When entering a MP game [Archive] - STEELBEASTS.COM FORUM

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Dagger

03-09-2003, 02:08 AM

I think with all the new people running about, this needs addressed agian.

it is good to shut down everything not needed. You only need to run what your connected to the internet with (Explorer for me) and Systray then open SB and enter the game. If your not sure if you have something running in the back ground simply hit "Ctrl+Alt+Delete" and see. You can turn those items off and it will improve the proformace of the game.(<< ie: no lag)

Mpat120

03-09-2003, 03:42 AM

Pay attn, to the message bar, someone may be trying to say somthing, ignore it at your peril, even the Vets do this, including me :casstet:

Dagger

03-13-2003, 09:54 PM

Here is something that happen in a game Last night(no names, those that where there know) someone shot 6 tanks on his own side. :casstet:
A: Learn to tell the Difference between the M1 and Leo!...in both TIS(GPS) view and Auxiliary sight(GAS)(hint: M1 has a .50 cal. MG on top of the turrent...something else that helps is different camo skins) there are vehicle identification scenarios out there..please get one...no one likes getting fratted!
B: Learn to hand off units to other people. (right click on unit to be transfered..at the bottem of the list it says "GIVE TO")

Dagger

03-14-2003, 02:38 AM

I post this on special requeast:(again no names :D )
http://www.steelbeasts.com/cgi-bin/postdisplay.cgi?forum=Forum1&topic=001747

while I'm at it here are some more.
http://www.steelbeasts.com/cgi-bin/postdisplay.cgi?forum=Forum1&topic=001740 http://www.steelbeasts.com/cgi-bin/postdisplay.cgi?forum=Forum1&topic=001714 http://www.steelbeasts.com/cgi-bin/postdisplay.cgi?forum=Forum1&topic=001718

there is more...look through the old posts...over the years now we have covered about everything SB there is :cool:

Brad_Edmondson

03-14-2003, 06:25 PM

Here is something that happen in a game Last night(no names, those that where there know) someone shot 6 tanks on his own side. :casstet:
[Edited on 13/3/2003 by Dagger]

LMAO! :D

Ok, I've zapped a buddy once or twice in two years but that's a bit extreme for one game. I'm still proud of my 3.6km frat which taught me to look at the damn map when doing recce-by-fire against hot spots ;) (Sorry 12Alfa!)

Common newbie mistake when handing off units:

YOU CAN'T HAND OFF A UNIT THAT YOU ARE CURRENTLY IN! You must jump to another vehicle and then hand off the unit.

Lone*star49

03-14-2003, 08:57 PM

...

Ok.. I'll kick in another 2 cents worth too..

If you join a game and its big.. ie CoA.. CoB.. CoC.. and your new, and someone with more experience/seniority joins your team.. move out of any CO spots to single unit..

(at least make the offer) by means mentioned above.. :thumbup:

That person will share/divide up units with others accordingly.. ;)

Werewolf

03-14-2003, 09:20 PM

Here is something that happen in a game Last night(no names, those that where there know) someone shot 6 tanks on his own side. :casstet:

[Edited on 13/3/2003 by Dagger]

1 is an accident - most of us have bagged at least one friend in the last 3 years
2 is carelessness
3 is stupidity
4 borders on the moronic
5 is sheer meanness

AND

6 IS FUCKING ON PURPOSE - NO ONE IS THAT FREAKING DUMB!

I can't believe his team mates didn't go ballistic after number two and should have started shooting back at number 3 if for no other reason than to save their own asses.

If I was still playing MP and I was the CO of his team (and I've CO'd quite a few) I'd a called arty in on his ass (I did that once), ordered everyone else on his team to blast him and told the other team where he was and said go get 'im.

6 FRATS! Geeeez - See what going retail gets ya! ;)

Lone*star49

03-15-2003, 01:42 AM

Here is something that happen in a game Last night(no names, those that where there know) someone shot 6 tanks on his own side. :casstet:

[Edited on 13/3/2003 by Dagger]

If I was still playing MP and I was the CO of his team (and I've CO'd quite a few) I'd a called arty in on his ass (I did that once), ordered everyone else on his team to blast him and told the other team where he was and said go get 'im.

6 FRATS! Geeeez - See what going retail gets ya! ;)

Lmao WW.. you have such a way with the pen.. :thumbup:

I think 6 is an SB record (glad its not mine).. lol

But I get the feeling that this person is:

1. overconfident..
2. Impatient..

...

PS.. Hey WW, you should join us in some "team" H - H MP.. soon IMHO..

LS ;)

Werewolf

03-15-2003, 03:32 AM

PS.. Hey WW, you should join us in some "team" H - H MP.. soon IMHO..

LS ;)

Thanks LS but you guys all play those monster regimental things now. Too damn big for me and I feel bad joining and just running one platoon out of 3 or 4 companies that need to be controlled. Doesn't feel like I'm doing my share.

If y'all start playing some of the smaller ones out there give me a shout. My ICQ is 111846621. Sometimes I load it sometimes not. I might check in to IRC sometime too - it's all to naught though - even after 3 years I still get my ass handed to me regularly. About the only thing I'm good at is CO'ng and the newer crowd pretty much does what it wants - feels more like a Mechwarrior 4 game (which I like a lot) than an armor sim which is another reason I stopped MP'ng.

Hell_Hound

03-15-2003, 05:00 AM

About the only thing I'm good at is CO'ng and the newer crowd pretty much does what it wants - feels more like a Mechwarrior 4 game (which I like a lot) than an armor sim which is another reason I stopped MP'ng.

Don't let the CO-ing art die...

I'd love to be in a game where one player sits back in the co/A tank, and spends 90% of the game monitoring the map and issuing orders of the "Push south to the ridge at 25 northing, then hold there until arty falls" variety.

The newer generation (myself included) aren't used to it, but I think we'd adapt. Sounds like fun.

Werewolf

03-15-2003, 06:55 PM

[quote]

The newer generation (myself included) aren't used to it, but I think we'd adapt. Sounds like fun.

:) Which is pretty much why I gave up on MP. Being CO is a chore ( the only thing I was good at) but when no one follows the plan, responds to orders or out and out disobeys them (which is OK providing there's a good reason and when there's time they feed that reason back to the CO) then playing is no longer fun.

Playing a game with a CO/XO/Chain of command can be fun if everyone buys into it. Many a time my CO tank would be destroyed or the radio damaged and from that point on no or broken communications from me. It was fun seeing the confusion created until the XO stepped in to take command (which only happened about 1/2 the time for some reason). Playing like that can really give players the feel for what it's like to be part of a company team in real life (close as it can get without actually being there) which is why the army uses SB as a tactical training simulator.

But it only works if everyone agrees to play it straight. Which means when the Captain tells the Lt to go to map coords 145060 and establish a BP and cover the northern approaches he freaking does it. If the situation changes while he's moving to the ordered location he exercises an appropriate level of initiative to protect his unit while still carrying out his commander's orders. He informs the commander of the situation, makes recommendations as appropriate and executes new orders if provided and continues to execute original orders if no new ones are forthcoming (unless by executing them his unit would be destroyed - but then he may be a sacrifical lamb - I'd tell 'em if that was the case but some CO's wouldnt').

2 years ago that style of play was the norm online but once SB went retail - well - so much for that. The newer crop of players think following orders makes them into robots or something but I'd disagree with that. They become truly part of a team and truly commanders of a platoon or company if it's a Bn sized scenario. There is a great deal of initiative and control left to the non commanding player involved in following the directives of the CO.

One of the best CO oriented scenarios around is Breakthrough on the Steppes (which I designed). On the surface it is easy. It pits one M1 company against a retreating Soviet force (AI). The CO makes all the difference. In the many times I played it online I can remember only twice where the humans beat the AI (GS McAmis was CO once and I don't remember who was the other time). But alas those days seem to be gone - more the loss for the new crop of players that will never know the pride of victory as a team but only the pride of "I got more kills than you did - nah-na-nah-na na-nah!"

Another thing that's changed in MP is that at the end of a game we used to hang around and discuss it. What went wrong, what went right. Why did you guys do that or why didn't you respond to that. There was no trash talk and a lot of well done's passed around (and occasionally some good natured ribbing - not trash talk) but now game over and everyone just says GG and hauls ass. Part of the fun of MP is interacting with actual human beings in the game environment. If there is not going to be any interaction during or after the game then one might as well play SP - which is pretty much what I do now.

The current way SB is played online feels to me like an Unreal or Mechwarrior team deathmatch game which is great for Unreal or MW and which I enjoy a great deal but IMO it isn't the most fun way to play Steel Beasts so I don't.

Why the change in style. IMO the folks who bought SB when it was sold online only were older, serving or ex-military and hardcore tank sim enthusiasts. They wanted to recreate the feel of their real life experiences in the game (at least I did). Once SB went retail then most who bought it were buying an action/shooter that just happened to use contempory tanks instead of Cougar Mechs or Fusion Plasma rifles and played it accordingly. The new guys took over and I bailed.

Now if anyone of you new guys would actually like to try an MP game like I've described above let me know and we can give it a shot. It might turn out not to be to your liking or you might be pleasantly surprised.

ShotMagnet

03-16-2003, 07:23 AM

WW,

I'd love to give MP a try; what's been holding me back is my indifferent gunnery, and the downer it would be to get into an MP game, do something substandard, and have to wear the pointed hat because.
If I knew that the game would go as you outlined, I'd be at least tempted. Watching a plan unfold, or get blown to Hell, is in my estimation one of those things that makes a game of any sort fun.
That said, practicality says that I'd have to hold off on MP until I upgrade my machine and get an ISP connection that runs faster than 26K. If it happens, I'd love to give MP a shot. It looks like it could be a hoot.

Shot

3Star

03-16-2003, 09:29 AM

I am so used to playing as Leo, on the rare occasions I've been in an Abrams, I've found myself engaging M1s without my consciously thinking about it. At this point 'Abrams = target, kill it!"

Fortunately, not being totally used to the FCS, I usually miss.

NTM

Brad_Edmondson

03-16-2003, 09:00 PM

Lone*star49

03-17-2003, 12:52 AM

Werewolf said a mouthfull.

Have to agree on all fronts. I'm not on-line as much as I'd like, but I'd say that when I am within the last year I've seen the degredation in team skills that WW discusses. Effective leadership and a plan coming together are great to see in action, but it's becoming pretty rare.
...

Well, yes.. and no.. :yltype:

------------
A tip for the folks who want the abuse of being a game CO:

Proper
Planning
Prevents
Piss
Poor
Performance

Seeing how things have changed, I'm at the point now where I refuse to CO a game unless I've had a chance to write up my graphics and orders in advance. I create text with unit orders along the map margins so that any player can glance at where he fits in the 'big picture.' This includes CO intent, artillery plan, scheme of maneuver, etc. It forms the baseline to at least get the show on the road and adapt from there. The tradeoff is that it has to be done in advance and is time consuming.
...

And here-in lays the problem.. :casstet:

-------------------------
Food for thought.

Ok.. my 2 cents worth.. (meaning no dis-respect)..

I see it two ways: one is that if your "military".. sure you would like to do it by the book.. etc.. but you said it.. takes "lot's of time"

And some (most) of us are just "civi's".. learnin from many real pro's as we go.. and from what I've experienced and "seen".. just stay away from the battlezone for just one week (or longer) and you become real - rusty.. and it shows big..

Two.. Most of us don't have the time to map, etc, BUT.. we do study the maps (before and for longer times.. after in AAR.. which gives great intell on BP's for both sides.. possible attack routes and artty strikes to counter such.. and we get sharper in each scenario we battle..

I think when you constantly battle Vets, and the newbies, you get "change" and have to adapt to such .. with great success for the "feel" when one comes to a "new" map.. As opposed to just SP.. and avoiding M-P because of style-crowding..

If one was constant in M-P, you would meet and become used to fellow M-P players styles and tactics (which in my book, includes very good communitcations before, and during game-play for what I've seen over the last year).. it may not be "pure military" or by the book.. but we're winning the battles .. time and time again.. (with some brutal loses as well..) but it all ADDS up to Experience "in the field"..

I don't think anyone can get "better" by either playing just SP or M-P but in a "closed type battle..( same players)..

I think that "quick battle plans" are part of the real picture, in that things change fast in real wars, and many a CO in the field had to adpat and move damm quick.. and this is what we're doing in as much as we meet, go to game, decided who goes where, hand out units, artty priority calls, and watch a changing map and listen and "hear" calls for help, target calls, need tanks, etc.. damm busy and rewarding in my book.. and everyone is contributing to this for the most part.. (and helping newbies as well)

Hell, we all had to start out on one foot too...

May not be the "perfect team" game anymore, but damm FUN..

Come out and meet the world..

Take it for what its worth.. IMHO

LS ;)

sabre

03-17-2003, 02:41 AM

Werewolf

03-17-2003, 03:09 PM

Well, WW sign me up! You say when and where and I'll join. :cool:

I'm a Danish officer, but quite new to the MP-gaming of SB (only been there twice - got my ... licked both times). :casstet:

Loooking forward for your reply.

Peter

Games like I described need at least 3 guys per side to get the feel for playing as part of a company team (I fondly remember games with 8 to 12 guys in them). Less than 3 guys per side is OK but not optimum. If we're playing the AI then at least three and preferably 5 is needed for the feel of a company team.

If you can round up another 2or 3guys I'd be happy to play co-op (human vs AI) - I'll even host. If you can round up 4 or 5 we could do a Human v Human game.

The caveat is that both sides need a CO, XO if possible and 1 each platoon leader (though the CO can take a platoon if necessary). Everyone has to role play it like they were platoon leader, XO or CO in a company and behave accordingly.

The key is the role play part. That's what makes the kind of game I described the most fun. I'll take any role - my preference is platoon leader but I'll CO (I can put graphics and orders out pretty quick) if that is what y'all would like.

Let me know. I can play most evenings (USA-Central Standard Time) and anytime on the weekends. We can meet up on the SB IRC channel.

Hell_Hound

03-17-2003, 05:55 PM

Brad_Edmondson

03-17-2003, 10:48 PM

Hellhound,

I remember in the 'good ol' days' that it was a combination of speedy typing and graphics. I played a lot of games on RW, but a lot of guys had cheap mics and communication sounded like:

"What?"
"Repeat, over?"
"Who shot who in the what now?!"

LS,

I think it boils down to different strokes for different folks in how best to enjoy the game. There's enough armchair generals like me to put together plans. I finally got on for a couple of games Friday night and had a great time. Damn I envy you guys who get to play every night. But I saw that little has changed. The maps showed the same line of dead vehicles right across the middle of the map where sides clashed. Mostly every man for himself as sides defended and attacked along the entire length of the map. It was fun but not quite my cup of tea.

Regarless, I got to extract revenge on Poker after these long months of stewing over his defacing my tank :cool: LOL!

bad_cayuse

03-18-2003, 12:52 AM

ww what youre talking about sounds great to me. I get my ass handed to me in mp but if yall could use a fair gunner or tc i'm on it. I look forward to seeing you on line.

Werewolf

03-18-2003, 01:19 AM

This week's insane for me and I'm out of town all weekend, but count me in.

I suggest we start out against the AI, something conservative in size like the single-player version of Commander's Test. Then when we do horribly the first couple times and get butchered like cattle, we can get it over with quickly and get into the next attempt. ;)

In "the old days" when you did this with 8-12 guys, did you typically use voice comms? Or was the CO doing this :yltype: at breakneck speed?

[Edited on 17/3/2003 by Hell_Hound]

I never much cared for RW and was one of those :yltype: guys. The problem with typing in orders or doing other comms was that in the heat of battle they tend to get missed (talk about frustration - but I can imagine that happening IRL too).

Archangel on the other hand was a RW kind of guy.

RW works but eats Bandwidth which is why I never cared for it plus the sound quality is pretty bad (maybe I never set it up right). Battlecom used less BW and sounded a whole lot better and had a built in standalone server but it never caught on for some reason.

For typed comms to work people just have to get usee to listening for the squelch sound and glancing down at the message area regularly.

Werewolf

03-18-2003, 01:21 AM

ww what youre talking about sounds great to me. I get my ass handed to me in mp but if yall could use a fair gunner or tc i'm on it. I look forward to seeing you on line.

I'll tell y'all what. I'll try to be online in the SB IRC channel around 8PM CST on Wednesday. We can try to setup a human vs AI game.

Brad_Edmondson

03-18-2003, 03:08 AM

You know, I never once understood anything Archangel said on RW. Don't know if it was his mic or connection, but it was either broken up, distorted or he sounded like he had marbles in his mouth. Deadeye was clear as a bell though.

1st CDN seems to be lucky in that we've been mostly problem free using RW, even with massive games and guys on dial-up. I think the bandwidth hogging claims are a myth, at least in our experience.

Or maybe the internet connections are better up here, like the beer :D

Hell_Hound

03-18-2003, 04:38 AM

Crap - I'm almost always busy on Wednesdays. :casstet:

But will be watching eagerly for the next opportunity. :D