SB2 VS SB PRO question

[eric78]

Hello I would like to know what's difference there will be between SB2 and SB pro.
What sort of game play will be in SB2 and are they going to keep the realism of sb pro?
I 'll hope the new terrain I saw in screenies stay the same,but I noticed the tanks have no shadows :shock: and fx are a little cheap compared to the awesome terrain :P Can we expect some improvment in this way for SB2?
Anyway I'll wait for SB2!

Thanks

[RENEGADE-623]

this link should help

http://www.esimgames.com/comparison.htm

[smangs]

Also, why talk about SB2, when development has not even started yet. SBPRO PE was just released and they will be working on updating and supporting this sim for a while until they work on SB2. At least that is my understanding.

[Ssnake]

Well, we DID compile a couple of SB2 alpha versions, but stopped once that we seriously started to prepare the release of SB Pro PE. Once that the post-release frenzy is over and sanity prevails again in our homes we may resume a parallel development of SB2 and SB Pro. Much of the work for SB 2 lies in the mission design department anyway, and that can be done with SB Pro PE just as well.

[eric78]

Thanks for responses,in fact I don't know if I wait for Sb2 or buy now SB pro and what sort of improvment can we expect for SBpro?Shadow fx ect and when there is a French version for SBpro,I'v heard also there is a dungle to switch for install??
Thanks

[Ssnake]

The French language support will be completed (I think) with the first upgrade.

[eric78]

great thanks

[Lt.Speirs]

Is a Dutch language also in development ?

[Ssnake]

It's more like it got stuck. Any volunteers to carry the torch?

[Lt.Speirs]

I volunteer to translate into Dutch, but I cant do the voices

[Blake]

Could somebody explain what happened to SB2 vs SB Pro PE thread which was here just couple of days ago and has vanished now?

[Destraex]

I am hoping that sbpro PE will have no disadvantage over sb2! Just sbproPE being much more of a sim than a game like sb2 is slated to be

Is this true? Will sbproPE get all the new features that sb2 has

[Blake]

Well I suggested in the former thread (which was deleted?) that they'd ditch the SB2 concept as a whole new game, effectively release SB Pro PE with same features with added tutorials and perhaps some loosely-linked campaign etc. Sell it in retail for new customers and release free patch for hard-paying SB Pro PE crowd.
I'd like to see SB2 and SB Pro PE as compatible sims, I don't know what Esimgames gains from stripping features for SB2 since it's just making it incompatible with SB Pro PE - the maps wouldn't work with one another or the multiplayer. Even at it's current states Esimgames could make much more serious money on private customer sector if they'd lower the price down and remove dongle-style protection.
Some people claim that SB Pro PE would appeal only to SB1 crowd, but c'mon SB1 was game made by one man had crappy non-accelerated 640x480 gfx which was outdated the day it came out. SB Pro PE is totally different game which much wider audience than SB1 fans have been waiting for years - no need to nerf it down! just add tutorial and other stuff that makes it easier for people. Sonalyst's Dangerous Waters is one of the hardcorest sims ever still it's selling very well and went to retail stores from just net sales because it was so successfull - the point is: hardcore sims do sell, don't underestimate the public!

[Destraex]

WHat I am asking is that as SB2 gets developed a lot of the unfinished parts of sbproPE get polished aswell.
This way SbproPE will have all the features of sb2 but will be more simulator like gameplay.

I guess I expect the sbproPE crowd to be the guinea pigs for sb2. As new features come out we test them and they get perfected. All the while the sbproPE team gets the benefit of the features that slowly trickle out to be tested??

[Hackworth]

read the link Renegade posted. i think it pretty well summarizes the differences. i'm sure esim will update PE as new kewl things come about. they've always been great about updates and fixes. as far as looks and feel, i doubt they will seem different until you start fishing for those details that (in the above link) are not checked for SB2 like minefield breaching vehicles, and advanced FISTV.

sorry, but hardcore sims do not sell, not to the public. PE seems to bridge the gap between the Professional Edition and SB2 with goodies many hardcore types would like to have that are marketed more for the military and less for shoot-um-up fun. and what that pages says about training and all that jazz for the personal soldier. you know it's just cuz they want to keep playing when they get home.

[Blake]

M1 tank platoon sold well so I've heard and I'll be damned if that wasn't a hardcore sim - if you got good tutorials and perhaps a manual I'm sure it will sell as did Dangerous Waters. Quite a lot of people have been waiting for this kind of sim to arrive and I personally know about half a dozen people which are not that hard core sim fans but are put off by just hefty price tag and a obscure dongle.
And what's to gain with stripping some features from SB Pro PE for SB2 other than just ensuring their incompatibility in multiplayer...

[chrisotto]

And last but not least...

What would we do, if ESimGames decided that they have enough customers in the military, and that SB2 was something we would have to wait for, possibly even forget?

SB Pro PE is an opportunity to get something good, not just some downscale playable program that allows for cheating and "good graphix".

Why the comparison with Dangerous Waters? I don't call that a simulation, DW is a game. A game that might make you ping for a possible hostile sub contact for hours, but nonetheless a game.

[Blake]

Why the comparison with Dangerous Waters? I don't call that a simulation, DW is a game. A game that might make you ping for a possible hostile sub contact for hours, but nonetheless a game.

Yeah try pinging a contact for hours and you're dead within minutes since you've announced your existence for miles around. It's fruitless to discuss if you have not even bothered to play it. I'd say it has pretty big learning curve if you try to master TMA,Sonar etc. with hardest difficulty settings, one might as well call SB Pro PE a point and shoot game in comparison. But that's not leading us anywhere is it?

My point was that since the game will essentially stay the same in SB2 but due to removal of features it will be non-compatible in multiplayer with Pro PE. Esimgames will also have 3 different game platforms to patch and I personally don't like to idea of buying stripped SB2 just to play with mates that can't afford the price of PE but otherwise like sims. I would like them to be compatible in some ways. It would sell if they add tutorials and some interesting missions/simple campaigns and drop the price down a bit. But Esim has probably made it's made it's mind. Bringing Dangerous Waters to this discussion served the purpose of showing that hard learing-curve sims do sell and SB Pro PE certainly isn't harder learn.
Those guys I'm referring to bought Dangerous Waters and we've had great fun with it and certainly they would have purchased SB Pro PE if it was not for the price. The same scenario is definately echoed throughout the simming community and all now have to wait for dumbed-down SB2 to get MP games going. I know there's certainly community in SB Pro PE MP but I prefer playing with the mates I've played for years with.

[stuart666]

I think the problem there is that Submarine sims traditionally sell pretty well, look at the success of the Silent hunter series. Aside from a few ww2 tank sims, the only really successful tank sim has been M1 Tank platoon 1 and 2. And those had to dumb down a hell of a lot before the public would consider buying them. I cant imagine the average M1 Tank platoon gamer getting to grips with the artillery system as its currently modelled in SB Pro.

I look at it like this. SB Pro you have to pay more for a truly hardcore tank sim. SB2 is not a sim lite, but its optimised to provide a more fully rounded entertainment experience. I personally think in some way you will be getting more for less cost, which is not something I would have thought most simmers would complain about. :?

[chrisotto]

It would sell if they add tutorials and some interesting missions/simple campaigns and drop the price down a bit

As far as I remember, that's what SB2 will be about.

Whatever, you should know what you're purchasing.

[Blake]

Problem with tank sims not selling is that not many very good ones have come out since M1 Tank Platoon, I mean that take advantage of the hardware of the time and realism possiblities. SB1 gfx was outdated when it came out so no wonder relatively few people bought it. Other than that no proper modern modern tanks sims have come out, so no you can't really make a conclusion that they don't sell. Tank sims really are not that hard to learn, even conscripts learn it :P

[Ssnake]

You might be surprised how many bought SB1, but apparently far less showed up here in the forum and joined multiplayer battles. This probably because the learning curve was steep and multiplayer games were difficult to set up since there was no automatic "join" button.
This is why we were drawing the conclusions that we need to make SB2 more accessible so that people not only buy it, but also play it more and join the community here. We do observe the market reaction, and draw our conclusions. Graphics may have prevented many people from buying it, but there were surprisingly many who didn't care. We need to find a way to get them to invest a bit more of their time to discover the wealth of gameplay though, or we lose these customers. We don't want that to happen again. In that respect, SB2 must be a better game to succeed in a way that we'd like to see.

[Blake]

Hopefully not too many features are scratched off from SB2 to make SB Pro PE veterans feel uneasy since many of them will probably buy it because of larger multiplayer community it brings along, I know it's very common case that now that some SB Pro PE players will fail to talk their regular multiplayer mates into buying it due to high price. Somewhat dynamic campaign like M1 Tank Platoon had in 1990 would be one crowd pleaser as well as tutorials and crew developement but I really hope that does not come at the expense of cutting corners on realism and some useful features. I sense SB2 fans will have a long wait (year or more) whatever the case...that's I made these far-fetched suggestions to make that wait shorter. There is no competition of course for you, untill then I just have to hang out without the possibility to play with those regular buddies. Too bad but godspeed with SB2.

[Bluewings]

You might be surprised how many bought SB1
Numbers , numbers ! We want to know ! :P

Cheers . :3starSK:

[Retro]

Agreed.. you can't tease us like that :D

[Hackworth]

Hopefully not too many features are scratched off from SB2 to make SB Pro PE veterans feel uneasy since many of them will probably buy it because of larger multiplayer community it brings along, I know it's very common case that now that some SB Pro PE players will fail to talk their regular multiplayer mates into buying it due to high price....Too bad but godspeed with SB2.

I think you are off target here chief. If Im reading this correct (and please correct me if I'm wrong those who know), but PE will be compatable with SB2 and vice versa. What won't be compatable are scenarios that include features used in PE but not available in SB2. So, in a nutshell PE scenarios may not work in SB2 if SB2 does not support that feature. I get the fealing you are just trying to make sour grapes with all this "too bad" talk and "M1TP was a great tank sim" talk. okay, shutting up and moving out.

[Sean]

SB2 doesnt exist yet, but I doubt it will be compatible in terms of multiplayer.

[Hackworth]

ah, i was thinking there might be a patch released with SB2 that might bridge the two. In that case, I'm starting to agree with Blake on the compatability issue between PE and SB2. For some it's a turn off to have several installations of the same game/sim/prog going. And then what about the dispersal of the multiplayer crowd. "Are we playing SB2 or PE?"... "Wait no, that map is only good on SB2."...

ah, nevermind. too much talk about things that don't exist yet. :D

[Sean]

Yeah, thats not something that we will have to worry about for a while here.

[Blake]

I agree, it's too early 'complain' about these issue, however it's good to bring these thoughts out maybe there will be some kind of multiplayer and mission compatibility between the two after all if developers are listening and considering it. Not intending to bring any sour grapes along :D For a layman like me it would just sound simpler for all if SB2 and SB Pro PE were compatible when you think also all the content that's being created for Pro PE before SB2 hits the shelves which new players could immediately take advantage of.