Australian vehicles: No tutorials.

[Zantar]

Since there are no tutorials included for the crewable Australian vehicles would anyone like to post about any idiosyncrasies they have? Things I've discovered so far are that the peri in the LeoAS1 doesn't seem to work the same way as the others. Pressing the up and down arrow keys turn something called "Pano" on and off. I don't see any obvious effects when I do this. Can this peri not be slaved to the gun and the gun slaved to it like in the other models?

Another oddity is that in the ASLAV-25 the gunner only seems to have a thermal sight, and the commander can override the gun but only has a daysight. It also doesn't seem to carry any troops. Is it not used as an APC?

[Ssnake]

There are indeed a couple of differences. We're still hoping for a few Aussie tankers to deliver the tutorial scenarios since the SABCA fire control system is different enough that I don't feel fully qualified to write tutorials for it.

[RecceDG]

The Aussie LAV-25 has a gunner daysight, but SB assigns it to the aux sight hotkey instead of the GPS hotkey.

So you get this wierd behaviour where toggling the TIS (which you expect should drop you into the daysight) instead... turns the TIS off, leaving you with a black screen.

I suppose that technically that's correct behaviour if the Aussie LAV doesn't project its TI into the main gunner's eyepiece.... but I'll be very suprised if that's the way it works.

The LAV-25 feels to me like more of a proof of concept than a fully actualized vehicle. It looks to me like the TI from one of the Leos and the aux sight from the Brad stuck in as quick & dirty standins for the actual crew stations.

But having played around with it a little... it seems to be working correctly, ie, there is no ballistic computer on the LAV (at least not the Canadian version) so the procedure is to lase to get range, use the appropriate stadia line for the ammo used on the graticle, and if it a mover, aim off. That's all correct.

DG

[Ssnake]

Well, the way we understood the technical specifications, it's two different sights (so you need to move your head from one eyepiece to the other), so we were using two F keys to reflect that setup.

[RecceDG]

Hm, you might be right about the two separate sights. I've got a couple of the Coyote pams handy, and I can't conform or deny that the Canadian version uses separate sights or projects the TI into the daysight.

I don't have the pam that would confirm it handy at the moment.

I do think that the current implementation - even if they are separate eyepieces - doesn't add any training value, and complicates joystick setup. Turning off the TI should move you to the daysight and vice-versa.

What might be cool though is (assuming an interior, maybe even just a bitmap like in SB1) is switching the TI on and off could cycle through the interior to show that eyepieces are being switched.

So TI off goes TI screen -> interior screen -> daysight screen.

For that matter, that could be implemented on ALL vehicles that have multiple eyepieces - switching views drops you into the interior for a split second, maybe even with a camera move away from the initial sight eyepiece and then toward the second sight eyepiece.

DG

[jrcar]

We are currently working on tutorials. I'm NOT a gunner, or even a tankie (ex Intel) but the School of Armour gunnery instructors are mostly happy :) so its about right. We got some good feedback on the Leo and ASLAV from them that Al was able to incorporate.

The default in the real vehicle is TI, hence that is the prefered "main" sight.

The ASLAV is used in the recce role. The ASLAV25 can carry 2-4 "scouts" but now we have plenty of ASLAVPC I don't think they do any more. We use a mixed troop (Platoon) of 6 vehicles, 4 gun cars and 2 PC's, the later carry the dismounts.

Cheers

Rob Carpenter
Deputy Director, Simulation Development
Australian Army

[dejawolf]

the reticle switching motion is already added to the leopard 2a5, M2A2 and M1A1 abrams.

[Gibsonm]

Rob's correct,

By the time you put all the extra surveillance gear, rations, etc. in the back of a gun LAV there is almost no room left. I found it hard fitting in as an Umpire in the back of one so a half section has no chance.

Especially when compared to the "sheer luxury" (said in a strong Yorkshire accent) of a Type 2 LAV PC.

[3Star]

It seems to me that in the ASLAV-25, the 'Dynamic lead' button (or palm switch.. basically 'P') is used to tell the computer 'caculate this lead and hold'

So, for example:

Find a target in the distance in thermals. Go to F3 (daylight) see the elevation currently input. Go back to Thermals. Lase. Go back to F3. Note that the elevation has not changed. Go back to thermals. Hit 'P'. You will hear the 'thunk'. Go back to daylight: Note that the elevation has changed.

Similarly, start tracking a steady target left/right (Or right/left, if you're feeling contrary) in thermals. Lase. Nothing will happen. Hit 'P'. Lead and elevation will both be applied, the reticle will 'jump' in a similar manner to the M1A1. i.e. the ASLAV's sight is stabilised in elevation only. The difference between the M1 and the ASLAV is that in the M1, the lead is recalculated constantly and so the reticle floats around as you change the traverse rates. In the ASLAV-25, the reticle retains the same offset regardless of the motion of the turret, until you hit the 'P' button again.

Hope it helps.

NTM

[RecceDG]

Hm, if that is what it is doing, I don't think that is correct - unless the ASLAV-25 has a more sophisticated FCS than either the Canadian Coyote or the USMC LAV-25.

Neither of those do lead compensation or superelevation.

DG

[3Star]

I've no idea if it's correct enough, but at least people will now be able to hit things with it in the game!

NTM

[RecceDG]

That's why the reticule has lead marks on it. ;)

DG

[jrcar]

ASLAV is more sophisticated than the Marine LAV and the Coyote. Steelbeasts is modelling it correctly.

cheers

Rob

[RecceDG]

Huh, how about that. I stand corrected.

DG

[Gibsonm]

Well also paid more to get:

"Caution: Left Hand Drive" painted on the back AND
Blinkers, stop and reversing lights put on

No expense spared.

Got to be happy with that!

[twobravo]

Just how do u activate the turn signals on SB?? snicker.. sorry..
Dave
RCAC

[dejawolf]

not to mention the wider wheels, and spare wheel holder.

[Gibsonm]

Should see the Recaro seats in the turret and the Bose sound system! :lol:

[twobravo]

ours has a beer fridge.. oh wait, that was the old army...

[Gibsonm]

So has ours - but its used for storing temperature sensitive medical supplies and to keep the brew milk fresh.

[twobravo]

uh huh... ;)

[3Star]

OK, the Leo1A5AS isn't too hard to figure out. Any brits used to the Chieftain's IFCS will know how this works:

Basically, the computer tells you, the gunner, where to aim. It does not tell the gun where to aim.

When you hit lase, the reticle will jump up or down according to the required superelevation. This is identical to the M1 in emergency mode, for example. i.e, if 1,000m is currently indexed, and you lase to a target 2000m away, the reticle will jump downwards, requiring you to elevate the gun until the reticle is on the target again.

Similarly, the "P" key means "Calculate this lead" The computer figures out where the gun should be aiming in order to hit the target at the current range at the current traverse rate. It moves the reticle accordingly. You now have to re-adjust your aim so that the reticle is on the moving target.

Example. Target moving left-right requires that the gun be aimed a little to the right of the target for lead. Lase target, so that the correct range is entered. As you track the target, hit 'P,' the reticle will be to the left, 'lagging behind' the target. As you move the reticle right, catching up to the target, you are simultaneously moving the gun to the right, in front of the target. When reticle is on target, gun is at the correct superelevation and lead. Pull trigger.

NTM

[jrcar]

Correct :)

Rob

[stuart666]

OK, the Leo1A5AS isn't too hard to figure out. Any brits used to the Chieftain's IFCS will know how this works:

Basically, the computer tells you, the gunner, where to aim. It does not tell the gun where to aim.

When you hit lase, the reticle will jump up or down according to the required superelevation. This is identical to the M1 in emergency mode, for example. i.e, if 1,000m is currently indexed, and you lase to a target 2000m away, the reticle will jump downwards, requiring you to elevate the gun until the reticle is on the target again.

Similarly, the "P" key means "Calculate this lead" The computer figures out where the gun should be aiming in order to hit the target at the current range at the current traverse rate. It moves the reticle accordingly. You now have to re-adjust your aim so that the reticle is on the moving target.

Example. Target moving left-right requires that the gun be aimed a little to the right of the target for lead. Lase target, so that the correct range is entered. As you track the target, hit 'P,' the reticle will be to the left, 'lagging behind' the target. As you move the reticle right, catching up to the target, you are simultaneously moving the gun to the right, in front of the target. When reticle is on target, gun is at the correct superelevation and lead. Pull trigger.

NTM

You are right, I also thought the SABCA similar to IFCS, which as the SABCA control system is a similar generation I suppose shouldnt surprise me. The main differences are,
1 The AS1 (as far as Im aware) can fire at moving targets while on the move.
2 With the AS1 you only need to lase one and can generate lead on any target with the same range, as long as you track it. IFCS is more problematic in (and Im going on memory here) you have to track a target after lasing it for 1.3 seconds before applying autolay (lead) so it knows that its not a static target. I think you would have to lase (or input range) in every engagement. So IFCS is definately more clunky.
3 IFCS (or rather CSS) can kill tanks at 5600 metres. :wink:

Nice fire control system anyway. For some reason I prefer the AS1 over the 1a5dk, perhaps because you have a better magnification on the daytime sight.

[Swagman]

As an ex RAAC tankie who got his copy of SB a couple of days ago i'm extremely impressed and have been having a ton of fun in the 2A5.

I haven't gotten around to the AS1 yet, but iirc the gun does super elevate automatically with stab on when a target is lased (the sight picture momentarily jumps as the gun realigns), otherwise it operates as described above. SOP in my day was to turn stab off when stationary because it was all but impossible to completely trim the drift in azimuth.

That said, it has been <cough> a few years <cough> since I last sat in the gunners seat but I'm sure I've still got the notes from my gunners course lying around somewhere, and I'm still in touch with some ex 1AR guys so I'll double check and get back to you...

[aslttrooper]

As a Canadian LAV Gunner I cant wait to get My copy of SB pro PE..Ordered it about 5 days ago and Im still waiting patiently. How long do u Figure it would take to get to Ontario lol.

Our Lavs have 2 sights for the Gunner and 3 for the CC. A day sight and a Thermal for both. The CC has another sight which is an II sight, Really its just a Huge NVG like a Kite sight. There is no laze and blaze with our FSC. The gun is fully Stabilized in all Axis's. The only thing I hate is the Graticule pattern. Very ancient technology.SO really we Laze if not a "Battle" engagement, which Is SABOT engagements 800 meters or less. Every thing else is Apply the range to the graticule and fireing 3 rd burst's adjust. We call this "Burst on Target"....Firing on the move uses the same principle. as there is no Lead compensating system we track and adjust using half TGT lengths. There is a lot of skill involved.

I recently Came back from Afghanistan as A member of KMNB Recce Squadron. we were mounted on Coyotes and they performed wicked. we had to adjust our engines as the Diesal Engines at high altitudes were a bit weak at times..couldnt use the AC ever..Luckily we never used our Weapons but were close a number of times.

The BG now in Kandahar have engaged a number of Light vehicles in Combat and the TPT rounds not service ammo seem to work better when shooting up traucks full of taliban.

Any questions feel free to respond. hopefully my game will be here tommorow.

[TankCat]

Welcome aboard, aslttrooper! I got my copy of Pro PE a couple of weeks ago -- you're going to love it.

Good to meet you, and good to have you home from Afghanistan in one piece.

[Androo]

Hang in there aslttrooper. My copy arrived a couple of weeks ago, only 7 or 8 days after ordering- that's a record for me for getting stuff from the States. I thought it would get hung up in Customs and I would get charged a whack of Duty etc. But it sailed through without a charge and I'm sure yours will too
:wink:

You should be in action by the weekend. My bet is you will find the sim is even better than you were hoping for.

[12Alfa]

Welcome back, lots of Canadains here.

[TankCat]

It was about 9 business days for me, and I'm a tad off the beaten track as far as Canada Post is concerned. You should be up and running in no time; if nothing else, you'll probably have a bit of a leg up in the gunnery department!

[aslttrooper]

Ok awesome so it is Canada Post that delivers it. Ive been waiting for the mail man every day asking if theres a package or not lol.

[Ssnake]

Canadian customs have a reputation of being slow, though.

[aslttrooper]

yeah ordered last tues..was trying to keep faith, but now its turning to desparation lol.

[TankCat]

Canada Customs' reputation is hard-won and well-deserved, Ssnake. I feel for you, aslttrooper, I was there myself not too long ago.

No matter how long it takes, though, it is definitely worth the wait.

[aslttrooper]

Woo Hoo, well worth the wait thats for sure...wifes a bit bitter though. Purulator droped it off and wanted another 10$ custums fees lol. And the good thing is that I can play t on my laptop as well as my desktop. Gotta dummy down the graphics a bit but its still sweet. Damn leopards are still as confusing as SB1 ( wish I had the Gunners Crse now lol).
Next step..ONLINE lol