My students think the graphics are great!

[cobrabase]

As a patiently waiting high school science teacher (former Army) I have found myself putting SB Pro PE screenshots as my laptop background. I lecture from a projector and I get "Ooooos!" and "Ahhhhs!" from my kids when they see your terrain ESimgames.

Many thought that some of the winter landscapes were real.

All of them are all interested in seeing me play the game when it comes out. Two of them got so into it that I stay after school for a few days a week to talk to them about Army life and specifically tanks and helicopters. The two are saving up to buy the game when it comes out. $125 is a lot of money for these kids (even for a private school).

I come in every Monday and set up and my kids file in to their seats. 5 of them always ask "Has it come yet?!!" They're as excited as I am.

Just wanted Esim and my Steel Beast buddies online to know... the graphics are even wowing the X-Box 360 generation. Keep it up. :D

[Ssnake]

:)

[Bluewings]

Hehe ... :wink: :)

Cheers . :3starSK:

[LancerVI]

The graphics I think are awesome. Especially considering that this is a DEEP simulation with tons of calculations in the background. (Much More then your regular video/computer game)

I've been very impressed.

Lancer VI

[Cobra2]

i have many issues graphics-wise with Pro PE, though SB is still one of my all time favorite games. one thing i did notice is that the wheels on tanks turn in the sme way. if one edge of the wheel is shiny then they all have the same shiny edge pointing at the same direction. this bothered my a little. the biggest gripe other than shadows is the lack of any wind. smoke is suppose to move, and not just sit there. you can input a random direction for at least smoke and possibly dust. i know you cant make all the trees move because this is unseen in most big name game titles.

i do love SB Pro PE, but its these small touches that really make the game. may be in an upcoming upgrade?

[LancerVI]

Just realise Cobra that on a simulation, as I'm sure you realise, graphics are sometimes secondary to a long list of other considerations. ballistics, weather, armor, shear size of evironment, computing all of the above for ALL the units on the field. 99% of games out there don't do that. Graphics also play a role in the realism as well, but the direction the roadwheels turn and if they are shiny is not in my opinion, one of the graphics features that makes a bit of difference. Dust clouds, smoke, grass, trees, muzzle flashes stuff like that makes more sense to spend more time on, as they effect the simulation on a tactical level. Road wheels do not. Now wind, I can't argue with....that would be cool to see. But they have to balance cpu/gpu load and playability. They have to calculate all this, make it pretty, and still make it playable. This is hard to do. That's why most companies have abandoned the sim market. It's got a long and difficult development cycle, with a small niche audience. thank the god's that eSim does what they do. I agree though, I hope they continue to upgrade the product as they go with touch ups.

Lancer VI

[Shane]

The graphics I think are awesome. Especially considering that this is a DEEP simulation with tons of calculations in the background. (Much More then your regular video/computer game)

I've been very impressed.

Lancer VI

I couldn't agree more.

Sure it would be cool to have infantry models/animations like that in BF2, but in a simulation already as deep as this, you'd need an AMD 6000 64 running dual 9000 GTXs in SLI to get it to run smoothly.

The graphics so far in SB Pro PE seem to be pretty darn nice. I'm sure as time goes on the SB Team will be able to enhance things here and there (muzzle flashes, etc..). Heck, if the simulation has a certain level of moddability to it, the community may be able to mod these little enhancements in. By moddability I don't mean the ability to the extent of user created vehicles and complete replacement simulation mods, but perhaps the ability to mess with textures, sprites, etc.. (things along those lines). I'm not sure how this would affect online play though since I don't know how the server side checks each client (though I don't see much in the way of cheating for a title like this).

I'll tell you something, I'd much rather have games that look as good as this and run at a solid 60+ FPS on a good machine, rather then games that model infantry peeing animation, quail migrating patterns, and 3D enemy KP duty...just to have it there. Aspects the likes of muzzle flashes, weather, and other things along those lines I see as being directly related to immersion. I love all the little details here and there as well, but some things that could be added in may not nesaccarily make the game any better, or immersive.

[NEpi]

Immersion is not having a completely real environment.
if I ever have the funding for it, I might find out what it does include :)

anyway, I think that when training of individual crews is in mind, and afaik it is in the minds of several esim clients, wind is an important factor, even more than reallistic armor model. irrelevant movement (trees, smoke etc.) makes spotting harder. it draws attention to it. also, it might teach crews to deal with wind to avoid being covered by heavy dust (or maksing themselves with it) and shooting at multiple target according to wind direction.
it also may change ballistics, and so will make gunners miss sometime. if so, then it is important to teach them to correct their aiming even when it was perfect (I know, APDS rounds tend to suffer very little from wind).
the big problem is making so many objects move according to the wind. although it seems tough, I'm sure it's workable, and I think that for the level SB deals with (up to company-size and then a little), it should be important.

looking forward to see that in the future..

for the wheels, it's eye candy, but who cares? for tactical or technical purposes its useless.

[Ssnake]

i do love SB Pro PE, but its these small touches that really make the game. may be in an upcoming upgrade?
Yes. That's the concept of the regular upgrades for SB Pro.

[Ssnake]

The issue with wind is two-fold. We certainly all agree that wind is highly desirable for individual gunnery training, and to that extent I'm all for it, too. In my opinion it doesn't make much sense however to include crosswind as long as there are no proper means other than the drift of smoke and dust clouds to indicate the cross wind speed. If the user cannot apply real-world observation to estimate the crosswind, and it would require that the instructor tells him which value to use for crosswind, there'd be no instructional value. It still might be nice as far as visuals are concerned - but that'd make it more of an SB2 feature. One would want to see grass and twigs of trees move, which is currently too demanding for us to implement it. And if you're talking about cross-wind sensors ... well, in that case the user wouldn't need to take wind into consideration anyway.

In short, I think we're going to see it one day, but not in the immediate future.

[NEpi]

wind has more to it than gunnery, IMO. it affects target acquisition and spotting too. although I recognise the huge effect on computer performance it will take, I don't think it's merely an eye-candy or immersion booster.

not being able to feel the wind has nothiing to do with the effects of wind I just mentioned.

it's a rather big question whether implementing arbitrary information has training value or not. as you already know, Nils, I'm working on it, just very very slowly :)

[Newbie-Olle]

Speaking of snow...
In the published screenshots there's only a light snow cover on the ground. Is/will there be deep snow (30+ cm) available as well? (The winter has only started here and we allready have 30 cm on the ground, expecting twice or more before spring...)

Cheers
Olle

[Ssnake]

Well, in essence all we're doing is to paint the ground white and make it more slippery. If you want the vehicles to sink into the ground and to have them start small avalanches as they're driving downhill... that may take a bit more time.

[PS-SCUD]

Stick around though, I'm sure SB v22.5 will have it fully implemented.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Ref the deep snow.

1. Lesson 101: Heavy Snow vs Infantry Tactics:

How to remove Infantry from the valley below your tanks or tracked vehicles. Secure the closest hilltop to the Infantry. Move one or two elements to the front edge of the hilltop and proceed to drive along the Infantry facing slope creating a Snow Avalance that should cause the infantry to "run away,run away"

End Lesson.


LOL and we should look forward to this... ha ha

Sorry couldn't help it, lol ..... 9erRed

[Newbie-Olle]

Well, in essence all we're doing is to paint the ground white and make it more slippery. If you want the vehicles to sink into the ground and to have them start small avalanches as they're driving downhill... that may take a bit more time.My primary concern is the physical effects on movement and that with deep snow you don't see any bare ground shining through the snow cover.
Not only is it more slippery, but also provide more resistance to movement. The effect is most notable on leg infantry that have no problems with light snow but get slow and tiring in deep snow. There's also a more pronounced difference in effect on vehicles with different ground pressure (comparing the MMP).

The active use of snow for concealment (instant dug-ins for infantry as they sink into the snow when going prone, for example) would be a cool feature, but quite possibly demanding too much work to implement.
... or maybe not for the infantry, coming to think of it. A seemingly simple and working, but not perfect, solution is to "cut off" the grunts a bit and only show the upper part.
- Erect soldiers are shown from their knees up.
- Kneeling soldiers from the waist up.
- Prone soldiers are invisible if pinned and expose head, shoulders and upper part of their back when firing.

Then there's the whole issue of leaving tracks when moving through the snow, and the tactical and operational effects that follow. I won't go there...

Cheers
Olle

[Ssnake]

Well, at least it's possible to adapt the mobility relevant parameters when defining a terrain theme. As far as concealment is concerned, Al is working on a few ideas, but I don't know when they'll actually materialize.