the bradley discussion

[taskforce-panther]

as far as that thread went it got crazy my oppinion is that the bradley is nuthing more than a thin skinned dust making purple heart box on tracks, theyre not the best thing around and as far as SB goes i hate em, the purpose of one is for rapid transportation of troops, protect the troops and designed to engage infantry. they fitted them with the TOW2 missile silos on the turret for the purpose of defending against heavier armor but this idea of a stand alone vehicle is totally taken outta proportion. its not a stand alone vehicle by no means!!!!!!! sure a tow can take out a t72 a t80 t 69 t55 or whatever but in actual combat you will ALMOST NEVER see one just get ballsy and go toe to toe with a tank. Besides that isnt it the tank platoons duty to spearhead the advance???? ie seen them in combat i dont wanna be in one personally but if u used the brad as a rear defense instead of a frontal attack vehicle then yer odds will be greater...........


http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m2.htm

[Bluewings]

From your link :
The mission of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle [BFV] is to provide mobile protected transport of an infantry squad to critical points on the battlefield and to perform cavalry scout missions. The BFVS will also provide overwatching fires to support dismounted infantry and to suppress or defeat enemy tanks and other fighting vehicles

Using the Brad as an "armored Taxi" for the grunts is only a part of its job . A well employed platoon of Brads hidden in a nice flanking position can wipe out 2 platoons of enemy Tanks in no time . Remember that the Troopers onboard have theirs own portable ATGMs too .
Pro PE will demonstrate fully the "Sting" of the Brad ...

Cheers . :3starSK:

[SFViper19D]

Hey Panther, Brads aren't supposed to go head to head with tanks intentionally. While the 1st Cav Division is currently under some reorganization this is how we were set up. I came out of 1-7 Cav this year and prior to Iraq we trained for the traditional cold war era force on force battle.

If you look up the 1st Cav online you will see that they are made up primarily of 3 combat brigades using tanks and mech infantry, an artillery brigade, a recce brigade and the rest being support units, etc. If I left out any try to remember I am going off the top of my head at the moment so please indulge. I was in the 4th brigade, the recce brigade, where we had 1-7 and two units of blackhawks, 1-227 and 2-227. 1-7 was designed as a divisional recon asset to be used in advance of the primary combat brigades to provide intel and anti-recon protection. We had three troops of intermixed scouts (in M3A3's), tankers (in M1A2 SEP's) and mortars (in 1064's). We also had air assets in the form of Kiowa Warriors.

The way we worked best was to team each scout platoon with a platoon of tankers to provide a hunter-killer technique which was fairly deadly. We set screenlines and set out dismounted teams to observe the enemy but my favorite was always movement to contact/anti-recon. Our scout platoons would move forward to locate and kill the enemy's recon force. Normally if we were up against pc's or infantry our brads had no trouble at all and if we encountered anything heavier our tanks were right there for backup including the mortars for indirect fire support. Once the enemy's force is defined (fr lack of a better word at the moment) the rest of the division is free to make their assault, etc. However it wishes. This set up worked extremely well.

Many a time we took these tactics to the field and with our three troops soundly beat several of the other combat brigades in head to head exercises out in the field. As far as bradleys go as a scout I know they are not the most desired vehicle for recon, for noise and size reasons, but they definately serve their purpose. Being an E-5, I did not get a chance to be a primary BC while deployed in Iraq but I did get to BC a handful of missions and was a primary BC at Hood for about half my time there. Brads can take out almost anything it's size or smaller when used correctly and can be a good deterent to tanks as well but if you expect tanks to be in the area you'd better have backup. Don't plan on taking them out yourself without sustaining significant losses.

Also, although only the M2A2 and M3A2 will be modeled in Pro PE from what I've read, if they ever include the A3 model if will vastly increase the bradleys potency. With the inclusion of the new flir, main gun system (including automatic lead and target tracking system), the commander's independant sight system, the bradley is twice as accurate and twice as fast as it was. While the gunner is laid on one target the BC is already looking for another and as soon as a kill is confirmed the gunner is designated to his new target, just like the tanks. Gone are the days of BOT and red snow sights.

Lastly, as everyone should know, crew competence is a defining factor in all vehicles. I by no means am the most experienced person around but I've been through enough gunnerys and Crew Eval commitments to realise that if you cannot operating your vehicle proficiently then you are just asking for trouble. I've graded some crews who quite frankly scared the hell out of me and I was just riding in the back. (One crew mistook a firebox range sign for a truck target, hehe.)

These are just my observations as a scout. I would love to see some input from the mechanized side.

Scouts Out

[GaryOwen]

These are just my observations as a scout. I would love to see some input from the mechanized side.

Scouts Out

We have this discussion every so often around here. One of the reasons why, IMO, is that the APCs and infantry in SB1 were added late in the original development and never received the attention to detail that the tanks did. That and the fact that the majority of active MP players' (who as a group are the most prolific posters in the fora) experience with APCs/IFVs is limited to what they've learned playing SB leave them wondering how IFVs are best used.

The Bradley in SB Pro PE will be crewable. (Welcome back to the good ole days of BOT.) Several APCs will also be crewable. The infantry model will be addressed. The environmental model is also vastly improved in SB Pro PE over the environment in SB1. Hopefully at some point in the future Ssnake will announce that other IFVs, such as the Marder, will become crewable as well.

Again, IMO, the one thing that has the greatest potential for changing the way the game is played, both MP and SP (the new mission editor is just like the old one, just much better and much more flexible), is if people who do have experience with mechanized infantry and cavalry tactics begin contributing.

You mentioned crew competence in your post. I've always felt that competence was more a matter of training and experience rather than native ability. If people who have dedicated a number of years to studying this subject matter and to training other soldiers begin to contribute scenarios, or at least provide contructive critical feedback on the scenarios being played, then that will raise the overall ability of the community to simulate actual and plausible real world combined arms battles.

[ShotMagnet]

And even uncrewable Brads can kick that ass, so we're clear.

Provided they're not used as tanks (which can be hard to remember when you have tank-killing armament) a player can enjoy great success if the one realizes that Brad aren't tanks.

Don't go head-to-head with MBTs, find yourself some good HD/TD positions, take the bad guys from where they aren't looking or expecting you. Don't hang around to trade blows. Stick and move.

Pretty much what you'd be doing anyway, in a tank.


Shot

[taskforce-panther]

well put scott (viper) not a stand alone vehicle

[C12GOLF]

I've been in Brad's all my military career. It's all in how you deploy the force. A mech unit (properly deployed) can give even the best armor units nightmares. What's the mission? That is always the question. Clearing woodlines, movement to contact, hasty defense? Mech units are as diverse a unit as they come. Armor units are bad ass, no doubt. Head to head, there is no question who would come out on top. I've not got my copy yet, so I'll be interested to see how well the Brads stack up. We all know the stats though. The M2 killed more vehicles in both Iraq conflicts than any other weapon platform. I'm biased towards Brad's because I love em. They are cramped, loud, tall, ugly as hell, and hot. Can an 10$ RPG take one out? You bet your ass it will, so you had better deploy your forces accordingly. You have to be the best of both worlds. You fight like an Infantry soldier, but are mobile like a tank. What could be better?

[TopKick]

A fresh DD Form 214?

[C12GOLF]

Not yet. I'm still in the 218th HSB SCANG. I enjoy it. We have gunnery coming up in June, so this will really help me out as far as getting some extra practice in. I'm really looking forward to being here.

Something I just noticed in watching some of the ISU engagement videos. I'm sure everyone has seen the ricochet of a round that either hit or missed the target. Let me tell you, when I seen that, I knew this was the shit. I've never seen that affect modeled so well. I haven't even installed it and I'm a believer. I will say however. the in turret sound is a little off. Maybe it's been fixed for the release. If not, can this be edited? I can get a sound bite from inside the turret if anyone wants to put it in. There is just something about that M242 cycling and that loud ass gun fan that get my blood pumping. From inside the turret, you really don't hear the "boom" (like you do in the drivers seat {read below}), just the gun cycle and the fan.

Just an FYI if you are ever driving a Bradley: My first gunnery as a driver, I was in the BP at Ft Jackson about to shoot table VI. I'd never been on a crew up to that point, and really didn't know what to expect. It was hotter than a muther, so I combat popped my hatch, thinking I would be alright. I heard the tower say "The zero target is up, announce On the Way before firing". We eased up, and my gunner said he was ready. I heard my BC say, "Tower, One the Way!" At that moment, I felt the fury of that 25mm going off right above my head. I almost pissed myself!! lol. After I got the dirt out of my face and the ringing in my ears stopped I quickly reached up and closed my hatch. From that point on I just sucked it up as far as being hot! lol.

Training point...driver, keep your damn hatches closed!