Bradley shooty video.

[3Star]

I know, the quality is low. I don't have that much space on my website. Should give you a general idea though.

http://www.clubi.ie/exalted/images/other/bradley.zip

NTM

[Retro]

Thanks 8)

[AllenInWV]

Dude, don't apologize!! That video pretty much sold me on getting Pro PE. As a former mech grunt, I can tell you that brought back a lot of memories!!!

However, I must say that is the WORST trigger control I have ever seen!! :lol: Do they not still do the "1-1-3-3" technique??

[PaleRider]

Very nice 3Star! It looks like my Christmas wish came true. Thanks! :cvcsalute:

[3Star]

However, I must say that is the WORST trigger control I have ever seen!! :lol: Do they not still do the "1-1-3-3" technique??

Well, to me, the 25mm is just a particularly big co-ax...

NTM

[TankHunter]

Ah man, 3S, I like that one.

[Ssnake]

Horrible violations of doctrine, but a good demonstrator nevertheless. ;)

[Kessler]

Hey Guys,
I've been away for the last year but I finally received a Christmas Card from Snake. I was actually surprised to receive it since I was not expecting it from E-Sim Games. In any event...Good job with the Bradley Demo. The SB Pro PE will provide much better training to the individual than you would find in the old MCOFT's. I'm looking forward to receiving my copy of SB Pro PE and kicking some butt. Thanks Snake!

[LancerVI]

That was awesome. Also as an ex mech-crunchie......I am very excited. (I jumped up and down when I saw the video.) Ahhhh....sweet memories of my beloved "25 Mike Mike" . Thank you Ssnake, eSim and the God's of War, for putting the Brad it.......oh sweet Jeeeesus!!!! ;p

3Star, yes.....your technique is....uhhh.....original. 1-1-3 is the best. Sensing round, Target Round, 3 round Burst on Target, repeat 3 round burst till destroyed. Remember guys, the 25 MM is not a precision weapon, but an area weapon, so you gotta walk it in like ARTY.

Lancer VI

[3Star]

It's a puny gun that deserves to be used like the puny gun it is...

Besides, it's capable of full auto, I'm going to use it on full auto. Muahahahaha!!!!

(I should add that the rules might have changed. I definitely recall Bradleys in mosul going on HEI-High and blazing away with more than three-round bursts)

NTM

[TopKick]

I’ll bet the TOW has an interesting misfire procedure, especially if it includes unloading the booger after total failure to fire. Come to think of it, I bet the M1A1 misfire and unloading procedure gets hairy too.

[LancerVI]

3Star,

You're probably right. I only fired in training. In combat, I'm sure 1-1-3 goes out the window!!

Lancer VI

[GaryOwen]

Well, there ought to be a big difference between engaging a moving vehicle target with AP (spotting round confirmed followed by short burst) and engaging a static area target with HE (hammering a hole into the side of building).

[Storm91]

1-1-3-3 then 5-7 rd burst on a armored target =Confirmed kill(old school).If you got a good eye for range estimation just open up with the standard USAR 3-5 rd burst m60 type-at home of course :).Red therms i was scared they were going to be m1 sights.I hate green.

[Ssnake]

Bad news for you... latest upgrades for the Bradleys include a new thermal imager with ... you guessed it ... a green scope.

Merry Christmas! :twisted:

[Storm91]

Open mouth insert foot eh?I never could understand the army philosophy of making everything green vvs-2,pvs4,5,7,m1 site,and now the brad.You talk to any Vietnam grunt and hell tell you there &*^%.Rain,green jungle,sweat,close quarter combat made em useless.Not like you can really see someone walking if its dark enough.L.A.P.D. has better thermals than the army-sad but true. :(

[3Star]

I believe the green is phosphor-related. I don't know how/why they went red for the Brads.

NTM

[Storm91]

Let me rephrase that i hate green night vision goggles lol.I use white hot or daysight only.But hey green and red are christmas colors.If it's possible make it so you can switch between green and red with a future update.Psychologically speaking green is a pacifying,mentally peaceful healing color.Just take alook around the hospital next time your at one.Explains why soldiers go to sleep lol.Red is an angry color keeps you psyched. :twisted:

[NEpi]

I think the red scopes have to do with human vision.
us humans have trichromatic vision: we have 3 kinds of receptors in the eye. those are sensitive to red, green and blue. we also have a "night vision" kind of receptors, that are especially sensitive to blue light, but they aren't connected to our color vision.
our color vision and dark vision are not fully connected. volor receptors are much less sensitive to light, and are almost completely out of use in the dark. so red light is harder to spot at night than blue or green (low sensitivity of dark vision to red), and using red light which is bright enough to spot with our red color receptor doesn't affect our night vision receptor, so after sticking our heads inside the red scope we don't have any problem sticking out of the turret or using daylight scopes.

for some reason, I think red screens are relatively costly, while green screens aren't, and because there are so many of those many armies use the cheaper green scopes.

[SFViper19D]

Bad news for you... latest upgrades for the Bradleys include a new thermal imager with ... you guessed it ... a green scope.

Merry Christmas! :twisted:

You're right! Lay recticle on target...himag...adjust...zoom, zoom to 48x power...lase...3 round burst, 4 if you just changed your ammo selection. Seems like a lot to do but if you are used to shooting one-handed with the a2 system you can do it with the a3 as well. The 25 is now deemed a precision weapon in the a3, no more sensing round.

You would be surprised how much training becomes second nature in combat. A well disciplined gunner will still use a three round burst technique. Besides, there is such a thing as running winchester on ammo through stupidity. During one firefight the firefight the gunner in the brad next to me was firing so slow it sounded like he was on single fire mode. Come to find out he was in hi-rate, he just kept releasing the trigger. He was an unexperienced and new gunner and after some horrible ribbing he 'corrected' his technique ;)

P.S. I had to laugh when I saw 25 being wasted on the troops. Its much easier to use coax provided the range is right. Coax will hit targets much further out then the book states too. I've hit targets at 1500m. The rounds had so much arc to get there I thought the coax had misfired until they came back into view and hit the target!

[3Star]

I had to laugh when I saw 25 being wasted on the troops.

It worked, didn't it?

Remember, I'm a tanker. Big is better. Or, in the famous words of the 'Rules to follow as a special ops team member sent to a research facility:' "I will not start with my small gun and work my way up to bigger ones. I will start with the biggest thing I have, and if that doesn't work, I will immediately egress the area"

NTM

[NEpi]

I agre with the coax point. it's usually much more effective than the bigger guns.
I'm a tanker also.

viper, did you have confirmed hit in 1500m? sure, the coax can get there, but it spreads like hell in such ranges. I did the same once, but I had to shoot outrageous ammounts of bullets to achieve hits. on the other hand, we had the ammo, and we used the mortar already :twisted:

[AllenInWV]

Maybe things have changed in 11M-land since the late 80s, but troops beyond 800-900m get a dose of HEI-T. And in such a case, the 1-1-3-3 technique was forsaken for 'spray n' pray'. :lol:

[Grenny]

So you guys learned it 1-1-3-3?

I've just seen the 25mm vis on the entry page...that looked like we learned it
...get one hit,let 5 follow(all on single fire...as the marder only has single fire and full auto option)
Who did these shots?

I must say I can't wait to get my hands on a PE copy.
This will be good!!!

[1stADCavScout]

So you guys learned it 1-1-3-3?

Ya, on the Table VIII qualification, you are allowed 8 rounds to kill a target. I think it was 4 or 5 rounds hitting the target to register a kill. So, you fire a sensing round to make sure you guessed the range and lead correctly, if not, you fire another sensing round, then 3 rd bursts. If the 1st sensing round hits, we followed with a 3 rd and then a 4 rd burst.

[Grenny]

So you guys learned it 1-1-3-3?

Ya, on the Table VIII qualification, you are allowed 8 rounds to kill a target. I think it was 4 or 5 rounds hitting the target to register a kill. So, you fire a sensing round to make sure you guessed the range and lead correctly, if not, you fire another sensing round, then 3 rd bursts. If the 1st sensing round hits, we followed with a 3 rd and then a 4 rd burst.

Do you switch to auto or do you just keep hitting the trigger after the sensing round hit?

[1stADCavScout]

My platoon always stayed on auto. The Brad has single shot, low(100 rounds per minute) and Hi(200 rpm) for both ammo types. So even on AP HI, @ 200 RPM, it's really easy to squeeze off however many rounds you want. I'm not really sure why they bothered putting in options for single shot or low. Seems pretty useless and just adds something to potentially malfunction electrically.

[Kessler]

Being a veteran 11Mike and working as a BC on a M2A2, you learn that anything past tracer burn out on the coax gets 25MM HE if its soft skinned targets. PC's get Sabot, dismounts / RPG Teams and trucks get hosed with coax if under 900 meters (tracer burnout) or HE past 900. I understand the point of the 1500 meter rule but I don't use that method. For those of us who are old school from the 80's, this is how we were trained. I know the A3 model has more gizmo's and gadgets that get in the way and the 25mm is now a precision weapon but when the electronics go down, you have to "Old School" the ISU to get on target.

Firing on HE High mode is fine but you will empty your ready box quick if your not disciplined with standard gunnery procedures.

[Kessler]

The crews that are on the A3 model of the Bradley don't use the same gunnery method that crews on the Pre ODS models were using. The 1-1-3-3 method came up when the earlier models of the Brad came into production to include the A2 model. The ODS has that BELRF so the gunner can get onto target quicker and uses a different engagement technique. But in this game, we should be using the pre ODS method which was using the sense round to get onto target then atleast three round BOT to kill the target if not more but don't go full Auto. You will empty out your Ready box especially in real life.

[SFViper19D]

NEpi: Yup, it was a definate hit. Mind you I wasnt firing at a person, I was suppressing a building that was probably 10x15' that we were taking mortar fire from. You are correct about the bullet spread at extreme range. I would have dosed it with HEI-T but we were experiencing technical difficulties with the 25 ;)

3Star: Yes, you can swat flies with snowshovels, it works. However, explaining to your chain of command why you wasted all your ammo incorrectly is not only unpleasant but can also cut your paycheck and personal time short. (Also it would be agonizing having to be the last guy to qual at the range)

BC: "Cease fire, troops destroyed!"

GNR: "Yeah! Did you see what that HE did to those guys!"

BC: "Shut up! ....SHIFT LEFT, SABOT, PC!"

GNR: "Umm, I can't, I shot it all at the troops!"

You could just as well use "HE, Truck" in that example but I figure a guy willing to waste his HE would gladly offer up his AP as well.

I'm not trying to offend or anything either, just called it as I saw it as a case of bad doctrine. I've shed sweat, blood, and tears with you Kilos. I love ya all even if it is fun to watch you scrub "OPFOR was HeRe!" off your skirts.

Hey Al, I don't recall what the range was in the vid bit if it was over 900m I'll start eating my boot. My foot's in there somewhere....

[SFViper19D]

P.S. Although now that I'm thinking about it cows go down well under training HE....(shhh, don't tell range control!)

During my stay we used the M3A2, M2A3 and M3A3. Squadron SOP was that we normally used HI rate on all engagements. Never did use LOW. Single fire mode comes into play mainly during misfire procedures when the bolt is in misfire. You have to place the 25 into single fire mode so you can get the bolt back into sear. If you leave it in either auto mode the bolt will travel back into misfire.

[flyboy]

Yep heard the army has troubles here with Kangaroos on the ranges here as well.Well I suppose its not the grunts fault to have a Skip jump into his rounds.Going OT.Being a warbird friek as well, one of the Spitfire pilots I know of here had a chance to fly one of the Hawk simulators last year,went well and took out a couple of soft targets with his missiles (just gotta love these diggers).After the mission the OIC informed of his success in the mission and proceeded to inform the lucky pilot of the cost of mission,somewhere in the vicinity of a few million dollars.Why????The missiles used where anti shipping!!When you gotta do it,do it well...

[3Star]

3Star: Yes, you can swat flies with snowshovels, it works. However, explaining to your chain of command why you wasted all your ammo incorrectly is not only unpleasant but can also cut your paycheck and personal time short.

Don't worry about the whole thing, I'm just playing 'Dumb tanker likes big boomy things'

Still, ammo expenditure was -not- an issue in Iraq. If you wanted to let rip with stupid amounts of ammo, as long as the wrong people didn't get killed, there was no problem. Indeed, it was easier to expend ammo than to fill out the paperwork to turn it in.

NTM

[SFViper19D]

;)

[richard]

While watching the video i noticed that the 25mm elevated when the crew reloaded the tow's, is this normal? Is there any way to keep the 25mm depressed while reloading tow's? :?

[DrDevice]

Nope. That's how the system reloads.

[DrDevice]

<double post>

[dejawolf]

yes, there is a way to elevate and depress the main gun while reloading, but you can't traverse the turret while doing so. you can disengage the powered elevation of the missile launcher, although it might have quite a few consequences i didn't think about.

[Trekker]

Is it a automatic reload system, or do you need a guy in the fighting compartment to relaod?

[DrDevice]

So you can depress the cannon, but can you fire it as well?

I know the turret is locked during the TOW reload, and I thought the 25mm locked up with the launcher during that operation.

[ShotMagnet]

I just ran a test. I was able neither to traverse or affect elevation of the Bushmaster while uploading a missile. I could fire the gun, but I couldn't train it on a target.

Maybe DW has a later version than do I.

Shot

[richard]

That slaving to the tow system is not a good thing. You maybe forced to pull off the line to reload..With the system like it is you cannot shootback while reloading..

[SFViper19D]

Manually raising the TOW is time consuming and a pain in the arse.

When the TOW is raised it will always point in the direction of the turret and follow the elevation of the 25 during powered mode. Normal reload procedure is to face 10-11 o'clock, max elevate (almost), deselect TOW on the SCB, turnoff the turret drive power and engage the turret traverse lock. It can be done without the last two steps but they are for crew safety. One of your dismounts in the crew compartment will open the crew hatch, remove the old TOW tube and reinsert a fresh one. Once he gives the heads up that it is loaded and closes the crew hatch you're back in business. During the entire process your're lame duck for the enemy with both 25 and TOW in the air.

P.S. The coax will of course be in the air as well, its tied into the 25 mount.

[DrDevice]

The reload procedure is not automatic, is it? If not, is it modeled that way in SBP? Is there a "reload now" command for the TOW?

I sure hope we are able to prevent the Brad from going tits-up during an engagement if we don't need the TOW right away! :shock:

The sad part is that 4 minutes is the standard for reload time for a TOW per the FM. What's the real world practical time?

[Trekker]

The reload procedure is not automatic, is it?


One of your dismounts in the crew compartment will open the crew hatch, remove the old TOW tube and reinsert a fresh one. Once he gives the heads up that it is loaded and closes the crew hatch you're back in business.

Yes it is :lol:

[dejawolf]

i was talking what could be done in real life afaik.
you could put the tow and turret into manual after moving the launcher into load position, although there wouldn't be much point in doing so, since you could only move the gun/coax up and down. you'd be better off having the squad dismount and securing the area. (with of course 1 guy in the back loading the missile)

[SFViper19D]

If it's a platoon of tanks I'd rather just sit behind the iv line and use the radio ;)

If it's only a section or a lone tank you could prolly take the shot/shots and have time to reload.