Question about Range Score

[Mpat120]

Ok, call me a fool, blind, or slow.....why is it with a 93% score in an M1, with said M1 in a defenseive pos, looking right at the path of travel(from the flank no less) I keep getin outshot by a Leo on the move that could have never seen the ambush....this happens regularly to me. Is it just me or does the Leo just work better with short-range suprise targets and the M1 at long range targets in SB?

[Ssnake]

Well, the basic design of the crew interface and fire control system suggests such a tendency, but it may have been just bad luck.

Train a bit with the Leo to understand its strengthes. With newer ammunition, it's quite deadly, and the most feared MP players usually rode with the Leo.

It certainly has its share of disadvantages too - most noticeably the poor post-penetration survivability.

[Lone*star49]

...
Just gonna throw some stuff at the wall and see if any sticks..

Ok.. great range score.. but two things, first.. if you, or your host has all settings at High, the AI is fast and brutal, and in online play.. don't forget.. that a unit has two set of eyes.. gunners and TC's.. just a thought here in that one of them spoted you at the same moment you .. or your AI saw them.. and in a quick draw, Leo usually wins..

Just a thought.. nothing about your skill, cause we know you have the goods.. :thumbup:

LS

[Mpat120]

....thanks LS, Ssnake, just realy gets on my nerves, sittin in a keyhole pos and lookin right at the leo w/ turret over the front, and my tank never even tries to get a round off, the gunner asleap or what? I got another queston.....adreveated fire commands....will SBII have them to quickin the pace of short-range suprise engagements? A full fire command takes to long in that situation.

[Lone*star49]

... I got another queston.....adreveated fire commands....will SBII have them to quickin the pace of short-range suprise engagements? A full fire command takes to long in that situation.
...

Hmmm.. try entering any tank in the "TC" position.. then hit the "Backspace" key..

This sets the gunner at 1200m battlesight engagement mode.. and gunner will fire if he see's a target "without" waiting for the order from the TC to "fire".... :thumbup:

hope this helps..

LS :yltype:

* same for the Leo

[Hackworth]

If anything MPat, I would say the Leo's main ability over the M1 is to e abl to fire on a stationary target while on the move with relative ease. You don't have to apply lead, as in the M1 (automaticly it does this...), or worry about it. The leo judges the rate of turret movement and adjusts that as lead (simplified to my own undestanding of it :D ) As a general statement the Leo's fire control system is quicker and more forgiveable than the M1A1. But if we were to get the M1A1 or SEP in SB II or III then that advantage might get marginalized as the FCS on those models are more userfriendly FWIU. Personaly, I love um Leopard.

Also, regarding range ratings: If you were playing on another person's server as a client, his range scores were applied to all client players' AI.

[GsMcAmis]

Remember that just because you see or hear an enemy unit coming down the pike that it doesnt mean teh AI componants of the tank become aware of the enemy unit.

Try these things:
First, make sure you understand the perspective of the gun itself from all positions that you intend to fire from during the engagement. The best way to do this is to check your GAS sight with the terrain features around you. What you want to know is "If I move up to here will my main gun be able to shoot over this terrain. Then make sure your GPS has a clear view from that Location as well.
Then, when you become aware of an enemy unit, make sure your visual perspective is as close to center of the target enemy vehicle as possible...

In f8 (third person view) hit ctrl+(any lase button) you will see a symbol that looks like an asterix " * " this will make a reference point for the AI that says "Notice here... or enemy here" now this sounds pretty straight forward... but unless the AI perceives something there (i.e. it can see it for itself) it won't register an enemy unit (even if you can see it... a source of perpetual frustration for us all but realistic in its effect). So that method stands a chance of failing. The up side is that as you do this all units AI (friendly) take a quick look at that location (not just the unit you are occupying) therefor if anything of yours is in the area then any of those units may be able to get a shot at the enemy unit. So it balances out pretty well.

When in f7 (TC position) physically override the gunner and slew the gun on to target. As soon as you here "Identified!" release override and hit the fire command (do this even if you're in battlesight... battlesight works as billed by LS but trust yourself more than the AI). If the AI gunner waits more than a beat (literally half a second at most) before saying "On the way" or after saying "on the way!" waits that long to fire, then immediatly begin other procedures (i.e. Gun yourself or better yet get to some defilade or move to cover.) Always assume the other unit is going to be faster to respond than your unit.

When in f6 (Gunner slot) slew the gun in the direction of the enemy unit, have a finger ready for the T key to override the TC if he has bolo'd his over ride slew. Then follow standard gunnery procedures. If you see the unit has slewed his turret in your direction then make the judgement call: Fire or move. Assume that if the TC has already slewed you onto target then you will be faster than the enemy unit. If the TC has not slewed you onto trgt and the enemy units turret is facing you assume you are going to be slower than the enemy unit. At this point fire fast (wing it) and back up (and probably kiss yer ass g'bye... but thats the nature of the beast)

It also helps to familiarize yourself with the map (f5) and the terrain features in detail from these positions. Always have in mind another place to move for when you need it.

[GsMcAmis]

In regards to Leo vs M1...
Thats a debate that has been had many times in this community.
If you have good knowledge of how both of these units behave in the game then it becomes easier to respond to the vehicle that is in it's zone of strength and defeat it.
So I echo Ssnakes statement: You should drill in the Leo some to better understand it's strengths. Knowledge is power (No I don't have a kung-fu grip).

Now that being said...
If ammo is equal:
the m1 is supreme (for most players) at ranges from 2200 and beyond. This is because of the Abrams chobham armor. Think incredible hulk "grrr bad men shoot hulk... hulk mad!"

The Leo has the upper hand from 2200 meters to 500 meters. It's fire control system is more intuitive, the process for firing is halved most of the time in the leo compared to the abrams and the reticle never floats.

Within 500 meters the Abrams once again gains the upper hand. This is because in this range the Leo's louder diesel engine becomes a handicap and it's fire control system's benefits are nullified by being able to put the abrams into Battlesight. Standard battlesight is 1200 meters (as a preset on the m1). However that can result in an overshoot by the round at extreme close ranges. This compounds with differences in vehicle height (the abrams on a higher slope and the leo in a defilade.) When I am the m1 and I think I am going in a close quarters knife fight with anything, I set my battlesight to 500 meters. This sets my gun tube to be ready to engage even the closest of targets. Since my turbine is so much quieter than the leos diesel... it usually means I win.

As for my overall preference of tanks, I can truly say I have no preference. There is joy in tanking in both types and to me the best thrill always comes when defeating the enemy vehicle while my vehicle is at it's weakest and the enemy vehicle is in it's zone of strength.
Note: This does not mean I don't take every freebie and easy shot I get every single time I get it. :D

[Mpat120]

Tanks all, just wondering how something i see as imposable works, like I said in an earlyer post somewhere else, im a desert rat, I suck in the trees(yes I know yall know, and use that to yalls advantage). Trees are a hinderance to me, because i cant see whats infront of my face :casstet: Even in real life, every time i was put into trees my tank became a burning hulk, but in the desert, im always the last one alive, I need to fix this block or im just gona beat my head againt the wall in MP, because there aint many desert sne available. Guess I would rather have a stand up slugfest, than bumble my way arround trees.