type they are ordered to engage. (Target identification and selection will become critical)
With the new terrain engine, spotting and engaging targets WILL be more difficult, so gentlemen "Know your Enemy, and what they drive".

Note to Topkick: The Gunner will always be scanning for tgt's and the turret cage has only 3 openings in it. Soooo if you want to try to reach thru the/an opening while its moving and grab the base clip to extract a round while going cross country..... I'll call for medievac now and save you some time. Even stopped the cage will still be moving, and with the Leo the turret must be over the rear right fender (5:30 position) to get at the hull storage, NOT a good tactical position for the turret to be.

More later ..... 9erRed

[dejawolf]

yes, the M1 ammo compartment is separated into 2 bustles. one is the ready rack, directly behind the loader, the other is the semi ready rack, behind the commander. each of these compartments has it's own sliding blast door.

when loading from the semi ready rack, to the ready rack, the TC and loader first has to close the ready rack, open the semi ready rack, take out a round, close the semi ready rack, open the ready rack, and shove the new round in. repeat.

this is very slow, compared to hull ammunition stowage. the advantage is that the gunner can continue to engage targets with the coax while the ammunition is being loaded, and all the stuff that goes boom is stored safely.

in comparison, the leopard has to traverse it's turret into position, to give the loader free access to the ammunition compartment. however, it's much faster, since the loader can drag the rounds directly from the hull stowage into the secure turret bustle.

[TopKick]

9erRedNote to Topkick: The Gunner will always be scanning for tgt's and the turret cage has only 3 openings in it. Soooo if you want to try to reach thru the/an opening while its moving and grab the base clip to extract a round while going cross country..... I'll call for medievac now and save you some time. Even stopped the cage will still be moving, and with the Leo the turret must be over the rear right fender (5:30 position) to get at the hull storage, NOT a good tactical position for the turret to be.

Turret cage? In the above quote you are talking about the Leo, Right? I understand about the Leo because it has hull ammo storage and that the turret must be traversed to get to it before it can be placed in the ready racks. The same setup was used on all the older US tanks. Do all the newer Leos also have hull storage?



dejawolf yes, the M1 ammo compartment is separated into 2 bustles. one is the ready rack, directly behind the loader, the other is the semi ready rack, behind the commander. each of these compartments has it's own sliding blast door.

when loading from the semi ready rack, to the ready rack, the TC and loader first has to close the ready rack, open the semi ready rack, take out a round, close the semi ready rack, open the ready rack, and shove the new round in. repeat.

That setup sucks! You mean that the Loader can't load the main gun directly from the semi ready rack behind the TC? They have to open and close the doors twice when moving one round from one rack to the other? I suppose then that the M1 has to stop to accomplish this? Sounds like a prime condition for Murphy's Law in the making!

[dejawolf]

yes, all the leopards has the front hull storage on the left of the driver, even the leopard 1. however, the leopard 1 has the ready rounds stored vertically in front of him, to the left of the gun.

the leopard 2 has this ammunition stored in a secure bustle, like the M1 ready rack.

[Bluewings]

Just one word to say : Autoloader :wink: .

<----- Some good Tanks have one ! :lol:

Cheers . :3starSK:

[sbrocker8]

Didn't the US and Germany shy away from autoloaders because they figured too much could go wrong??? This is a pretty logical approach considering technology only sucks when you REALLY need it in a crunch!

[dejawolf]

:shock: then why in lards name did the US stick thermal imagers, laser range finders, and powered traverse into the tank in the first place? nay, too much to go wrong, better do it the old fashioned way: manual hand cranks and stadiametric range finders. and hmm, that engine looks too damn techy, lets put some horses in there instead, and what have you, an infallible MBT!

[TankHunter]

:shock: then why in lards name did the US stick thermal imagers, laser range finders, and powered traverse into the tank in the first place? nay, too much to go wrong, better do it the old fashioned way: manual hand cranks and stadiametric range finders. and hmm, that engine looks too damn techy, lets put some horses in there instead, and what have you, an infallible MBT!

Well Deja, if the auto loader takes a dump on you, aren’t you quite thoroughly screwed? :?

[Chaplain]

:shock: then why in lards name did the US stick thermal imagers, laser range finders, and powered traverse into the tank in the first place? nay, too much to go wrong, better do it the old fashioned way: manual hand cranks and stadiametric range finders. and hmm, that engine looks too damn techy, lets put some horses in there instead, and what have you, an infallible MBT!

Well Deja, if the auto loader takes a dump on you, aren’t you quite thoroughly screwed? :?

I think the point is that sbrocker8's comment implied that autoloaders were rejected because too much COULD go wrong. That would be a fear of complexity in-and-of-itself, and DW points out how horribly complex modern tanks are already. Therefore, to assume a simple fear of complexity on the army's part doesn't make much sense.

On the other hand, if the US and German armies determined that autoloaders are inherently unreliable, while things like TIS (which IS used) are complex yet very reliable, that would be a different story. Maybe sbrocker8 meant to say that, but it didn't come out that way if he did.

[PS-SCUD]

On the other hand, if the US and German armies determined that autoloaders are inherently unreliable, while things like TIS (which IS used) are complex yet very reliable, that would be a different story. Maybe sbrocker8 meant to say that, but it didn't come out that way if he did.

Perhaps they decided it was an unnecessary complexity. If your gunner could see in the dark, you wouldn't use a TIS. The loader is perfectly capable of doing the machine's job.

"The loader, a mighty man is he,
With large and sinewy hands;
And the muscles of his brawny arms
Are strong as iron bands." :lol:

[Ssnake]

The question often is, at which point does the benefit of an autoloader exceed the benefit of having a human loader. For example, if the cartridhe weight starts to exceed what can comfortablz be handeled by human force (which is believed to happen beyond a caliber of 140mm with single cartridge ammo), it would make sense to switch over to a mechanical device.

For the Russians, they had fairly restrictive requirements as far as firepower and mobility were concerned. The firepower demand called for a 125mm caliber, and since they couldn't come up with a cheap and reliable engine that would deliver more than 900 horsepowers, they had to limit the weight of the tank. Consequently, you save a lot of weight with an autoloader because the internal volume of the turret shrinks, and hence the amount of armor material required to protect said internal volume. With a third turret crew member, they would have needed to make the turret bigger, heavier, and therefore fail the mobility requirements for the tank. In this situation, the benefits of the autoloader outweighed its drawbacks, e.g. the increased complexity. Western engineers, facing similarly restrictive demands, would have opted for an autoloader as well.

[NEpi]

also, strangely enough, loading the gun is only one of the loader's responsibilities.
it's another pair of hands fixing stuff, one that is priceless sometimes.

[Ssnake]

Yea, but that's primarily a question of force organization and doctrine.

[TankHunter]

:shock: then why in lards name did the US stick thermal imagers, laser range finders, and powered traverse into the tank in the first place? nay, too much to go wrong, better do it the old fashioned way: manual hand cranks and stadiametric range finders. and hmm, that engine looks too damn techy, lets put some horses in there instead, and what have you, an infallible MBT!

Well Deja, if the auto loader takes a dump on you, aren’t you quite thoroughly screwed? :?

I think the point is that sbrocker8's comment implied that autoloaders were rejected because too much COULD go wrong. That would be a fear of complexity in-and-of-itself, and DW points out how horribly complex modern tanks are already. Therefore, to assume a simple fear of complexity on the army's part doesn't make much sense.

On the other hand, if the US and German armies determined that autoloaders are inherently unreliable, while things like TIS (which IS used) are complex yet very reliable, that would be a different story. Maybe sbrocker8 meant to say that, but it didn't come out that way if he did.

But the thing is that you can still kill stuff with your TIS, GPS, Ball. comp etc ad infinium gone, but if you have an auto loader and that is taken out of action for one reason or another isn’t it safe to say that you cant load another round into the main gun? You can still fight with out the other stuff but can you with a jammed auto loader? That is my point.

[dejawolf]

well, the T-72 has a manual handcrank if the autoloader fails, and the autoloader is located in the turret rear, so small chances of striking it. additionally, there's various rounds stored around the turret and hull interior that can be manually loaded into the breech. yes, it's slower, but better than nothing.
the leclerc has a revolver like magazine in the front hull, acessed from the gunners side, i guess if the autoloader fails, the gunner can traverse the turret, take a round from there, and ram it into the breech manually. but the autoloader itself has to be reloaded frem the outside.
but you wouldn't want to stick a piece of equipment into the tank that regularly fails, would you? you'd make sure it run as well as possible, with as low a failure rate as possible, before putting it in.

frequent jamming is an issue that should be ironed out during development.
you wouldn't want to drive a car that stopped every 5th mile, or with wheels that just "fell off" in a sharp turn...

[ShotMagnet]

On the other hand, you wouldn't want to train up a fourth member for an AFV crew, teach that one how to live and work and fight in a tank, just so that the one can feed the gun.

I recognize the advantages of having a fourth person in a tank, my personal view is that having a fourth crewmember is better than having another piece of equipment.

This is a design philosophy question, though. It's also a reflection of doctrine, and as well at least a partial solution to the problem of shrinking military funding. An autoloader is way cheaper than a living, breathing loader.


Shot

[Bluewings]

The Leclerc has an Autoloader for 2 reasons , both being part of the Design .
The Tank is built to fight on the move and fast (that 's an understatement :) ) , so an Autoloader will do a much better job than a human and faster , for as long as it is needed . An Autoloader does not get tired :) . Imagine a human asked to load rounds while the tank is doing 50km/h off road , rarely stopping . He would probably injured himself by banging into things and could not keep up the Leclerc 's rate of fire , up to 10 rounds/minute . The man would actually put the Tank 's performance down .
Also , it keeps the turret small and low .

Cheers . :3starSK:

[Sean]

All these arguments have been made in the past, a tank will run out of ammo before a human will get tired of loading the rounds. :-)

[Bluewings]

Sean I repeat again , it is not only about getting tired .

Imagine a human asked to load rounds while the tank is doing 50km/h off road , rarely stopping . He would probably injured himself by banging into things and could not keep up the Leclerc 's rate of fire , up to 10 rounds/minute

That 's why .
Why do you think the Leclerc 's 3 crew Members have a safety belt ? :wink:
I 'm not doing a pissing contest here , but reminding you what that Tank is all about : Speed .

Anyone who has been in a Tank going very fast off-road knows you can 't stand without holding something or you 're gonna get throw against things .
The only soft part in a Tank is you . :?

Cheers . :3starSK:

[Sean]

I've never been a loader in a m1 BW, have you? I don't know how rough it is to load on the move, but I think they somehow manage.

[Bluewings]

No , never been in a M1 neither :( . (I wish :) )

But you 're right here : they somehow manage.

Yes . Somehow ..... manage .

(not good enough for the Leclerc :mrgreen: )

Cheers . :3starSK:

[TopKick]

With US tanks, the human loader is a Legacy feature. Have you ever had to fire your tank at attacking enemy forces when your engine was sitting on the ground behind the tank and the batteries pulled out for maintenance? I have. With a platoon of tanks firing every machine gun and pumping out Canister (beehive) rounds, or HE, the attack didn't last long. I guess if your tank has an auxiliary power unit you could continue the fight. And I don’t know which of the current main battle tanks have them, or if they could be started without electrical power. I've never been a sitation where the Loader couldn't "manage" to continue loading.

I don't know if US tanks are still able to do this, but prior to the M1 they could continue to engage the enemy after all power was lost, even in the dead of nigh with no electrical, or hydraulic power. The range finder, computer, and sights would still work. Firing speed was limited to how fast the loader could hump the ammo and how fast the gunner could traverse manually.

However, having a forth man on the tank helps with the work load. Who else you gonna send out to man an OP, or make a run to the nearest Gasthaus for beer if not the Loader?

[Bluewings]

You made some good points here Topkick ! :)

I forgot about the beer ... :?
Leclerc has APU .

Fighting when the engine sits behind the Tank ! :shock:
That 's a "fucking" situation ! :lol:
"Driver , push left to the ridge !" :mrgreen:

Cheers . :3starSK:

[Dealer31]

The M1 series can still engage targets without vehicle power present. There are manual handles to move the turret and a manual firing handle ("the master blaster") that when cranked will send enough juice to fire a main gun round. Ammunition can still be accessed by manually opening the ammunition doors.

As for the question of aux power systems, there were several versions for the M1 series. One kind could be started using the tanks batteries or if the tank's batteries were dead, there was a manual starting chord that one could pull on (just like on a lawnmower) to start the APU. The problem we had with the APUs on our M1A1Ds (with FBCB2) was that the APU was not powerful enough to support running the FBCB2 and the turret power at the same time. You'd have to start your engine frequently, defeating the purpose of the APU.

[12Alfa]

We seen to forget just how important that 4th man is. Most of us here who have had field time know that these machines take a lot of work, Cutting the crew down to 3 is fine in peace time, but after long periods in the field the crew does suffer. Now some here can say this is not so because of this and because of that, bottom line the AFV still requires fixing and maintance, the crew has other duties as well. 4 men are the minimun we need, 3 will just wear down the crew, and then the fireteam, and then the tp/plt sooner.

There is a reason for the crews we have, if 3 were best with auto loader in western tanks we would have had them long ago with goverements looking to save every penney they could.

The Russians get away with it because of the simple design and a very large maintance trail behind the AFV's, and the VERY large tank force, they got plenty to carry on if a few break down.

I'm not knocking the Leclerc, just shows how 1 nation looks at how they can operate their MBT's in conditions they have, and what they see as their operating enviroment. They see there tanks used in a limited way where they will get down time to do what we all do, but just more of it for longer, away from the operation .

Could they operate in conditions like the M1 in Iraq? Well the desert is unforgiving in the best of times with 4 man crews, so I'm not going to sign up on a Leclerk crew anytime soon, LOL

Still a beautifull lookin machine, mine is in the mail, can't wait.

[dejawolf]

whats really interesting, is that the swedish strv 103 (aka S-tank)
has an autoloader, and is also operated by a crew of 3.
and i guess sweden isn't known for being a country with large resources.

[12Alfa]

Yes, but they were not going to move in operations outside their country, thous I think the need for a maintance trail, and without a turret there would be a drop in some of the work I would think.
I love that tank, my next project.

[NEpi]

BW, good loaders know HOW to bump into things. they can get quite good at that too ;)

the time you love your loader the most is when you throw a track.

[Volcano]

Well, everything has a trade off. Yes the M1 series tank takes longer to cross load ammo from semi ready rack to the ready rack when compared to other tanks but what causes this inconvenience is also why the crew is much safer from ammo explosions than other tanks.

So it all depends on how you look at it. The M1 gunner can at least still scan and fire coax while crossloading is going on where as the Leopard series that has the excess ammo stored in the hull must traverse over back from what I am told. On the other hand they cross load much faster but are more vulnerable too because this is what causes the turret to fly off from an explosion.

In regards to an autoloader, it is quite simple really. The US will never adopt an autoloader on a tank because too much doctrine is based around the four man crew and the loader in regards to security (LP/OP duties and the extra set of eyes for air guard and such). In addition to his duties of feeding the maingun, he also must: operate the radios, help with maintenance, conduct LP / OPs, remove his promask to test the air after the 256 kit, fetch water, run out commo wire for the land line into the 1780, jump out to fuel the tank at a hot fuel LOGPAC, download refuse, bear the butt of all the crews jokes, and of course... refill the GOTT cooler in the bustle rack. Show me an autoloader do all of that and I will take it.

[sbrocker8]

Damn, Volcano. Sounds like a lot of duties. Now could you explain all of that in layman's terms???

Also, I'm thinking of joining the (US) Army and going into tanks, any suggestions on how to prepare?

[TopKick]

Buy lots of life insurance.

[PS-SCUD]

Here are links to all the information you'll ever need.

http://usmilitary.about.com // Great resource for finding information on different branches.
http://forums.military.com // Military forums to answer your questions.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/index.html // Army Policies, FMs, etc.
http://www.apft.net // PT
http://www.armydep.com // Delayed Entry Program
http://www.globemaster.de/regabbre.html // Military acronyms
http://basic.armystudyguide.com // BCT Study guide
http://armydep.com/prebct/index.html // DEP Pre basic training task list.
http://www.armybasic.org // Another BCT Study guide.
http://www.ncoteam.org

[PS-SCUD]

Also,

How is your height/weight? Within standards?
How is that knee injury? Does it limit your flexibility or mobility? How serious was it?
Any drug or alchohol use?
Any allergies?

Here are the pre-screening medical forms that you can look through.

http://usmilitary.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.dior.whs.mil/forms/DD2807%2D1.PDF
http://usmilitary.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.dior.whs.mil/forms/DD2807%2D2.PDF

Are you planning on enlisting, then going through OCS? Perhaps you should look into the Green to Gold program.

Have you talked with a recruiter?

[sbrocker8]

Green to gold is out unless I get some college out of the way first because of my HS GPA. I've talked to the recruiters and they said that since there was no surgery needed, and all indications are that the problem has cleared up, I can enlist. Yes, the plan is for OCS after OSUT and whatever time in a unit I need to get my OCS packet through. I'm definitely within height/weight standards and I just need to train back to my former glory (I was running a 6 minute mile and about a 14 minute 2 mile about 2 years ago after training for about 3 months for drill team in Civil Air Patrol).

Past experimentation in pot and alcohol which the recruiters said to just not talk about. The recruiters pretty much want me in cause I got something like the second highest ASVAB score in the state when I took it, so they've been telling me if it's not on record, it never happenned, lol.

[fxman249]

Sbrocker8 - The Army's Green to Gold program is not a bad deal, it is an ROTC program that upon completion of your bachelor's degree you are commssioned as a 2LT. During your college, you go through Basic, AIT, OCS, etc and learn your Army skill at the same time you get a degree that can help when you ETS. Personally though, I prefer starting out as enlisted and working my way up, then just get OCS when you qualify for a slot.

If you start out from the bottom, you'll have first-hand experience in every tanker position, and will have more respect and knowledge of how your tank crew works together as a team, and will better understand what each person's tasks are more than if you were just put through OCS right at the start. Plus if you wore stripes before brass, your crew will have more respect for you in a way. As an Infantryman, I declined to go to West Point just for that reason, I wanted to work my way up and decide at a later time if I really wanted the commission or not. I actually liked being enlisted, as I worked up my rank I was giving orders to my team, but also had a role in the actions and not just giving the orders and watching others follow them out.

If you haven't been there already, you should check out http://www.goarmy.com/JobDetail.do?id=48, it has all the basic info about the job of 19K.


Regarding the original post about will SB1 survive after the release of SB2, I think it will indeed. I have many PC games that are old and outdated, but I still play them because they held a special interest. SB2 will require much more powerful PC's, something that many people will not have the funds to upgrade to for a while. I have a few games that are now updated with new versions, but I still play the old ones too because sometimes my good PC farts out on me, or I just feel like dusting off the old CD case and checking it out. I think that after SB2 has been out a while, and most of us can finally afford a system to run it smoothly, then it shouldn't be a problem because you'll still see the same old faces plus many new ones.

SB1 isn't new, and there are other games out there with better graphics or other features that when combined can make SB1 look like Pong. But I keep coming back to SB1 because it gave me so much entertainment for the past few years, and I'm not about ready to forget about that. A little secret...I still play M1 Tank Platoon on my old 486 sometimes, just for kicks. I have not seen any other tank sims out there that come close to SB1, even the newer games. This game just has so many features and details that the others lack, even if the graphics of SB1 are lower or what ever. How many others here still play the original Grand Theft Auto, even though GTA3 is 100x better? Just some things have a "nostalgia factor". Look at those game packs for the PC and new consoles, filled with the old Atari classics. With all the new technologies we have, people are still playing Pong, Asteroids, etc. for a reason. And while SB1 will surely not be anything near comparison to Pong, I think you get my point.

"Good games don't die, they just get repackaged." ;)

[Homer]

I still have my pong game :)

[sbrocker8]

I already said that based on the requirements to go straight into Green to Gold, I don't qualify. I plan on going to OCS as soon as I can get a slot.

[Malakie]

Hi:

I noticed no one brought up the loading capability of Israels new tank.. WHat does it carry? 60+ rounds or so plus 8 man platoon etc etc. I wonder if this tank will be in future versions of Steel Beasts... Maybe expansion packs for other countries would be a possibility?! Then we could have a truly World War III scenario!

Malakie

[Bluewings]

Hi malakie ,

Good idea . You go to Israel and ask them for all the needed data to make a Merkava 4 .

Oh ! Thanks for that . :wink:

Cheers . :3starSK:

[sbrocker8]

Arent they being extremely secretive about their tanks? Hence BW's comments?

[stuart666]

Arent they being extremely secretive about their tanks? Hence BW's comments?

secretive isnt the word. There is only one Merkava1 im a museum outside Israel, In France, and that ones been gutted and welded shut. A guy I know on Tanknet once got into trouble for taking photos of an Israeli APC based upon a T55 :roll:

Personally, I think it would be easier to impliment a Martian Tripod :wink:

[PS-SCUD]

That's pretty funny when you contrast it to the U.S., where doctrine, tactics, and specifications are available for download over the internet.

[Malakie]

Hi malakie ,

Good idea . You go to Israel and ask them for all the needed data to make a Merkava 4 .

Oh ! Thanks for that . :wink:

Cheers . :3starSK:

Actually Military.com had a VERY extensive article about the latest Merkava tank, its firepower, electronics, capabilities and such. That is how I knew it is the first and only main battle tank to have the capability to carry 8 fully equipped combat soldiers without any loss of capability.

You should be able to find the article on Military.com should you want to read about it and see some pics.

[Trekker]

To make a simulated modell on the Merkava would need much more information then that. Like the armour thickness, the density, the FCS and so on. No problem just making a mod built on one of the existing vehicles with just the merk look. But i know Ssnake and the boys have higher standards then that..

[Bluewings]

What Trekker said .

Don 't wanna go into details , but if someone can get us pictures and videos taken from the gunner POW using all available optics as well as accurate datas about the FCS and the main gun/ammos it would be nice .
Then we 'll need Armor values , including but not restricted to composition , density , Numbers of layers , thickness .
Then we 'll need engine caracteristics , power , torque as well as gearbox datas . Some infos are needeed about the tracks as well to be able to determinate the grip on different surfaces .

We 'll need to know about any active/passive onboard defenses and datas about the Battle Management System .

I 'm sure I forgot something ..... :roll:

Cheers . :3starSK:

[dejawolf]

you forgot the location of various interior equipment and ammunition storages.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Please keep in mind that the required info nessesary for bringing that specific piece of equipment into the SB world is Restricted and Classified "Secret". Therefore any attempt to acquire it or release the info. would / will lead to an investigation and possiable / most likely arrest.

And with the current situation there now ... NOT a very smart thing to attempt. Just look at the time and trouble thats happened getting the non-restricted info for the British Challanger, and its still going on. I would suggest (IMO) that looking at the 1st or 2nd versions / generations of that vehicle platform might be somewhat less risky to your future / freedom. Even that info is still kept "Restricted", but might prove to be better accessable for the upper echelon of E-Sim. (IMO)

All for now ..... Stay safe ..... 9erRed

[Bluewings]

Sorry Deja ... :oops:

(I knew I was missing something :mad2: )

:lol: :wink:

Cheers . :3starSK:

[ashdivay]

even more then multiplayer games the thing i loved most in SB1is making maps and the realistic physics and ballastics ,! for this i will continu to cherish this game for years to come!
Regards
ASH

[NEpi]

i have a solution: take a leo, and use a Merkava skin for it.
the only persons that will know the difference can't talk about it anyway.

info security in IDF is pretty strict, when it comes to equipment. i'm not sure the data for the retired Sho't is possible to obtain.

[TankHunter]

even more then multiplayer games the thing i loved most in SB1is making maps and the realistic physics and ballastics ,! for this i will continu to cherish this game for years to come!
Regards
ASH

Hey Ash, how come I never see you in MP? :?

[Lone*star49]

even more then multiplayer games the thing i loved most in SB1is making maps and the realistic physics and ballastics ,! for this i will continu to cherish this game for years to come!
Regards
ASH

Hey Ash, how come I never see you in MP? :?
...

My guess is that Ash's location, India, makes it hard for across the pond connections to hold up, and his MP is of the local nature..


LS

[stuart666]

you forgot the location of various interior equipment and ammunition storages.

And where to do they stash the bagels, and hang the furry star of david :wink:

[TankHunter]

even more then multiplayer games the thing i loved most in SB1is making maps and the realistic physics and ballastics ,! for this i will continu to cherish this game for years to come!
Regards
ASH

Hey Ash, how come I never see you in MP? :?
...

My guess is that Ash's location, India, makes it hard for across the pond connections to hold up, and his MP is of the local nature..


LS

I would guess that some of the comp geeks here can come up with something to allow for him to go toe to toe with us Americans.

[chrisotto]

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deleted - post unnecessary

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[Hell_Hound]

Deleted - smartass remark no longer pertinent

[TankHunter]

As of last year, "Bring it on" has political connotations. Please delete your post. :P

LOL HH

[Horus]

would if i could but i can't

[Horus]

And as if by magic, it is gone...

[ashdivay]

even more then multiplayer games the thing i loved most in SB1is making maps and the realistic physics and ballastics ,! for this i will continu to cherish this game for years to come!
Regards
ASH

Hey Ash, how come I never see you in MP? :?
...

My guess is that Ash's location, India, makes it hard for across the pond connections to hold up, and his MP is of the local nature..


LS

I would guess that some of the comp geeks here can come up with something to allow for him to go toe to toe with us Americans.

I came on MP several times when i discovered SB then i was located in a place with DSL connection now i am in a small town which has no DSL and not to mention i am busy as hell with work.
Regards
ASH