Bino View

[SGT_McAmis]

Wouldnt an unstabilized view thru the binoculars be more realistic. I mean, who can hold a pair of bino's that steady over rough terrain. This is a cheat in my book (just like the external view).
Maybe this could be added to the higher realism setting.

Just a thought.....more to come...over ;)

[Ssnake]

1) Not in SB1

2) It will be adjusted in SB2, but don't expect dramatic changes

3) If the bino view is supposed to be of any use at all, it must be somewhat stabilized. Just think of the Shift+Lase tag; if the view was shaking, you couldn't mark anything with that. Still, in a moving tank you could describe the target, be it through intercom or radio.

4) Making the view unstabilized will require a better tank suspension model. Right now the tanks bob and bounce much more than they actually do in real life

[Keiler]

How complex is the model currently?
I had this kind of stuff in technical mechanics III.
If there is need for, I could see if I could come up with the needed equations.
Wanted to reintroduce myself into 3d inertial systems anyway.
My email is known!

Btw, how about changing the spot marker like it is now, to a circle of a certain diameter, so that you have either a nonstab bino, but yet a zone where you laser tag seen targets?
When spotting something through binos, the exact position of it is an estimate based on the user's skill...
hmm still there is the problem of a pixel hidden in the woods that appears on the map too...
difficult.
Circle diameter shouldnt be too wide, and the bino not entirely unstabilized, some sort of "damped" behaviour, i.e. bino follows tank with delay, unless oversteered by user.

[Ssnake]

How complex is the model currently?Pretty simple. Primitive, actually.If there is need for, I could see if I could come up with the needed equations.I was about to contact the UniBw Hamburg, they developed a model for tracked vehicles including slip, but if you want to do it, you're welcome. Saves me some work. :)My email is known!In theory. Unfortunately I didn't store your callsign, and don't remember your real name. Please send me a message.Btw, how about changing the spot marker like it is now, to a circle of a certain diameter, so that you have either a nonstab bino, but yet a zone where you laser tag seen targets?It's similar to other suggestions we discussed, e.g. a varying degree of transparency. I'm al for it. The blinking is somewhat counterproductive.When spotting something through binos, the exact position of it is an estimate based on the user's skill...
hmm still there is the problem of a pixel hidden in the woods that appears on the map too...
difficult.
Circle diameter shouldnt be too wide, and the bino not entirely unstabilized, some sort of "damped" behaviour, i.e. bino follows tank with delay, unless oversteered by user.Yes, exactly. With a wider field of view due to higher screen resolutions it's going to be easier to make the view shake a bit more. One idea would be to keep the landscape around the tag marker steady, and let the black circle around bounce. I guess we'll have to experiment a bit here.

[Rockape]

One idea would be to keep the landscape around the tag marker steady, and let the black circle around bounce. I guess we'll have to experiment a bit here.

Now that Idea would seem more natural to me, although the binoculars would be shaking, your eyes would compensate for that movement and fix the target, unless of course you were subject to bone jarring jolts, in which case you could simmulate that in the same way the current gunner's view is jolted from the sight picture when the vehicle takes a hit.

[Keiler]

Now that Idea would seem more natural to me, although the binoculars would be shaking, your eyes would compensate for that movement and fix the target

Hmm this only works in very limited conditions, normally the eyes cannot compensate through binos very good.

[colin]

Now that Idea would seem more natural to me, although the binoculars would be shaking, your eyes would compensate for that movement and fix the target

Hmm this only works in very limited conditions, normally the eyes cannot compensate through binos very good.

Well having used both unstabilized and stabilized bino’s (in a hovercraft in varying sea states, including Big F…..G waves!) with unstabilized your eyes can adapt for distant targets to create a fairly clear view, however they are useless on close targets unless you are riding in a luxury vehicle on the road. Even good quality stabilized bino’s can be knocked out momentarily by a large movement.

Considering that the game does restrict your peripheral vision and limits your situational awareness, I would say the existing bino’s are a good trade off. Trying to use unstablized binos in a vehicle will create eye strain. If you wish to create realism, how about doing as the manual says and don’t sleep or wash for a day prior to the game. I am sure your mate will understand.

[Ssnake]

Hail to the search button!

:diable: Raise from your shallow grave, my zombie thread!


I think we've all somewhat developed a bit of a blind spot towards this really annoying occasional jitter that can occur when using the binoculars. Yet, even though hardly anyone is complaining about it, most of you - come to think about it - will experience it on occasion, and probably dislike it.
Here's good news:
It's dead, Jim.
:men_ani:

[NEpi]

this issue might be more complicated that mere mechanics, since our brains are quite proficient in reducing jitter.
believe me, I've got issues with my vestibular organs now, and can see that clearly!
hence, I think there's no reason for jitter in the regular unbuttoned point of view.

now when discussing binoes, I think the problem with using them on the move is the need to stabilize your hands somehow. the hands don't get any vestibular information, and use only muscle tention as an indication for movement. this method is much less effective.

so jitter in binoes while moving should be pretty bad, according to the terrain: jitter of the hands while driving a road is small, but on uneven terrain it should rise dramatically with speed, to the point of uselessness.
admittedly, jitter on a computer screen might give you a headache, since the movements of the hands covariate with vestibular information, and so having jitter while sitting down on a secure floor will confuse our visual system more than jitter on real binoes.

when it's done, if you want me to assess how bad is it from the human factors point of view, send me a presentation of it, and I'll try to do my best.

[Homer]

Here is an open sourced physics engine that might provide a solution:
Open Dynamics Engine (http://ode.org/)
For a detailed overview, visit their WIKI (http://opende.sf.net/wiki).

I also found a TANK DEMO (http://www.tns.net/~mhom/files/Tank_Demo_3.rar) using an earlier version of this engine but the demo is barely functional. However, it works well enough to see the possibilities... Drive backwarks and ignore the tracks flying off, the tank will still move and the suspension will also still function.

[Ssnake]

What did I do?
Will this zombie thread attack it's master?

Noooooo! :shocked:


I just wanted to tell you that we got rid of that nasty jitter. Nothing more.

[ARM505]

Well, it sounds to me like Ssnake is saying the jitter in bino biew over rough terrain has been moderated/damped/overcome somehow already? Nice news! Eagerly awaiting next patch...