Warning ! - This is not your average tank sim

[meangreen]

Before I say anything.....

I am not saying that there wasn't ample warning about the realism of SB Pro PE. I have to say that this is not an easy-to-get-into-sim. I consider myself a sim fan. And I am using the term 'sim' as in your average PC computer game simulation. I have always been more of an aircraft sim fan (F4 Falcon, Lock-On), but I also liked the more realistic tank simulations from the 90s.

Anyway, I thought that SB Pro PE might be a good sim for me. It was a bit much $ but then again.....it would be worth it for a good sim.

Well, I have had a few days now and I have to say that I am overwhelmed. I don't intend to take away anything from the simulation, but I also have to warn some people who might think about buying this 'game'.

It really has the feel of something commercial and not entertainment targeted. Everything is complicated in one way or another. There is not many single missions available and no multiplay server. As far as I can tell, you have to enter an IP address if you want to join an online game. ***I'm sure this has been covered in many warnings***

I find the missions fairly hard to complete...hell, I have been unable to complete any mission successfully at this point.

I can completely understand that people who are hard core tank sim fans would eat this thing up. However, for a person who would like a more realistic tank game, SB Pro PE might not be the pick. I find myself getting frustrated with many of the missions, since I don't fully appreciate the comprehensive simulation. I was expecting a little something more userfriendly with a more traditional game feel to it.

Personally, I would have been better off waiting for the SB2 release.

Anyway, if you are looking for something extremely technical, I am sure you will be hard pressed to turn this one down. If you are looking for a tank sim game.....you might wanna wait for SB2.

[DarkAngel]

A few days is not enough time to get used to this Sim. Most of the SB community have a head start with 5+ years of playing. It was never billed as a tank game...

Best bet is come online and get someone to show you around a bit. The community is very friendly and no one will mind helping you.

[RENEGADE-623]

I have to agree with you, this is not your average tank sim, its much better. This is a lot more realistic than SB1 was.

I find the missions fairly hard to complete...hell, I have been unable to complete any mission successfully at this point
Maybe try using different tactics. Thats what makes this game so good, the missions arent pushovers like sims in the past. Yea, sure, I can play a flight sim where I can render my aircraft invulnerable. That realistic? not in my book. This game you pay for your mistakes. This game rocks, and glad I didnt wait for SB2 to come out, as SB2 will have less features than this one. http://www.esimgames.com/comparison.htm click on that link if you dont believe me. This is the most realistic Tank sim in ages. And probably will be for years to come.

[1stADCavScout]

Best bet is come online and get someone to show you around a bit. The community is very friendly and no one will mind helping you.

How, exactly do you "come online?" Just join the TS server and ask for an IP?

[RENEGADE-623]

exactly. Join TS and see if there are any games up or are getting ready to come up

[Mav]

Heh - if you used to fly Falcon4 then the features in this sim is not going to be overwhelming - Current avionics in Falcon practicaly forces you to read not only the Dash-1 but allso the MLU software tapes M1 and M2 manuals - thats 800+ pages of professional reading. And that does not even include the tactical flying........

So come on SB pro PE - soooooooon please :hallucine:

[meangreen]

One thing about this site is that I enjoy the matutity of the people posting. On most other sites the response to my post would be nothing but unconstructive bashing and no helpful information at all.

I have the game now, so I might as well get good at it ..... with practice!

[sages]

I played quite a bit of SB1, and I'm still getting my butt handed to me -- by T72s. (Ouch!). I'd find a good, relatively small mission (the desert one with T72s is a good one) and play it repeatedly until you get competent, then start to branch out. There were some really good SB1 intro missions that were like that; if you can dredge them up, they may play okay in Pro. I've also noticed that missions with larger than a company to control are pushing too big for managability.

[ShermansWar]

SB pro PE is Just that,a personaledition of the PROFESSIONAL program.By professional,I mean to make the point that several militaries use it to train their personell.

If we assume the sim is in anyway accurate, it begs the questions:Do you think you should:
1)be able to learn how to gun and fight a tank in a short period,
2) having mastered the simple mechanics of the game,did you assume you could figure out effective tactics to go with it in say, a week or so?

The lack of a server is a non issue.anyone can host a game, and we do all day long. The nature of the community is such that basically almost all games are open games,and anyone can play.Invitations are generallly not required.Neither is experience.That there are few scenarios included isnt much of an issue either, inasmuch as players can, do and will make their own scenarios and maps, and play them online and share them, or post them in the dowloads section. some suck, some are masterpeices.I have several hundred scenarios on my PC, yet have only made a dozen myself, if that.

I ask you, do you think that most people can train themselves to operate, then fight with, then manage a battle with a tank on their own?

I think it is safe to say that a hell of a lot of teaching,learning, and tactic sharing get done online in TS.I would say TS is a must have for SB pro PE to get the most out of it.

We EXPECT new guys to come online and play.We are waiting. :D The learning curve is a bitch,but is like riding a bike, once you learn you never forget. I suggest you DL teamspeak and simply come online.I would suggest that for all new players. we've been waiting for you, and almost all of us had some sort of mentor at one time or another.there are almost always games going on, all you have to do is join the IP of whoever is hosting, or if you feel like it, you can host one yourself.

i can say( again) it took me 2 weeks of playing several games a day to figure out where i was getting hit from, and then another 2 weeks before I could stay alive long enough to get a round back out.but you always get better asong as you play.There is nothing like being miked up in TS, playing with a bunch of guys from all over the world, and going at it.

A great SB player, GS McGamis once said, the difference between SB and any other game is, after a good game of SB, you feel like you need a shower.

Talk to other guys, get on TS and the game will become much more enjoyable much more quickly.Good luck, and I hope you can find some enthusiasm for this greatest of sims.

[Banshee-66]

One thing to keep in mind is SBProPE is geared more tward the Armor branch of the military as a training program. So yeah someone that has never been around a real life tank might find the game a bit overwhelming. With practice you'll get the hang of it. Most that play this Tank sim either are or have been around the Real tanks, so we know what the tank can do and can't do.. Heck when I joined the military in '89 I did my bootcamp and AIT at Fort Knox and was stationed there training officers on how to drive the M60A3.(By the way why isn't the M60A3 in this tank sim? lol ) Then when Desert Shield/Storm started up I was reassigned to Fort Riley,(The Big Red One) and was sent to Saudi Arabia as a M1A1 driver. Been out of the military since '92 and have not played SB1 for a couple of years so I am going to have to relearn some of this stuff.
I can't wait to get my copy of SBProPE and play the 73 easting scenario.
Hope you don't find this post as something trying to put you down or anything. Guess it was just a long post explaining why this tank sim might come across as be complicated. As I said before with practice, you'll get it. Maybe when I get my copy of the program we can practice.
Until then shoot straight and true.

[ShermansWar]

i would say, banshee, that you dont need to have anyprior service to get good at this.I also think only about half the community was in the miltary, and only half of those were in armor( i may be wrong here), but that would be an intersting poll to run.

[Banshee-66]

Wasn't saying you needed prior service to be good at this game, just saying that most that played this game was probably in the military. Or atleast that is what it seemed like when I played SB1

[ShermansWar]

There was a time, before I joined the community, that most of the players were prior service, so I am told.Since I started playing almost 3 years ago ( and I played online every day up until last November), my best guess is the community breaks down as I described. There are those who in fact lament the change in the nature of the makeup of the community, and that gameplay has changed because of it, and that because of this some of the oldest players lost their appetite for the game, beleiving gameplay had become unrealsitic.i think those who feel this way should seek each other out, and fight against hose who use tactics that the military ddoesnt use, and compare and discuss the results. for me the sim is a Lab, a testing ground, to see what can work, and what cant.

[Banshee-66]

Yeah you are probably right, think what I am seeing is like meangreen said the maturity of the players here is great. I left SB1 to play a MMO about three years ago. Seeing the immaturity of the players in that MMO has just turned me off of MMOs for awhile. I mean if your oppenent wins they say "pwned yo" or "I'm better then you" or if you win against them they say that you are cheating in some way. Here win or loose everyone has something nice to say. Be it good job on your win, or you'll do better next time.
I'm glad I am back.

[ShermansWar]

What is an MMO?

I hope to see you in multiplay when I return to it in a few months.

[Bluebat21]

I am also new to the hard core sim environment and more at home with FPS and startegy games but having said that I have really enjoyed SB PRO so far. I very rarely read manuals of any sort and have only skim read the SB PRO one but I'm still having a lot of fun.

I set all the realism options to low and started with the gunning tutorials - like the Leo and can understand the lase and lead function but can't get the hang of the M1 yet!! I have also completed all the brad sessions which are great I just wish there were missions focused on the use of maybe a single tank or brad without having to worry about all the other units under my command.

I have had a go at a few of the include missions and really struggled at first as I just wanted to remain in a single tank or brad for the entire mission. Then I figured out that I need to play the game from the map screen and just jump into the units as and when an engagment occurs and help out from there - although I'm sure my AI chums will tell you a different story.

My best score is only 300 out of 1000 and the game ended because the time ran out and I lost 40 odd units - it was awesome jumping in and out of different tanks and I even manged at one point to amsush some t-72's and use art support via the map!!!

For me it's not about winning the mission, I don't even undertsand my objectives or how to move my units in a sensible way but just love jumping into the action when it arrives. I like to sit in the unbuttoned TC position because I love the view from there but I have lost numerous virtual TC's that way and I appear to be just about OK in the gunners seat.

I've only skimmed the surface of this game/sim and am probably not using as it is meant to be but so far I don't care. To help me to continue enjoying it I need more simple missions with only single or a few units under my command and way out points already mapped out for me. I would also like to see an overall end of mission report at bit like the old close combat series i.e. you have won a major victory or in my case had my arse whooped by the AI team :oops:

I know it's not for everyone and I am also surprised about how much I do enjoy it - I have tried the flight sims in the past but given up as I can't get myself to read the manuals.

Anyway if you can still supply the simple missions for the newbie's then I sure to continue with my enjoyment of this sim :thumbup:

[dejawolf]

Massive-Multiplayer-Online. everguest world of warcraft, eve online, WW2 online, etc.

[Skybird03]

Honestly, I do not care so much about if I win or loose. Immersion and tactical diversity is so high that the experience to be participating in what's going on surpasses this ambition. It is a joy to even peacefully drive through this environemnt, that realistically it is modeled. Of course I try to set up a plan and perform in a way that I survive and win, but if it gets me face down - I do not care at all and start again. No frustration at all.
Dangerous Waters and Silent Hunter 3, Il-2 and Sub Command - all nice and well, but not en par - since the heavily modded later incarnations of Falcon 4 no sim has grabbed me so tight like this one.

And I still need to find my first major bug, ctd, or system freeze. Very few very minor irritations of which I am even not sure that they are flaws. Since years I haven't bought a software that runs in such a stable and error-free manner like SPB. that alone is worth a price of 100 $US.

Very well done, eSim! Currently sitting over my review I can assure you that the level of quality of your sim does not go unnoticed here.

[Blackmuzzle]

I've been having a hard time with SB1 which I only recently got, kinda as an intermediate drug ;)
At first I kept getting my butt handed as well, even though I found the controls of the game to be very intuitive and easy to pick up. After two weeks I'm a little more confident now, still having trouble with the situational awareness at times, but at least now I do win missions, and even scored several hits on moving enemy tanks with only the manual mode available.

Then again, I might be just the type to love this game: The more switches and knobs to tweak, the happier I am. There are so many cool details like the turret break sound, the hand-cranking... Despite the hideous graphics of SB1 I thoroughly enjoy it. I wonder why I did not pick this up sooner, and I'm very certain that the new release will be even more enjoyable for me.

[Ssnake]

I have to say that this is not an easy-to-get-into-sim.
I totally agree with you. If you have neither prior tactical education from army service, or prior knowledge about tanks, or at least spent some time to learn and master the original Steel Beasts game, you will need to invest a serious amount of self-education to feel competent with SB Pro PE. In fact, I must confess that I myself feel on slippery ground when having to work with fire control systems radically different from the Leopard family, or the artillery observer vehicle. (One probable reason is that I don't get enough time to practice, as surprising as that may sound).

My recommendation is to specialize. Concentrate on learning how to operate one tank, and do it thoroughly. The by far easiest tank to familiarize yourself with, in my opinion, is the Leopard 2A4, even if it doesn't have the fancy 3D interior yet. The commander's periscope is simple but convenient to use (and doesn't have as many options to confuse you as the Leo 2A5 TIM), and the gunner's place is pretty much straightforward.

Once that you learned the 2A4, try to gain tactical competence at platoon level. Create yourself a few simple scenarios with you or the enemy being in static defense while the other party advances. These are very easy to create in the mission editor.
Once that you did that and reliably win these scenarios, add a bit more complexity like infantry or artillery fire support. Finally, move up to a company team with no more than five maneuver elements. At that point you can load the SB Pro PE single player stock missions, and convert all playable units to Leopard 2A4. Save it under a different name and see if you can win now. Probably yes.

Now you could have a look into the 1A5DK. The gunner's place is almost identical in terms of functionality, but the commander's pano is a serious step back since it's more complicated to use. As long as you keep in mind that it's supposed to be used from a static firing position you may learn to appreciate it. Just as well you could get into the 2A5 where the commander's place is more complicated than in the 2A4, but also offers more usability.

At that point you will probably have developed a good understanding of the principles by which the Leopards' fire control system was developed. My next step would be to look into the M2 Bradley or other personnel carriers to lear the additional features. Finally you should check if you like the M1's fire control system since it's entire conception is markedly different from the Leopards.


With this gradual increase of challenges I think that you will find your new toy a wealth of experiences and surprising new facets. It's important however to explore the world of SB systematically and in small steps. Some people here may think that I am advocating the Leopard too much (due to personal bias) - maybe they're right. You can just as well start your experiences with the M1. The only problem with that is that the M1's fire control system is a bit unique and knowing the ins and outs of it doesn't help you much in the other vehicles. But most important for you is to have fun with it while learning, so follow your heart. :)

[congo]

MG,

This simulation has a very steep learning curve. With most flight sims upon radar or visual contact you immediately take the fight to the enemy. Its rather difficult to plan ambushes except for maybe comming out of the sun or in the case of rotary wing sims where you can hide behind ridgelines. This sim requires stealth, cunning, tactical planning, and a thorough knowledge of systems operation. Its hard to put an F-16 in a hull down position and wait for the perfect opportunity to strike. With SB PRO PE that is a necessity in a lot of cases. Bounding overwatch is another tactical concept that should be mastered. Route planning and tactics upon arrival at your waypoints is also of the utmost importance. Using the arty to your advantage cannot be over emphasized. The possibilities are endless, This sim is as much a strategy and planning simulation as a I'm gonna operate the tank sim. Put some time into it and you will be rewarded with many years of enjoyment.

[dejawolf]

actually, i would suggest starting out with the humvee, to get a general grasp of bullet flight, as well as general orders in SB, before tackling and understanding the
way tanks actually help to simplify these tasks, and exactly why tanks are capable of engaging targets up to 3 km away.
make a few scenarios wiith lightly armoured and armed vehicles such as the btr-80 and m113, then go hunting.

[Charlie]

This thread has the best title of all threads. It would be great on a T-shirt or a bumper sticker. I wonder how many Warning-theme bumper sticker texts we could come up with.

I just see the picture of someone coming out of a seriously hairy amusement park ride, vomit streaks all over his shirt, blood shot eyes, no shoes and hair on fire, going:
-Dude - This is NOT your average ride!.

Sorry for hijacking this but I think the title is great!
-C-

"Warning! this is not your average post"

[Zipuli]

So 2A4 will receive the 3D interior eventually? Language options?

Zip

[plummerx]

The small number of sp missions is a non issue. The mission editor is comprehensive and relativly easy to use. There will be plenty of player made scenarios shortly.

It took me some time to get used to sb1.
The complexities can be mastered, not in game fashion, but in training fashion.

As for me, (partly due to time constraints) I am meticulously repeating each tutorial currently, and you won't see me in multiplayer for some time.

Im not bugged about IP games, but if Esim could write some code to ping an HTML page listing current games, that would be nice, as I fine voice com stuff like teamspeak distracting.

[smangs]

Don't despair, I used to be a conscript tank gunner on the Leopard2A4 in the German Army for one year (that was about 8 years ago) and I am having a hard time with this sim also. One major problem is that as a tank gunner, we never received much tactical training, so I am at a loss there. The main thing to do is to keep practicing and create small tutorials for yourself like Ssnake mentioned above. That way, you won't be overwhelmed with the more difficult missions provided with the sim. I think that the biggest hurdle to becoming proficient with this sim is time committment. Most missions take more than 30-40 minutes to execute and if you add a complex planning stage, then it can turn into hours, which is not easy for many of us with families and other projects/hobbies. It might even help to do the planning stage on one day and execute the mission on another, so you have time to evaluate and think about your tactics. I find that it is easier to learn Falcon4 than Steel Beasts because the tactical knowledge requirements are much higher.

[Ssnake]

So 2A4 will receive the 3D interior eventually?
Not just eventually, but most certainly so. The model's complete, and beautiful, and we invested too much work into it to abandon it now. You're also going to get the interior of the Leopard 1A5. And then some.

Language options?
I'm not sure if I know what you mean. As far as control panels are concerned we're probably going to start with German control panels since I don't think that we have photos of Finnish, Swedish, Dutch, Polish, or Spanish panels. Given some photos, we might actually be able to provide at least some alternative textures that you could place into your mods folder to replace the default ones.

[Zipuli]

Exactly what I meant... thanks! The 3D interior adds a lot of "being-there" athmosphere.

Maybe the guys at Armoured Brigade would also like the interior so much to post you guys some photos. I can't remember what all those added-on stickers said. And actually I remember the original German ones better ;)

Zip

[CommC]

The biggest thing keeping SB1 and Pro PE from being a "game" is scenario design. The original scenario designers had such arrogance and the "realism" mindset, that they created scenarios designed to challenge and defeat all but the most expert players.

To accomplish these "challenging" scenarios, designers often resorted to "cheats" to give the opfor AI an advantage. For example, they gave Warsaw Pact tanks "super" ammunition that can penetrate the front turret armor of the M1A1. There may be some WP ammo out there that can do this, but I doubt it.

Another example is evident even in the Instant Action scenario in SB1. In that one, in my stationary tank, I'm having a hard time hitting, on the first shot, the moving enemy WP tanks, but all the while I'm missing, that same tank is firing on me, on the move, and hitting me!!! Do you think Soviet T72s have sufficient gunnery stabilization and sophistication to hit another tank while moving? Maybe, but I doubt it.

Many of the original SB1 missions were nothing more than giving the player strict orders to follow a given path straight through prepared ambushes, against tanks with super ammo. This may be challenging and fun for some people, but most beginners only get slaughtered in short order.

The saving grace of SB1 and Pro PE is the scenario editor. I and others have created simpler, easier scenarios with realistic opfor ammo and tactics. These are a lot more fun from a gaming perspective, and still offer the player a significant challenge. More expert players may find these boring.

Let me know if you're interested and I'll send you some. I'm sure many of these will be created for Pro PE. Just be patient and keep at it, realizing that most of these initial scenarios were created by and for the purists.

[YdnarB]

I tend towards the simpler scenarios just for the reasons above - time and complexity. For me, if you have an engagement while controlling a company or more, the computer spends most of the time playing while you run the map. Engagements with human control of a platoon, perhaps platoon plus section, make for better play, IMHO. Also, multiplayer with fewer tanks is better also. In the end, there are usually only a few tanks left anyhow, the way multiplayer goes.

I'm updating "Hold the Bridge" to be PE compatible and have a few other smaller ones that I'll be converting and publishing. I'd say in a couple months, the PE section will be full of scenarios. Another great thing about this community. I want to put some together just to get a handle on the new methods available to PE.

Just keep shooting and ask for help!

[Bluewings]

I liked much Bluebat21 's post . It reflects very well the way any newbie feels when playing ProPE for the first 20 times !

Few years ago when I was a rookie on SB1 , I used to re-play simple SP scenarios 10 times or more simply because I was learning the scenario itself by heart . This way , I developped my awareness and I knew where the enemy was , where it was coming from , how to react to it and when . It did help me a great deal .
Each of my action on a battlefield became like second nature , in fact I was learning how to behave in a coherant manner .
Before I knew it , I was able the second guess the AI and steal the TEMPO which is so important in battle .

6 months later , I was at home on almost every possible battlefield . It didn 't matter anymore how hard the scenario was , I was litterally kicking AI 's ass .

Then , I switched to multiplayer with the conviction that I was going to teach other my science :twisted:
BIG MISTAKE ! :shock: :oops:

I met people like Archangel , Sean , Dagger , Sherman , Lone*Star , Viper , etc , who litterally walked all over me with assurance and attitude ! :( :mad2:

I was a rookie again ...

To make the story short , SB is far more difficult to master than any other sim I had the pleasure to play , and by miles . It is the reason why I am still around .
Don 't give up , ever .

Cheers . :3starSK:

[meangreen]

This is very helpful. I will try some easy scenarios and see how far I get. Normally, as soon as I see the bad guys and have time to switch to the gunner, I see a little yellow dot coming my way resulting in this nice external view of scrap metal that used to be my tank :?

I'm very happy that people seem very eager to help out and this alone is going to keep me playing.

[Lone*star49]

I liked much Bluebat21 's post . It reflects very well the way any newbie feels when playing ProPE for the first 20 times !

Few years ago when I was a rookie on SB1 , I used to re-play simple SP scenarios 10 times or more simply because I was learning the scenario itself by heart . This way , I developped my awareness and I knew where the enemy was , where it was coming from , how to react to it and when . It did help me a great deal .
Each of my action on a battlefield became like second nature , in fact I was learning how to behave in a coherant manner .
Before I knew it , I was able the second guess the AI and steal the TEMPO which is so important in battle .

6 months later , I was at home on almost every possible battlefield . It didn 't matter anymore how hard the scenario was , I was litterally kicking AI 's ass .

Then , I switched to multiplayer with the conviction that I was going to teach other my science :twisted:
BIG MISTAKE ! :shock: :oops:

I met people like Archangel , Sean , Dagger , Sherman , Lone*Star , Viper , etc , who litterally walked all over me with assurance and attitude ! :( :mad2:

I was a rookie again ...

To make the story short , SB is far more difficult to master than any other sim I had the pleasure to play , and by miles . It is the reason why I am still around .
Don 't give up , ever .

Cheers . :3starSK:
...

:thumbup: BW's, this is a spot-on report, as if you were a fly on my wall watching me take my first crawl, to walk, to running, and then back to rookie when I finally had the confidence to join in MP.. with the exception of expecting to kick everyones ass.. never entered the equation.. LMAO

Take this (BW's post) to heart, lose the "foolish pride", we all take the same road, with its hills and valley's in this sim.

No need for over kill here, but the truth be known, as a civi pilot, aerobatics, some 1800hrs, I can tell you that going from single-engine prop plane to a Jet, is like learning again and full of sweet. Basically, like this sim, in SB1, you were "ahead" of the tank/prop-plane (the action). And in Pro, you must stay "ahead" of the jet/tanks, AI, MP, etc., as to be, get, ~ behind ~ a Jet (everything is happening "fast"), or behind in a Tank, the battle, anything in this sim, is gonna be a rude wake-up-call, as in "holy-shit!"

You're not alone, as this SB1 Vet has had to start on page 1, again, and start working on getting-up on my own 2 feet from a crawl, to just start walking, with Pro PE..

Some things that seem like it should be just pure fun from the get-go, are in fact, a challenge within one's self to overcome the odds.

Been there, done that, and back at it again.. lol


LS

[bewing77]

The small number of sp missions is a non issue. The mission editor is comprehensive and relativly easy to use. There will be plenty of player made scenarios shortly.

It took me some time to get used to sb1.
The complexities can be mastered, not in game fashion, but in training fashion.

As for me, (partly due to time constraints) I am meticulously repeating each tutorial currently, and you won't see me in multiplayer for some time.

Im not bugged about IP games, but if Esim could write some code to ping an HTML page listing current games, that would be nice, as I fine voice com stuff like teamspeak distracting.

If there just where a command line option for SB to start the game and connect to a specified IP then it would be quite simple to create a small app that acted as a multiplayer game finder.

[PS-SCUD]

The problem is, you can't join a game in progress. This isn't like a counterstrike game where each "round" lasts a couple minutes. Most multiplayer scenarios for SBPPE last between 30 and 90 minutes (with another 10-30 minutes for planning.)

If you found an IP for a game that was up, you would have about a 5 minute window to join that game before it would be too late, and you'd have to wait another hour or so.

You really need to come on TS and ASK if someone is starting a game, or if you can join a game. Often the host will go back for you and let you join if they are in the planning stage.

Steel Beasts isn't a hugely popular game with thousands of people playing it. There is usually only 1 multiplayer game going on at a time, and if you don't get into that game, you are out of luck.

[GaryOwen]

The problem is, you can't join a game in progress. This isn't like a counterstrike game where each "round" lasts a couple minutes. Most multiplayer scenarios for SBPPE last between 30 and 90 minutes (with another 10-30 minutes for planning.)

Here's a redux of one of the first SB scenarios that was ever played online. It's a small deathmatch that can be played quickly and is appropriately sized for anywhere from 2 to 6 players.

SB online games are like Alcoholics Anonymous meetings; you only need two like minded people to get one going, although more may be better.

[Redtail]

Sims are what separate man from boys.

[Pinetree]

That should be: Sims are what separates money from wallets.

[CommC]

Ok, here is, attached, my version of 73 Easting for Pro PE. Still needs some polishing, but if you don't have fun with this one.... dude, you need to check your pulse. :D

[flyboy]

I concure with BW on the difference between Ai and humies.Thought I was good at fighting in flight sims till I had my first go at Mp.Man I got so used to bailing out it got to the stage I could just about do it while I was asleep.Ai will never have,imagination,the ability to take careless risks.The ability to randomize their playing style.Plus use illogical tactics to "maybe " overcome a disadvantage.Think 2d tactics is hard.Try fighting tactically in 3d with multiple adversaries wanting to take you out.Most important thing is a good view system.Secondly is good communication between you and your allies.Thirdly don,t be scared to run away.A good tactical retreat is just as important as a poorly planned assault.Never hesitate.A quick bad decision can sometimes come althrough if your sitting there scratching your arse while trying to come up with a good one it probably won,t.Always be sneaky and think outside the square.Going O.T. 80% of the Hurricane losses during the Battle of Britain never even saw who shot them down.Keep the tread side down and the big gun thing pointed out the front.Your strongest armour is always the front.Peace dudes.

[Storm91]

{quote}
I find the missions fairly hard to complete...hell, I have been unable to complete any mission successfully at this point.

Do this open up the scenario and move all your units to a hill with alot of cover and concealment and open fields of fire with the mission editor and then save it under a new name.

This will allow you to attack when your ready not as a soon as you start a mission(gives you couple of minutes to move,scout,etc without dying).I know some of these guys that make scenarios have got to be officers cause there the worst BP(battle positions) you could choose... :lol:

[smangs]

I find that if I play the mission first in map mode and just control the movement of the units without getting into the gunner or commander position, it is easier to develop a sense of situational awareness and get a "feel for the land" and how to use it for cover and concealment. In addition, I find it very useful to use the View function in the planning mode and reconnoiter the terrain and find alternate firing positions and points of retreat (offense at this time is far beyond my capabilities, :-) ).