Cv-90

[Ssnake]

It may be about time starting a thread about it.

[Trekker]

It may be about time starting a thread about it.

sure is, tell us all you know about the release. Then i tell you all i know :)

[RogueSnake79]

All I know is that its an APC thats going to try and still some of the Brads glory.

And my brad crews are pissed! They want a fight, and soon. :)

[RomeoNovember12]

Ssnake, you're driving an ex. 9040 commander crazy.

Here's what you can do while you wait for the release of the CV90:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/RomeoNovember12/WaitingatKrkGameofKubbwithemptycasi.jpg
Enjoy a nice game of "kubb", a swedish traditional game, using 40 mm casings. Normally you would use sticks.

[Jester_UK]

It may be about time starting a thread about it.



I think maybe you just did! :D

[Ssnake]

I think maybe you just did! :D
...and for a reason.


Shhhh....

[Trekker]

...and for a reason.


Shhhh....

Now your just mean..

[Kingtiger]

Now your just mean..

yeah...

How soon?

I just camed to think about one thing... the CV90 is hyped so eweryone will think its a fucking tank and use it like that and then complain that it cant take a hit from a M1 in the front LOL...

No seriusly, I think we have hyped it to much, so eweryone feels you cant kill it..

[Trekker]

It will without problem take out a M1 in front, and can only be killed within 500m with A3 or L55 ammo. And it can acctually hover and change shape into a moose, not at the same time though (it would look to strange,hehe)..

BTW, the tankers at my reg refer to the CV90 as "Kinder Panzer"..

[Kingtiger]

BTW, the tankers at my reg refer to the CV90 as "Kinder Panzer"..

But that part is thrue thoe... same down at my regiment... thats pretty cool :)

[Jester_UK]

Now your just mean..


Nope.

Mean would be Ssnake starting this thread, waiting two weeks and then announcing the update will only be available at Christmas.

..... Now THAT would be mean!! :gun:

[Trekker]

Nope.

Mean would be Ssnake starting this thread, waiting two weeks and then announcing the update will only be available at Christmas.

..... Now THAT would be mean!! :gun:

Unless we see it latest monday, he's mean ;)

[rump]

Ok... do I need to cancel my weekend plans???

Regards,

Rump

[stuart666]

Nope.

Mean would be Ssnake starting this thread, waiting two weeks and then announcing the update will only be available at Christmas.

..... Now THAT would be mean!! :gun:

And only to Swedes who can prove they were born in a snowstorm. And drive a Volvo. :)

[Ssnake]

Awww, shucks.

Nobody looking for new stuff at this site?
:mrgreen:

[Trekker]

Awww, shucks.

Nobody looking for new stuff at this site?
:mrgreen:

Now you lost me :(

[Alan323]

Sneaky bugger :)
http://www.steelbeasts.com/modules.php?set_albumName=album28&op=modload&file=index&name=gallery&include=view_album.php

[Crusty]

Looking good, what ammo options will we have ?

[RogueSnake79]

Very cool :)

All but this part:

In about six weeks at download locations near you! :(

[Ssnake]

Looking good, what ammo options will we have ?
40mm APFSDS 40mm HE-frag 40mm 3P (programmable HE-frag round with about five different fuze settings) multispectral smoke grenades, I think.
May take a bit longer, though.

[Jaguar]

Looks VERY nice indeed!

[Crusty]

40mm APFSDS 40mm HE-frag 40mm 3P (programmable HE-frag round with about five different fuze settings) multispectral smoke grenades, I think.
May take a bit longer, though.


Fantastic, anti crunchie rounds,

Six weeks is ok by me, that takes us to September, it's my birthday in September, of course sooner would be better, but at least we have a
time scale to work to.

[Scorpius]

How does that lyric from Roger Daltrey go?

I want it
I want it
I want it

[Jester_UK]

Just out of interest, is there any particular reason for the 9040C model getting what seems to be quite a bit more attention than the A/B models?

[Ssnake]

Fantastic, anti crunchie rounds,
There's a bit more to it. TM Timed mode:
The round will explode at the measured range (or on impact), but 5m above the target. Good against dismounts and soft vehicles. CM Delayed Impact mode:
Round will penetrate a few mm into steel (ideally through a (thin) armor platem or a building's wall) before going off. Good against lightly armored vehicles or light cover (cinder block walls, say) AM Impact mode:
Goes off on impact. We know that from the Bradley. Bigger bang, though. TMS Spread timed mode:
A salvo of rounds will be fired and go off as described above, but in a sequence to cover a bigger area on the ground. Excellent against infantry behind a ridge line or other cover without a good roof. ZT Gated proximity mode:
To prevent premature proximity fuzing, the proximity sensor will be activated only shortly before the measured target distance. Good against helicopters hovering behind and above a forest where trees in the front might otherwise trigger the proximity sensor. ZTB Gated proximity, delayed mode:
Against transport aircraft, even a gated proximity might be triggered by a large wing, rendering the fragments ineffective. Solution: Delay the burst so it will go off closer to the actual fuselage. :twisted:

[Ssnake]

Just out of interest, is there any particular reason for the 9040C model getting what seems to be quite a bit more attention than the A/B models?
Limited budgets, limited time, priorities. The usual stuff. It was quick, easy, and cheap to throw in the A/B version while we were at it. It's more of a bonus actually.

[Jester_UK]

Thanks Ssnake.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't complaining. Just wondering whether it was time/constraints on yourself, or whether the model itself was considered out of date (pardon my ignorance about the CV90 series).

[Ssnake]

No worries, mate. (Argh! I'm being australianificated...)

I'll leave it to our fellow Vikings to explain the disposition of the -B and -C versions, and their use in Sweden these days.

[MatsW]

Thanks Ssnake.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't complaining. Just wondering whether it was time/constraints on yourself, or whether the model itself was considered out of date (pardon my ignorance about the CV90 series).

Both B and C versions are modelled with same ambition in SB. Then there might be more interest in the C-version because it's a bit newer, better fire control system and better protection. But for training needs, A, B and C-versions are needed. Differences (most of them) between A and B can be taken care of by mission editor/instructor in SB.

Some features from C-version will be in the B-version in SB, even if they not implemented yet. The mission editor/instructor must also take care of this.

Next step for the 90-serie would/could be the Forward Observer version and also the twin-barrel 120 mm mortar version.

For other nations, I think other type of gun/FCS would be wanted. But that will be someones else problem ;-)

We are still training with A and B-versions in Sweden these days. C-version is mainly used for international missions.

[12Alfa]

will it have road wheels that go up and down?

[12Alfa]

Sry hehehe, its no fun when it's this easy........

[Scorpius]

will it have road wheels that go up and down?

LOL!


That was too funny!

[ShotMagnet]

..I'm being australianificated...I believe you mean 'australized'. :)


Shot

[Kingtiger]

One thing I noted on the screnshots is the swedish callsigns A/QJ instead of 11A. will that be in as well with the cv90/strv122 update?

[Wolfman]

There's a bit more to it. TM Timed mode:
The round will explode at the measured range (or on impact), but 5m above the target. Good against dismounts and soft vehicles. CM Delayed Impact mode:
Round will penetrate a few mm into steel (ideally through a (thin) armor platem or a building's wall) before going off. Good against lightly armored vehicles or light cover (cinder block walls, say) AM Impact mode:
Goes off on impact. We know that from the Bradley. Bigger bang, though. TMS Spread timed mode:
A salvo of rounds will be fired and go off as described above, but in a sequence to cover a bigger area on the ground. Excellent against infantry behind a ridge line or other cover without a good roof. ZT Gated proximity mode:
To prevent premature proximity fuzing, the proximity sensor will be activated only shortly before the measured target distance. Good against helicopters hovering behind and above a forest where trees in the front might otherwise trigger the proximity sensor. ZTB Gated proximity, delayed mode:
Against transport aircraft, even a gated proximity might be triggered by a large wing, rendering the fragments ineffective. Solution: Delay the burst so it will go off closer to the actual fuselage. :twisted:

Out of curiosity, is the delayed explosion mode going to be modelled graphically?

[Jester_UK]

..........ZTB Gated proximity, delayed mode:
Against transport aircraft, even a gated proximity might be triggered by a large wing, rendering the fragments ineffective. Solution: Delay the burst so it will go off closer to the actual fuselage. :twisted:



But Ssnake......SBPro PE doesn't have any transport aircraft in it........ Or does it?? :Pilot:

[FlatTax]

Exciting stuff. Ssnake, I know you hate these kind of questions, but what are the armor values and how do they compare to the Bradley?

The in-game vehicle museum/reference you mentioned would be great.

[Sgt.Baker]

Army-Technology.com
__________________

CV90 Tracked Armoured Combat Vehicles, Sweden

CV-90 Infantry Fighting Vehicle
CV90120-T Tank
CV9040 Anti Aircraft Vehicle
CV90 Forward Observation Vehicle
CV90 Forward Command Vehicle
CV90 Armoured Recovery Vehicle


there is also some good information on each of these Vehicles.

[Ssnake]

Exciting stuff. Ssnake, I know you hate these kind of questions, but what are the armor values and how do they compare to the Bradley?
Both survive cal .50, have trouble defeating medium caliber autocannon rounds, and will immediately die if hit by large caliber rounds, or missiles.

Like the Leopard, these are all boxers with a glass chin (and should therefore be a lot of fun in multiplayer games). The CV90 has better chances against the Bradley at ranges beyond 1500m, but the terrain typically negates that advantage. OK, the CV90 can actually kill MBTs with its gun - then again, it doesn't have a missile launcher anyway.

[Crusty]

Why was the coax moved from the far left of the turret in the CV-9040A/B, to the turret roof on the CV-9040C, I can see that you would be able to engage from a really good hull down position, but it looks a bit vulnerable.

[MatsW]

Why was the coax moved from the far left of the turret in the CV-9040A/B, to the turret roof on the CV-9040C, I can see that you would be able to engage from a really good hull down position, but it looks a bit vulnerable.

The first prototypes had the coax still at the left side of gun, but was then moved up. One reason would be that the add-on armor will be better without the coax "hole" in it. There is also possibilities to change the 7,62 mm MG to something else in a future.

Of course, there is some disadvantages to have the coax up on the turret. When it jam for example.

[MatsW]

will it have road wheels that go up and down?

No, but you can open engine hatch by CTRL + E and then change the engine by selecting special tools from the recovery vehicle toolbox by the mouse, release what must be released by a lot of clicking and dragging and then lift it the engine with the recovery vehicle lift.

It will take about 30 minutes unless you are in MP-mode, you can then do it in about 20 minutes if you work in team.

[panzerschreck]

uhm..now you're kidding

[MatsW]

Second item is the CTRL + C

That will make the crew dismount and do all maintance on gun and coax. It will take about 3 hours in single mode and about 2 hours in MP-mode.

[MatsW]

Yes, I'm kidding about the CTRL + E and CTRL + C ;-)

[synthjocke]

only thing missing is Stridsvagn S

=)

[dejawolf]

and IKV-91, along with PBV-302... hehehe

[Kingtiger]

PBV302


yeaaahhhhh my love!!! (Its pretty useless, its more like a moving target but hey I love the green frog!

[Crusty]

The first prototypes had the coax still at the left side of gun, but was then moved up. One reason would be that the add-on armor will be better without the coax "hole" in it. There is also possibilities to change the 7,62 mm MG to something else in a future.

Of course, there is some disadvantages to have the coax up on the turret. When it jam for example.


Off on a slight tangent, as a complete civi who's never used a machine gun, how likely is a machine gun to jam in real life ? I see that on the CV-9040C that it has a covered feed/guide which I presume helps to keep the rounds clear of any debris as the belt is feed through, I ask this as I'm reading the book "dusty warriors" at the moment(thanks for reccomending it Stuart) and the chain gun in the Warriors seem to get an awfull lot of stoppages, always at the worst moment.

[RomeoNovember12]

Machine guns do jam. The Ksp 58 (FN-MAG, GPMG, M240...) on the roof of the 9040C is one of the better machine guns though. A lot better than the Ksp 39 (Browning M1919) fitted in the 9040B.

The crew can work the mechanism from within the turret via a linkage on the C-version, that will clear most jams.

[Hackworth]

http://www.steelbeasts.com/albums/CV-90/CV9040C_TC_int_front.sized.jpg

Sweet! It even has a Nintendo Gameboy for the TC!

I can't wait and Wahrborg is probably AWOL now if he's seen the screen shots... No, wait. He's probably crewing a real one ;)

[Ssnake]

Sweet! It even has a Nintendo Gameboy for the TC!
Navigation device, actually.
:)

[Kingtiger]

but on that thing to the left of the Nintendo you can send SMS to other guys who has a DART just as you, and spend some time having fun :)

we had one incident where one of our medic TCs got an warning... he had been sitting and sending small SMS to the other medic TC (we have APCs as medic transport in the mech/tank companys) wich wasnt room clean and some had read those SMS and put in a report :S

/KT

[tarball]

is it ready yet? is it ready yet? wah wah! I want my toy... :-)

Looks cool, can't wait to get a worthy companion (and superior) to the Brad.

[panzerschreck]

Will the navigation and communication device be fully functional in the sim?

edit:

oh wait that was a stupid question. you don't need the communiction device because we have a text message window. and for that naviagtion device we have the map window(F5)

[MatsW]

Will the navigation and communication device be fully functional in the sim?

edit:

oh wait that was a stupid question. you don't need the communiction device because we have a text message window. and for that naviagtion device we have the map window(F5)

Navigation device (NAV90): Not in the first stage. Probably just a display that give you the grids.

The NAV90, however, is connected to GPS and also to the FCS (fire control system). You can have grids and direction to target if you lase them, you can also give the driver direction to where to go and it give you information about the heading of turret and hull among other possibilities.

As you point out, much of this information can be gathered in the SBPro already.

The radio device, DART 380, the text/data device for the radio (ra 180), is not planned to be modelled. perhaps in a future.

The priority is to have the Battle Management System (SLB) modelled. But there is no time table for that yet.

/MatsW

[Trekker]

Is it ready yet?

[MatsW]

Is it ready yet?

No. It will soon be :-)

The GALLIX smoke (reduce/block IRV) is working and the "mounted combat" (vagnstrid) - the troops are up in the back hatches and observing/firing - is introduced and being tested.

[BipBip]

Nice !

Now that we saw an inside shot, can we see an outside one ?!

Thanks ! ;)

[Zipuli]

Hmmm... if they make vagnstrid possible, I can already see the PKs and AKs pointing out from BMPs and firing all around the vehicle when driving into enemy infantry infested woods... Now that would be nice :)

Zip

[MatsW]

Two pictures:
- CV9040 with four soldiers with the back hatches open in "mounted combat" position and in front, protection smoke from the Gallix system.
- Gallix smoke screen seen in IRV/TIS. The CV9040 is hiding somewhere behind the smoke. Of course, the smoke prevent the IRV/TIS in both directions....

[Trekker]

wow! you'r sure it's not ready yet?

[BipBip]

Wonderful ! Thanks for those pictures !

[RomeoNovember12]

Hey MatsW, don't you know that you're not allowed to fire the smoke-dischargers during mounted combat?

:wink:

It's looking great, can't wait, keep up the good work!

:cvcsalut:

[MatsW]

Hey MatsW, don't you know that you're not allowed to fire the smoke-dischargers during mounted combat?

:wink:

It's looking great, can't wait, keep up the good work!

:cvcsalut:

Yes, the TC have been given disciplinary sanctions. It was easy with those pictures as evidence.

The eSim with Al, Nils and dejawolf have made a great job with the vehicle and the functions so all credits to them.

You should however keep in mind that the CV9040 is made for the SBPro/SBProPE version and it could be a bit complicated to run as TC and gunner if you not familiar to the vehicle. Hope to have manual and tutorials to make it easier.

Best regards
MatsW

[AlphaSierra]

Looks very good Mats!

[Kingtiger]

one question on the mounted infantry thoe.

on the pic all are armed with AK5s (as usual with the infantry in SB)

But will 1 weapon on each side be counted for as MG? (thinking about the fact we have one MG on each side in reality)

so we dont end up with 2 Ak5s on both sides with no firepower.

/KT

but hell I LOVE this mounted combat :D:D:D

[cobrabase]

Hmmm... if they make vagnstrid possible, I can already see the PKs and AKs pointing out from BMPs and firing all around the vehicle when driving into enemy infantry infested woods... Now that would be nice :)

Zip

Heh.... heh....

Have you ever fired an ak through one of the firing ports on a BMP-1? First of all it SHOCKS the hell out of your ear drums, secondly you CHOKE on the cordite. I don't think we're going to see the (at least) the BMP-1 as a TRUE IFV in Pro and treat it the way most countries do... as an APC. I think the ports were faired over with extra armor or welded shut on the BMP-2. Zipuli? Wanna weigh in on this buddy?

[Trekker]

Have you ever fired an ak through one of the firing ports on a BMP-1? First of all it SHOCKS the hell out of your ear drums, secondly you CHOKE on the cordite. I don't think we're going to see the (at least) the BMP-1 as a TRUE IFV in Pro and treat it the way most countries do... as an APC. I think the ports were faired over with extra armor or welded shut on the BMP-2. Zipuli? Wanna weigh in on this buddy?

Mounted combat this way is the very last resort, either when your in a contaminated area or when the enemy fire is too large to fight from the hatches. There is a cordinte sucking device that you attatch to the rifle to get rid of some of the gases. The worst thing is to fire the main gun, the smell is the very worst kind..

[Charlie]

one question on the mounted infantry thoe.

on the pic all are armed with AK5s (as usual with the infantry in SB)

But will 1 weapon on each side be counted for as MG? (thinking about the fact we have one MG on each side in reality)

so we dont end up with 2 Ak5s on both sides with no firepower.


I think that this is just a limit of the 2d sprites. I think we'll have to settle for either 4 KSP58 or 4 AK.

We used to ride with one GRG (Carl Gustav RR) out one hatch. You had to make sure you had the end of the thing hanging outside the vehicle when firing... deflecting the backblast down into the vehicle would have been seriously unpopular. Fairly good way of having a rapid remote smoke deployment ability.

-C-

[MatsW]

one question on the mounted infantry thoe.

on the pic all are armed with AK5s (as usual with the infantry in SB)

But will 1 weapon on each side be counted for as MG? (thinking about the fact we have one MG on each side in reality)

so we dont end up with 2 Ak5s on both sides with no firepower.

/KT

but hell I LOVE this mounted combat :D:D:D

With current 3D-models of the infantry, there will be no difference between rifles and MG:s, but the "weapon"-model will have both rifle and MG:s.

The other big advantage of the "mounted combat" (what is this called in US/UK?), is that the troops support the crew with observation and target report. This is also modelled in SB Pro.

Later on, it will probably be possible to have one (two) man still left in the vehicle and the rest of the squad dismounted. If you want.

[Kingtiger]

I think that this is just a limit of the 2d sprites. I think we'll have to settle for either 4 KSP58 or 4 AK.

We used to ride with one GRG (Carl Gustav RR) out one hatch. You had to make sure you had the end of the thing hanging outside the vehicle when firing... deflecting the backblast down into the vehicle would have been seriously unpopular. Fairly good way of having a rapid remote smoke deployment ability.

-C-

Yeah we had some talking about that on our PBV302 when I was mech inf squad leader, but security officer decided it wasnt allowed, but we was talking about using the GRG as anti tank weapon instead of smoke (considering the 20mm AKANs low penetration capability)

And great news Mats! especially on the part where they will help the crew with observation :D

[mbv]

Wow - I go away for two weeks and Snake drops the news on our new beast. Interior modelling looks superb and the ammo loadout sounds intriguing. Looking forward to a cavalry charge in this one in errrrr, what, 5 weeks now ?? :)

[Trekker]

Wow - I go away for two weeks and Snake drops the news on our new beast. Interior modelling looks superb and the ammo loadout sounds intriguing. Looking forward to a cavalry charge in this one in errrrr, what, 5 weeks now ?? :)

Can't be more then 2weeks now, right Ssnake? :)

[Jester_UK]

Can't be more then 2weeks now, right Ssnake? :)


LOL

I thought the "Two Weeks. Be sure" thingy only worked for Oleg Maddox. I never realised it was an industry standard!! :wink2:

[Ssnake]

Can't be more then 2weeks now, right Ssnake? :)
Don't know where you got these figures from. "This summer" ends on September 21. We do what we can to deliver on time - but then again it should be reasonably mature code.

Current version count is 2.281.

[Trekker]

Don't know where you got these figures from. "This summer" ends on September 21. We do what we can to deliver on time - but then again it should be reasonably mature code.

Current version count is 2.281.

It was a joke, therefor the smilie.

[Ssnake]

It was a joke, therefor the smilie.
Sure, but some people tend to ignore these smilies, and before speculation runs wild I rather step in to avoid fact mutation.

:)

[Kingtiger]

how many weeks is left now btw?

My birthday is 24th September and the CV9040 would be a perfect present for me ;)

[Zipuli]

Kingtiger, that's my birthday too, so I second the wish :)

Zip

[Erazor]

My Birthday is on sept. 18th. So I wish it :-P

[cobrabase]

Kingtiger, that's my birthday too, so I second the wish :)

Zip


This is f-ing weird... I'm September 24 too!!!

What's with all these Libras on the cusp with Scorpio as cyber tankers?!!!!!!!!!!!!


How about a Pro b-day party?!!

The best present that day would be a dirtied up T-80. LOL!

[Scorpius]

My wife's birthday is the 24th as well.
My son's is the 27th, and mine is Oct. 3rd. Only the baby is the odd one out, hers is Sept 1. So what's up, do we get CV-90's for our birthday presents?

[Eisenschwein]

Must be allways cold and dark in December/January ;-)

My Birthday is on September 14 th ...............................

Waiting for CV 90 too, plaesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssse

[TankHunter]

December 7th here. Dont do me any favors with the update there on my B-day!

[Zipuli]

I'm sorry cobra, but the T-80 will arrive earlier... :(
But maybe for your B-day I have some cool camos for it! I am working only on the green one now, but have some nice camos coming.

Zip

[Crusty]

My Birthday's 28th September, there's certainly a lot of us Libras here,

Ssnake did say that Summer finishes on September 21st, and the update would be released this summer,

so it looks like us Libras are in for a good birthday pressie

[cobrabase]

I'm sorry cobra, but the T-80 will arrive earlier... :(
But maybe for your B-day I have some cool camos for it! I am working only on the green one now, but have some nice camos coming.

Zip

Way to go birthday buddy!

It's funny... We libras are supposed to get along with everybody... what do we do? Go into the Army.

LOL! We'll kill ya with a smile and make peace with your next of kin I guess.

[Kingtiger]

This is f-ing weird... I'm September 24 too!!!

What's with all these Libras on the cusp with Scorpio as cyber tankers?!!!!!!!!!!!!


How about a Pro b-day party?!!

The best present that day would be a dirtied up T-80. LOL!

LOL how big is the odds? 3 players on these forums are 24th September lol! :)

(pretty cool thoe!)

[Øystein]

Ohh, nice...

Now if only the CV9030 were added, since you already have the Leopard I and II the Royal Norwegian Armed Forces uses :)

[DonG]

Is there an official post somewhere that says the CV-90 is comming as an addon,and what are the prospects of other armed vehicles/units..
Having airmobile infantry/scout units added would be a great supplement to the existing tactical operations..

[Sean]

If you read through this thread, you will find the details on the Cv-90. If you are looking for a single post that tells all about whats coming, there isnt one, I think. You may have some luck searching through ssnakes posts..... Infantry improvements are on the list to be done this year, but I dont know what that will involve other than the ability of the infantry to take cover in buildings.

[smithcorp]

This looks very cool Ssnake! Look forward to giving her a kick in the guts (Australianisation!).

smith

[Retro]

LOL how big is the odds? 3 players on these forums are 24th September lol! :)

Not too surprising (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_paradox)

In probability theory, the birthday paradox states that given a group of 23 (or more) randomly chosen people, the probability is more than 50% that at least two of them will have the same birthday. For 60 or more people, the probability is already greater than 99%, although it cannot actually be 100% unless there are at least 366 people.

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[Ssnake]

Another new feature - developed for the CV-90, but supposedly available for all other IFVs except the Bradley - will be the ability to have the squads open the rear hatches and provide vehicle security as well as additional observation. You can now perform mounted attacks.

The platoon leader can give the button status for his entire platoon (except for those subordinate vehicles under control of other human players).

[Zipuli]

YESS!!!

Zip

[Wicked]

Great new features! Looking forward to those! :)

Cheers!

[The5thHorseman]

*kneels down*

"We're not worthy"
"We're not worthy"


;)

[cobrabase]

Sounds like its getting really close gentlemen!!

Sim just keeps getting better and better.

I'm guessing out on September 24th.

Any takers?

[Kingtiger]

I hope ofcourse for 24th sept :)

But any other news on when?

[Trekker]

Is it ready yet?

[TankHunter]

Is it ready yet?

It is Sept. I hope it is :mrgreen:

[Trekker]

It is Sept. I hope it is :mrgreen:

sure is :)

[dejawolf]

al is winding down. expect to see it as soon as he gets back, and packs it up for download :)

[Jester_UK]

Is he back yet?? :biggrin:

[Trekker]

What about now? http://bestsmileys.com/lol/1.gif

[TankHunter]

Ya, is he back yet?

[SFViper19D]

Are we there yet Papa Smurf??

[Trekker]

To long since i worked with CV90, but i don't remember the commander hatch being able to tilt so much backwards as on the pics, only straight up. But i could be wrong..

[daskal]

Are we there yet Papa Smurf??

it looks like this episode of Smurfs has become legendary in every country :)

[Hackworth]

it looks like this episode of Smurfs has become legendary in every country :)

Smurfette was my first love. the way she bats those eyes and wears that skirt...

So, did someone say we're here?

[Ace94mp]

Another new feature - developed for the CV-90, but supposedly available for all other IFVs except the Bradley - will be the ability to have the squads open the rear hatches and provide vehicle security as well as additional observation. You can now perform mounted attacks.

The platoon leader can give the button status for his entire platoon (except for those subordinate vehicles under control of other human players).


why not the Brad?

[Ssnake]

why not the Brad?

What do I know why the US Army didn't think it was necessary to have these kinds of hatches? It seems like the Bradley was a solution looking for a problem when it was adopted, simply for lack of a better domestic alternative. I don't know if the US Army had a clear idea of what they wanted at that time - except that they for sure didn't want to go on with the M113.

[stuart666]

I think the problem was that the original Brad had episcopes and firing ports for the infantry. Why do you need hatches if you intend to fight mounted from inside the vehicle? Of course that Idea proved to be unworkable, but you can appreciate the logic.

On the other hand the BMPs have such hatchs. But as seen in Afghanistan and other places, they have so little room to carry the dismounts kit, it frequently gets put on the roof so the hatches cant be used at all.

[Ace94mp]

What do I know why the US Army didn't think it was necessary to have these kinds of hatches? It seems like the Bradley was a solution looking for a problem when it was adopted, simply for lack of a better domestic alternative. I don't know if the US Army had a clear idea of what they wanted at that time - except that they for sure didn't want to go on with the M113.

In Iraq, we had guys fighting out the reload hatch for the TOW.

[dejawolf]

doesn't opening the tow hatch stop the turret from movement?
bmp-1's got both roof hatches, and firing ports, 3 on each side, and 1 in the rear. sweden didn't seem to have a lot of trouble doing mounted
combat with the bmp-1. they removed the malyutka launcher, and welded the 2 forward firing ports for extra stowage though.

[Charlie]

I think the problem was that the original Brad had episcopes and firing ports for the infantry. Why do you need hatches if you intend to fight mounted from inside the vehicle? Of course that Idea proved to be unworkable, but you can appreciate the logic.

On the other hand the BMPs have such hatchs. But as seen in Afghanistan and other places, they have so little room to carry the dismounts kit, it frequently gets put on the roof so the hatches cant be used at all.

I don't understand how they figured the firing ports to be a good idea. You just have to take one ride in an afv to understand that firing from that thing when moving is gonna be bloody difficult. Fighting from the hatches at least gives you the added situational awareness. With the amount of portable tank busting hardware we have now, I'd rather have the extra eyes and an assault rifle than the limited extra protection a closed hatch gives you. Anyone here tried firing through the firing ports on a Brad (or a bitmap for that matter), it would be interesting to hear what it's like?

The russians seem to be very fond of fitting as much junk on the outside of their vehicles as possible. It must be real interesting hiking around after an armored formation have passed by. Searchlights, reactive armour blocks, fuel drums and kit must be littering the place. We once did one dash through a wood, running down some small trees in the process, and we lost the gunner's hatch and the headlights. If we would have had any more kit on the vehicle that would have been gone too.

-C-

[dejawolf]

The russians seem to be very fond of fitting as much junk on the outside of their vehicles as possible.
-C-

say whut?
http://www.granddadshobbyshop.com/DML07226.jpg
americans got an equal interest in racking up their vehicles with all sorts of stuff. mre's on the front armour, barbwire, rucksacks hanging off the sides..
same with the abrams. the blowoff hatches are littered with all sorts of stuff.

[ShotMagnet]

I don't understand how they figured the firing ports to be a good idea.'Spray and pray'? I could see how spewing bullets about as you're trundling toward a hot objective might be seen as a good thing.

I could also see someone looking at a BMP-1 and saying, 'they've got firing ports, maybe they know something we don't'.


Shot

[dejawolf]

from what i've read, you're able to use the ironsights of the rifles in the bmp-1 while in the bradley you use viewports and tracers, and "walk your fire" onto the targets.

[Zipuli]

Will BMP-2 also have the possibility to do mounted combat? It has the firing ports which, if I understood right, will not be used (?). If you open the rear AA-hatches in BMP-2 it WILL shut down the stabilizer, but it's also possible to override the switches that cause it manually. It's just a button (that the hatch will press when closed) that needs to be duct-taped etc. to down position. The bad thing about this is that it may be dangerous for the guys in the hatches, but I guess that has not stopped Ivan before ;).

Deja, you're right about the ironsights, both in BMP-1 and BMP-2. The rifles/PKs are attached to the firing ports and you use the weapons' sights to aim.

BMPs/BTRs got firing ports because they were supposed to drive as deep as possible to enemy territory and dismount only when really needed/forced to do so. This included driving thru nuked/chemically neutralized (remember they were designed in the 1950-60!) defence positions that could have had some living enemy troops left and that's why it's good to be able to fire from the inside without opening any hatches - maximizing the vehicle's firepower without exposing the troops to nuke/chem waste. Even the firing ports are somewhat air-proof so the overpressure created by NBC-protection system will not escape thru the ports. The Soviet mentality was quite different when creating the IFVs back then! ;)

Zip

[HeinzBaby]

I'm looking forwards to the Cv-90, thou I'II only be using it for Inf. support/battlefield taxi.

I won't be looking for trouble in it...That 40mm auto is cool but for all the razamataz surrounding the Cv-90, its still only a 'hammer with eggshell'.
At least the Marder/BMP/Brad has ATGM.
and they're 'old' design.
my two bob's worth anyway..

[stuart666]

I don't understand how they figured the firing ports to be a good idea. You just have to take one ride in an afv to understand that firing from that thing when moving is gonna be bloody difficult. Fighting from the hatches at least gives you the added situational awareness. With the amount of portable tank busting hardware we have now, I'd rather have the extra eyes and an assault rifle than the limited extra protection a closed hatch gives you. Anyone here tried firing through the firing ports on a Brad (or a bitmap for that matter), it would be interesting to hear what it's like?

The russians seem to be very fond of fitting as much junk on the outside of their vehicles as possible. It must be real interesting hiking around after an armored formation have passed by. Searchlights, reactive armour blocks, fuel drums and kit must be littering the place. We once did one dash through a wood, running down some small trees in the process, and we lost the gunner's hatch and the headlights. If we would have had any more kit on the vehicle that would have been gone too.

-C-

It was one of those bizzare ideas from the 70s that seemed like a good idea at the time, like big hair, flares and group sex. :)

Its not entirely died out either, when the warrior was offered to Turkey they cut some holes in it so that the dismounts could fight from inside the vehicle, though why they would need to when they had perfectly serviceable hatches is anyones guess. The Turks didnt buy it, so they obviously were prone to bad decisons at the time. :)

I was under the impression to fight inside a brad you needed a special rifle (Xm177? almost certainly wrong) based on a stripped down M16 to do it, I dont think you could use an ordinary M16. In the BMP I think you can fit any AKM, though I think you would have a job using anything other than the folding buttstock model. But I think it may come down to intent in the 2 systems. The Russians wanted to spray and pray and keep peoples heads down, the US army thought you could do aimed fire using the system.

[Charlie]

I'm looking forwards to the Cv-90, thou I'II only be using it for Inf. support/battlefield taxi.

I won't be looking for trouble in it...That 40mm auto is cool but for all the razamataz surrounding the Cv-90, its still only a 'hammer with eggshell'.
At least the Marder/BMP/Brad has ATGM.
and they're 'old' design.
my two bob's worth anyway..

This is usually a good idea with any AFV with less armour than a tank. We had some good results letting each CV9040 platoon follow a tank platoon. The tanks can deal with other tanks and the IFVs will dispose of enemy infantry with the cannon. The different fuse settings really enables you to reach out and hit the enemy squads like never before. They might hide in a house or even behind a berm and you'll still get them.

We also hade some reasonable results flanking enemy tank positions. The 40mm cannon really shredded a T72 which had it's flank to us and with a bit of spraying and praying we managed to nail a T80 although we lost one vehicle in the process.

Even though the ATGM might have a range advantage you still really have to employ it on the flanks or the launching vehicle will be killed before the missile ever reaches it target. If you instead had a cannon that will kill tanks, in the flank, at over two clicks and you can send thirty rounds downrange at the same time as it would take a TOW to travel the same distance... what would you choose? If the terrain does not allow for very long range shots I'd go for the big cannon over the ATGM any day of the week.

-C-

[Gidenstam]

Now I can not resist to throw in some videos from conscript traning with CV9040 in sweden. The first one is from P7 in south part of Sweden
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3775462014337614767&q=i5+%C3%B6stersund

And two from I5 Östersund, in middle of Sweden
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4792537497601237043&q=i5+%C3%B6stersund

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=716153156138525792&q=i5+%C3%B6stersund

I also think i have a demo video of the 3p ammo somewhere on my computer if anyone is interested.
/Gidenstam

[Retro]

I also think i have a demo video of the 3p ammo somewhere on my computer if anyone is interested.

I sure am! Thanks for the link to these videos, most interesting.

[dejawolf]

The Russians wanted to spray and pray and keep peoples heads down, the US army thought you could do aimed fire using the system.

its the OTHER way around. the US has spray and pray, the russians has aimed ironsight fire.

[stuart666]

its the OTHER way around. the US has spray and pray, the russians has aimed ironsight fire.


But Soviet infantry squads were not trained to do anything other than pray and spray even when dismounted, and the AK series were not reknowned for accuracy above 300 metres. It was partly for that reason that they introduced extra Dragonovs in each squad to combat the Lee Enfields used in Afghanistan.
I think the key is how each system was to be used in War. The BMP was to be used offensively (primarily in a nuclear dominated battlefield) while the Bradley was primarily to be a defensive system. That probably says more about how both systems were going to be used rather than how the designers brochure said they would be.

[Kingtiger]

Now I can not resist to throw in some videos from conscript traning with CV9040 in sweden. The first one is from P7 in south part of Sweden
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3775462014337614767&q=i5+%C3%B6stersund

/Gidenstam


WTF! its my Companys Company Movie! Rudolf Ludvig !!!!! :D

Didnt know anyone had uploaded our DVDs to the net... we had to pay for our DVDs... :P

[ARM505]

But Soviet infantry squads were not trained to do anything other than pray and spray even when dismounted....

They didn't pray, they were athiests. Therefore, they just sprayed! :)

[Charlie]

Well it certainly took some losses being converted from the DVD... so I think your money were well spent. I think I managed to spot your PBV (RL91) with the E-PBV double turret setup?

-C-

[dejawolf]

still doesn't change the fact that us soldiers had to use the periscopes to aim, and tracers to walk fire onto targets.
maximum range would be less than 100m, due to the m231's shorter barrel, and yeh, the periscope thing.
the fpw is locked at a rof of around 1100rpm, so no accurate fire whatsoever.

[Kingtiger]

Well it certainly took some losses being converted from the DVD... so I think your money were well spent. I think I managed to spot your PBV (RL91) with the E-PBV double turret setup?

-C-

Yepp, thats my EPBV3022 Reg Nr 204710 (my love :) )

only spotted once in the movie, with our DSG right behind. filmed with a bad camera as well :/

and Charlie, you got your PM disabled or? Ive sent you one...

/KT

[Ace94mp]

doesn't opening the tow hatch stop the turret from movement?


no, it won't stop the turret from movement. we actually used to sit up physically on the hatch when it was open and ride up there like that. Until one soldier fell off and broke his arm. Then it was a no go.

[Ssnake]

...but in any case you couldn't have more than two looking out of the Bradley's hatch, and then only to the sides as the big turret seems to obscure most of the front white the hatch can only be locked in an upright position that blocks the rear completely. It also seems as if the hatch can be troublesome to open if the rear turret stowage basket is bent even a little bit out of shape. Finally the open hatch seems to be a collision hazard to the Bushmaster gun if there is a sudden target to the rear.

The question is, does it make sense under these circumstances to model this mode of operation?

[Zipuli]

...Finally the open hatch seems to be a collision hazard to the Bushmaster gun if there is a sudden target to the rear.

The question is, does it make sense under these circumstances to model this mode of operation?

Same with BMP-2 tho!

Zip

[dejawolf]

Same with BMP-2 tho!

Zip

and the bmp-1, and btr-80, and bmd-2 and mt-lb...

[Ssnake]

I think that it's a bit different there. Yes, the collision hazard exists, but at least the vehicles are conceptionally designed for open hatches operation. One indicator is that there are more than just one hatch for the entire squad., and that the hatches themselves are small enough to work as cover but don't necessarily block as much LOS for the squad's observation and coverage of arcs around the vehicle. In the Bradley the hatch seems to be purely to service the missile launcher.

Therefore the question is whether it should be made possible to activate this mode for the Bradley. It's primarily a design decision.

[dejawolf]

then theres the commanders hatch on the bmp-1 btr-80 and mt-lb.
it blocks the rotation of the turret!
although the bmp-1 is designed so that the commander fights buttoned up,
sb still simulates the commander popping his head out of the hatch.

[stuart666]

They didn't pray, they were athiests. Therefore, they just sprayed! :)

Ok, so they hoped for worldwide liberation of the proletariat and sprayed.:)

Interesting thread, why dont we talk about this kind of think more on Tanknet?

[Trekker]

then theres the commanders hatch on the bmp-1 btr-80 and mt-lb.
it blocks the rotation of the turret!
although the bmp-1 is designed so that the commander fights buttoned up,
sb still simulates the commander popping his head out of the hatch.

With a small stick you disable this. Same here, worked ok til a commander got jammed between the cannon and the hatch.

[netjens]

End of summer is....up or coming up? :-)
Is there going to be a update of the game along with the CV90?

[Ssnake]

Yes.

We'll announce it in time.

[tarball]

Ok, so they hoped for worldwide liberation of the proletariat and sprayed.:)



The proletariat is still BEGGING to be liberated...

[Trekker]

Are we there yet? http://bestsmileys.com/clocks/5.gif

[Jester_UK]

Are we there yet? http://bestsmileys.com/clocks/5.gif


Didn't anyone ever tell you patience is a virgin......errr.... I mean virtue:wink2:

[Kingtiger]

Didn't anyone ever tell you patience is a virgin......errr.... I mean virtue:wink2:

Sorry, it was all lost when waiting for SB Pro PE in a few years...

(dont bother about Trekker, hes just a big child, like the ones you have in the back of the car on a long trip. "are we there yet?" "I need to piss" "mam, my sister is beating me! - no im not" ) :D

/KT

[Jester_UK]

:)

TBH I'm probably worse than anyone. I've lost count of how often I've checked the site and forums over the past few days hoping to see a nice fat "download here" link!

[Trekker]

(dont bother about Trekker, hes just a big child, like the ones you have in the back of the car on a long trip. "are we there yet?" "I need to piss" "mam, my sister is beating me! - no im not" ) :D

/KT

A 115kg baby, thats me..

[dejawolf]

you've seen nothing yet...

[Kingtiger]

you've seen nothing yet...

oh baby you´ve see nothing yet.... 8)

But soon we will =)

[Jester_UK]

Could you define "SOON"...........:wink2:

[mbv]

And in the definition of "SOON" further break it down to month/day/hour/minute/second. Tankers like to be precise you know, even virtual tankers :D

[dejawolf]

unfortunately for tankers, developers do NOT like to be accurate about dates, simply because of all the unknown factors that could come into play.

[MatsW]

As I heard, the Swedish Army recently ordered the CV9040D-version (D as in Delay) that will make the upgrade arrive late 2007.

[Jester_UK]

:shock: :gun:

[Kingtiger]

As I heard, the Swedish Army recently ordered the CV9040D-version (D as in Delay) that will make the upgrade arrive late 2007.

Mats, that joke wasnt even funny! :P

But hey, I dont worry, it isnt my birthday yet, only 6th sept so a few more weeks untill 24th =)

/KT

[Kingtiger]

Unless we see it latest monday, he's mean ;)

conclusion: Ssnake IS mean, according to Trekker atleast...

/KT

[-=2RTR=-SOMNUS]

still no ETA?

No estimation?

Oh a question... Anyone know if this patch fixes FPS? Better sorts that out? It's kinda crummy when you can run TES: Oblivion on highest graphics and get around 40 fps and only get 15-30 with SB Pro on lower settings... Slower and scetchy frame rates makes shooting hard... Mind you if you would have seen the state of the TGT's we used in the Brits SB Pro is golden! So I'll shut up and retract my above gripe... But still hope! And Ssnake I'm not saying it condesendingly (can't spell)... but just asking a general question and inquiry... I love you guys... :D

[Homer]

Summer doesnt end till March in the southern hemisphere.

[Ssnake]

still no ETA?
Of course we have one. But since it depends on the testers' findings we'd be crazy to announce it only to bust it. As usual, we'll release it when it is ready for release.
Of course I can simply stop informing the public about ongoing development, if you can't stand the anxiety. Just let me know. :biggrin:
Oh a question... Anyone know if this patch fixes FPS?
No. If you are experiencing low frame rates, you should either reduce the screen resolution/window size, or adjust the detail and driver settings. Ground clutter seems to be the biggest frame killer, so you may want to start with that (Alt+D).

[Kingtiger]

Ground clutter seems to be the biggest frame killer, so you may want to start with that (Alt+D).

Well, many of the scenarios with low FPS has one comon thing, Max view settings... when I create scenarios I have it on max 1500m (you dont see further then that in swedish country) and that runs perfect on my machine. then I play some other guys scenario where theres max view distance and my FPS goes reall low.

And often theres max view when its not justified (like heavely forrested combat areas) and kills FPS when its not needed.

the lower viewing distance - the betther FPS

/KT

[3Star]

Summer doesnt end till March in the southern hemisphere.

In Northern Europe, Summer ended over a month ago.

NTM

[Trekker]

Are we there yet?

[Stratos]

Forget about the Cv-90 and release the crewable T-72 NOW!!

[Trekker]

Forget about the Cv-90 and release the crewable T-72 NOW!!

Hey! stand in line... :D

[Kingtiger]

Hey! stand in line... :D

Agree, CV90 first THEN the T-72

[Hackworth]

Hey! stand in line... :D

There has been talk about the crewable T-72 long before the CV90 became a wet dream for you Trekker ;)

I want crewable commie tank. Stalin promised me! Lennin promised me! What about this world revolution?! How am I supposed to have a world revolution with a capitolist-pig-tank!?

[Jester_UK]

How am I supposed to have a world revolution with a capitolist-pig-tank!?

Shame on you for doubting the the power of the proletariat to convert your capitalist-pig tank to a good communist-pig tank.

And what is this pig-tank you talk of? Wouldn't it be better to go spread the revolution in a Main Battle Tank instead? I'd have thought a Pig-tank might have been a bit smelly (and probably not as well armoured)

Go away and read all of the works of Marx and Lenin again until your revolutionary zeal is renewed.

....... Well either that or learn to recite Monty Python's Parrot sketch off by heart. Either's good.

:diable:

[Ssnake]

Go away and read all of the works of Marx and Lenin again until your revolutionary zeal is renewed.

....... Well either that or learn to recite Monty Python's Parrot sketch off by heart. Either's good.
I'd prefer the dead parrot any day. :biggrin:

[Ssnake]

I want crewable commie tank. Stalin promised me! Lennin promised me! What about this world revolution?!
Didn't anybody tell you these comrades were liars?
Oh, wait, that's not the party line... shall we say that capitalist saboteurs delayed the plans, but they cannot prevent historical necessities that scientific marxism has proven to happen inevitably.
:debile2:

[Trekker]

There has been talk about the crewable T-72 long before the CV90 became a wet dream for you Trekker ;)


Not in my wet dreams :)

[SFViper19D]

....... Well either that or learn to recite Monty Python's Parrot sketch off by heart. Either's good.

:diable:

"The only reason that bloody parrot is still on the perch is because it's been nailed there!"

[ShotMagnet]

...scientific marxism...You meant 'dialectic materialism', I'm sure. :)



Shot

[Ssnake]

I never cared enough about communism to get details like those right.


Coming back to the topic, the last element in the CV90 gallery now contains a three minute video where we're explaining some of the basic stuff. I hope it'll help shorten the waiting time.

[Jester_UK]

....... I hope it'll help shorten the waiting time.


It will if you're uploading the upgrade files as we watch it......... :men_ani:

[Kingtiger]

It will if you're uploading the upgrade files as we watch it......... :men_ani:

Lol big chance jester! :P

its aint 24th yet! :D

[Jester_UK]

Lol big chance jester! :P

its aint 24th yet! :D

Hey..... Can't blame a man for trying can you?? :biggrin:

[Wicked]

Thanks for sharing the little video! :) Looking good! :)

Cheers!

[Kingtiger]

Hey..... Can't blame a man for trying can you?? :biggrin:

thats just the words I say to the ladys standing there with a big red hand all over my face just because I tryed :)

[Jester_UK]

thats just the words I say to the ladys standing there with a big red hand all over my face just because I tryed :)


Well I'm safe in this case....... I'm well outside Ssnake's slapping range!! :gen004: :men_ani:


See? :)

[Kingtiger]

Well I'm safe in this case....... I'm well outside Ssnake's slapping range!! :gen004: :men_ani:


See? :)

LMAO!

[Hackworth]

Didn't anybody tell you these comrades were liars?
Oh, wait, that's not the party line... shall we say that capitalist saboteurs delayed the plans, but they cannot prevent historical necessities that scientific marxism has proven to happen inevitably.
:debile2:

and with the destruction of the Imperialist, capitolist pigs in their top hats, you shall find the_List! i will follow you to the very end comrade! (especially due to the presence of the KGB battalion to our rear!)

http://www.argenpress.info/images/fotografias/lenin_1921.jpg

[Maj.Hans]

Hey guys! Interesting, it's good to see that the infantry will finally be able to fight while mounted, and to have the hatches popped and fight from there.

Now...Not that I want to be a bother about the Bradley and the whole fighting out the hatches thing , but, ah, isn't that oval shaped hatch looking thing on the ramp a, uh, hatch?

Why can't they pop that open? It's the same style as the BMP's isnt it?

[SFViper19D]

Hey guys! Interesting, it's good to see that the infantry will finally be able to fight while mounted, and to have the hatches popped and fight from there.

Now...Not that I want to be a bother about the Bradley and the whole fighting out the hatches thing , but, ah, isn't that oval shaped hatch looking thing on the ramp a, uh, hatch?

Why can't they pop that open? It's the same style as the BMP's isnt it?

Yes, it's a hatch and is used whenever dropping the ramp is unfeasible, however fighting out of it is an extremely bad idea. Really because of it's offset placement only one crewman would be able to fight from it and he would be mostly exposed from his sitting position on the rear bench. Besides, if the vehicle started moving the very real danger of falling out the hatch and the volumes of dust flowing in through the hatch would make it impossible to fight anyway. I can tell you all with some confidence that the reason they gave up the idea of fighting through hatches in the brad was that you bounce around too much to hit anything anyway. The bradley is not a smooth ride, far from it. The shorter the wheelbase, in this case sprocket to idler, the bouncier the ride. While the M1 might ride like a cadillac at 60+ tons, the bradley is more like a dune buggy with the dismounts holding on and continually pitching around.

Oh yeah, they other thing about the rear hatch is once opened you are in danger of getting some appendage crushed by it until you latch it in place. It ain't light. And then the only way to close it again is to dismount the vehicle, unlatch it, and then hope you can pull it closed behind you (hope you are a big boy) or close it from the outside, but then you are outside and need them to drop the ramp for you.

Fighting out the top troop hatch is a lot more feasible but then you hinder the gunner's traverse movement and are constantly in danger of getting crushed by either the turret or the troop hatch itself (even heavier than the rear troop hatch).

In the brad its best to sit down, hold on, keep you mouth shut, listen to your headset, and come out fighting when they drop the ramp. Enroute fighting is the gunner's domain.

[HeinzBaby]

Hell,
I use to belong to a service rifle club for several years - (and a sapper in RNZE decades earlier),

Getting consistent "V bulls" at 200 or 400 yards prone on the 'mound' was blood hard work.
Who the hell is going to hit anything from a bouncing moving vehicle...
Firing from open hatched MICV's is 'bull'.. something a bean counter dreamn't of, stolen Soviet Doctrine.

Use the CV-90 as a TAXI, that may be able to take care of its self if need be..
Firing on the move...is only supressive,
and in SB pro does supressive fire work?...ie hit close enough, do the bad guys hit the dirt.

disclaimer:
I too am looking forwards to the CV-90 :biggrin:

[Charlie]

Check out the "vagnstrid.avi" at the link below, for an example of fighting out of the hatches on the CV9040. It's not for long distance sniping but it will get you through an area quicker than walking.

ftp://213.115.54.132/Film/05-06/

-C-

[SFViper19D]

Roger, TAXI. Roger.

It will be interesting though to see exactly how much the ai controlled gib's can hit from the CV90 hatches. About the only situation I can think of that would be useful is slow moving patrols through streets with the dismounts covering windows and roofs, a la 'Somalia Street Racing.' Knowing the AI though they will probably all be Hawkeye snapshooters.

Concerning other aspects though:

1. What kind of range does the CV90's 40mm have with it's various ammunitions?

2. How good is the armor penetration? Can it penetrate the most modern MBT's?

Sorry if these have been answered elsewhere already. Just point out the thread/page if it has. Thanks

[Trekker]

The main purpose with the riflesquad in the hatches isn't to fight from them, but to provide observation. We got 4 pairs of extra eyes that can keep an eye on the surroundings.

But they do still fight from them, remember this is a swedish vehicle, made to fit the swedish terrain, where combatrange is around 20-200m. If we hit a ambush we got weapons pointing everywhere, but we never ever (with the exeption of stupidity) plan to fight from the hatches. We throw as much fire as we got into the object, then we race towards it and dismount right inside of the object.

[RecceDG]

You'd be suprised at how accurate small arms fire off a vehicle can be, especially when the weapon is fired automatic.

A couple of aimed 3-5 round bursts has a good probability of hitting a man-sized target at typical engagement ranges.

Not to mention the positive benefits of supressive fire - if you can keep that RPG gunner's head down until you are in a better position to engage him; mission accomplished.

DG

[RomeoNovember12]

1. What kind of range does the CV90's 40mm have with it's various ammunitions?

Off the top of my head the effective ranges for APFSDS and HE is something like 2000 and 3000 m respectively. Decreasing velocity is the main factor limiting the sabot's effective range as I understand it.

2. How good is the armor penetration? Can it penetrate the most modern MBT's?

Yes and no, 100 mm penetration at 1000 m, officially. So you can engage a T-XX from the sides or rear in an emergency.

[Maj.Hans]

Granted I'm just a civvy puke who's too tall to fit in an AFV and too asthmatic to convince anybody to let me join, but, I'm gonna have to take a guess and say that semi-automatic weapons firing out of the hatches could probably hit a standing man sized target at 100 meters from a moving IFV within 15 rounds, with some practice anyway.

Fighting from the tops of vehicles is nothing new, IIRC the Germans with their Sd.Kfz-250 and 251 Halftracks were among the first to do it.

One interesting thing to me is the constant debate between "Battletaxi" or "Light tank". Personally I see vehicles like the M113's with the .50 mounts as battletaxis and vehicles like the BMP's, M2's, and CV-90's as light tanks with the ability to throw a half dozen pissed off troopers with automatic weapons out the back and act in their support. Just think that the APC's should have atleast some ATGM launcher capability, even if it's only a Marder style mount using their infantry ATGM in a simple little launcher it's better than nothing.

Can't wait till I can cough up the cash for this, or better yet, till SB2 comes out (*HINT! HINT!*) and I get to toy around with these things.

Anyway...I'll stand back and let the pros handle this...

[chrisotto]

Granted I'm just a civvy puke who's too tall to fit in an AFV and too asthmatic to convince anybody to let me join, but, I'm gonna have to take a guess and say that semi-automatic weapons firing out of the hatches could probably hit a standing man sized target at 100 meters from a moving IFV within 15 rounds, with some practice anyway.


Standing in the shooting box and hitting a man sized target is no big deal.

Running a few hundred meters with your combat pack and then trying to hit a man sized target, even if it does not shoot back at you, is something entirely different.

Now try that on a cramped, bucking AFV. I can tell you, once the AFV rolls, you're looking for any way not to fall off and to get too many bruises.

The ability to look out is not to get marksmanship medals, but to put extra suppressive firepower out on to the battlefield.

[Maj.Hans]

Well, I've never tried shooting anything from a moving AFV, or after running a few hundred meters with a combat pack, but I do shoot quite a bit...I'm no expert but I'm pretty darn good, but I figure a trained soldier would have a better chance of hitting something while moving though, they probably get more time to try that then me.

I'll take your word for it when it comes to getting tossed out of AFV's, all the films I see of them when they're rolling along show some nice bouncy action when they get up to speed. I guess terrain and movement speed has everything to do with the ability to engage while moving?

[SFViper19D]

Off the top of my head the effective ranges for APFSDS and HE is something like 2000 and 3000 m respectively. Decreasing velocity is the main factor limiting the sabot's effective range as I understand it.



Yes and no, 100 mm penetration at 1000 m, officially. So you can engage a T-XX from the sides or rear in an emergency.

Thanks!

[chrisotto]

Well, I've never tried shooting anything from a moving AFV, or after running a few hundred meters with a combat pack, but I do shoot quite a bit...I'm no expert but I'm pretty darn good, but I figure a trained soldier would have a better chance of hitting something while moving though, they probably get more time to try that then me.

I'll take your word for it when it comes to getting tossed out of AFV's, all the films I see of them when they're rolling along show some nice bouncy action when they get up to speed. I guess terrain and movement speed has everything to do with the ability to engage while moving?


If you do have the chance at your shooting range, try running a distance, then shooting at targets at 100m, 200m, 300m. Believe me, there is a difference between shooting at a range at targets 300m away while lying comfortably and being able to adjust your breathing and without pressure and with your heart pumping like mad, the iron sights circling the target and shots off target.

Well... apart from this year, I messed up my annual shooting test, scoring less than the minimum - a total embarassment. Now apparently, I need to report to take shooting lessons.

I'd love to post some new photos and videos from this year's service, including some videos driving around terrain and the loading / firing sequence; however, the gallery does not work right now.

[Kingtiger]

about the accurace when firing on the move, one thing you should not forget is that we dont fire when the CV90 is running top speed...

There is a upper limit how fast the driver are allowed to drive while doing mounted combat from the hatches (think its 15km/h or so, not sure thoe)

and that the fighting distance is at most 100m, mostly below that.

The idea with mounted combat isnt to secure the area but to get thrue it. so you supress the enemy while you pass him so he dont fire RPGs on you and then move on. instead of being forced to dismount the infantry to clear the patch.

last time in the army I was gunner on the quarter masters APC in a Mech inf company using CV90 and when the mech platoons had combat practice my platoon was often the enemy forces using MGs and AT4s and BT system on us, and we had some rough fighting, but there was plenty of times when my west started beeping after being hit from MGs that was fired by infantry fighting from the hatches.

So the whole idea with fighting mounted and firing from a moving IFV isnt that stupid. but ofcourse it isnt the safest thing to do, be sitting in a bullet magnete... (myself I have taken out all infantry that was mounted on 3 CV90s with BT system from 100m in a ambush so I have proven the infantry to be vulnerebal as well :) )
/KT

[Grenny]

...

(myself I have taken out all infantry that was mounted on 3 CV90s with BT system from 100m in a ambush so I have proven the infantry to be vulnerebal as well :) )
/KT

With what weapon? (rifle? MG?)
Did you stop them before engaging...or did you get them on the move?

[Kingtiger]

With what weapon? (rifle? MG?)
Did you stop them before engaging...or did you get them on the move?

On the move,with MG. Ksp 58B.

2nd Platoon was practecing to brake thrue forest parts along a road. me and one guy with AT4 was ordered to ambush them.

the platoon advanced on behind eachother, 3 CV90 with 4 man mounted on each CV90, 1 squadleader and one MG gunner on each side.

I was positioned at their 3 o clock 80-100meters away behind a tree with a 1m hill seperating them from me when they moved up. so I opend fire when the first 90 had past, so I was on their 4-5 o clock, got all infantry,the IFV continued away from my covering arc (the arc was just 25-50m i wide) and 50m after the first camed the 2nd and got same treathment and then the 3rd.

when No1 was being fired upon No2 couldnt see from where because of that small 1m hill on my left side wich blocked the view for the Gunner/infantry.

I was pretty proud over that BattlePosition, exept from that I could only crawl away in 20cm snow with a MG to escape :P

[chrisotto]

about the accurace when firing on the move, one thing you should not forget is that we dont fire when the CV90 is running top speed...

There is a upper limit how fast the driver are allowed to drive while doing mounted combat from the hatches (think its 15km/h or so, not sure thoe)

and that the fighting distance is at most 100m, mostly below that.

The idea with mounted combat isnt to secure the area but to get thrue it. so you supress the enemy while you pass him so he dont fire RPGs on you and then move on. instead of being forced to dismount the infantry to clear the patch.
/KT

If you ask me, driving 15kmph is not really getting through anything, but more or less exposing yourself to more fire, providing a slow moving target.

Thinking about that, a direct shot from a M109 could easily hit you at 15kmph, but not at 40-60 - the turret's too slow.

I'd concur with you that the mounted combat thing is for suppression, not for actual "destruction" of the enemy.

[Kingtiger]

If you ask me, driving 15kmph is not really getting through anything, but more or less exposing yourself to more fire, providing a slow moving target.

Thinking about that, a direct shot from a M109 could easily hit you at 15kmph, but not at 40-60 - the turret's too slow.

I'd concur with you that the mounted combat thing is for suppression, not for actual "destruction" of the enemy.

I dont worry for the slow speed, in most cases the suppresion do its work.

mounted combat is done in woods or urban areas where the enemy usualy dont have 1km open field to fire on, so the visibility are pretty low when using mounted combat, around 100m or to the sides, can be more to the front ofcourse (along the roads in the woods) or in a city street.

I think its a debate that can never end due to different views on how to fight.


But my personal opinion is dubbel. ive been in the army twice, first time 2001 when we had PBV302 and that APC we used as TAXI and hardly anything more (there had to be low resistance to conduct mounted combat, but we did it from time to time)

last time was 2003 and by then my Company had CV90 and overall, they seemed to have lower casualty rate and still got the enemy, if it was to messy in the area the infantry dismounted and cleared it on foot with the support of the CV90.

If I had to choose thoe I think I would pic a CV90 and move thrue the target firing like mad, and if needed go back and clear up the rest dismounted.

when we used PBV302 we always (or almost) had to dismount in ewery combat and fight on foot wich enabled the enemy to tie us down more where the CV90 moves thrue with mounted combat, takes the area, then dismounts and clears it, or takes the area once again with the CV90.


During 2003-2004 I was the APC gunner of the Quartermaster APC wich covers the Medic APC and repair vehicle, and when we moved in to take care of a damaged CV90 or infantry we moved thrue areas that just (under 15 mins) been taken by the company and only once in 3 months of Company/battalion drilling did I need to fight us thrue to the company.

I think it clearly shows that mounted combat works. (Yeah, I hated it, only fight once in 3 months is fucking boring!)

But never expect to actually clear anything with mounted combat, it will only make you get thrue a area, not securing it.

Hmm, feels like after a hit from a M109 my Platoons services would be unneeded on those poor bastards in the CV90 :P

/KT

[Kamatz]

To me there seems to be one aspect forgotten by some; no one's saying the CV90 users have drive around at 15kph with four heads sticking out back. It's an option. Norway tested what there was to test of IFVs a few years back, the test included the Bradley, Warrior, ASCOD and a couple of others - none could match the CV90 with regards to mobility. It was the only IFV capable of keeping up with our Leo1s in the rugged terraine we have up here in the north.

The initial test was done in 1992. After that, three vehicles remained: ASCOD, Bradley and CV90. The following year all eyes were on the CV90.

So my humble point is, the CV90 allows you fight with mounted troops. It doesn't mean you have to.

As for dumping a 155mm shell on a moving target from 30km+...a wee bit optimistic, I'd say. Unless the target was driving down a long, straight line in open terraine..but that wouldn't really be the typical place for infantry to poke their heads out, either, would it?

[jens198]

While we wait here for the CV90 and the Str122, something different. Both tanks in Operation Flashpoint/Sweden Mod

Jens

P.S. I remember a rumor some years ago that the swedish army used OFP and the mod mentioned above? Is/was that true?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v161/jens198/122.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v161/jens198/cv901.jpg

[MatsW]

...To me there seems to be one aspect forgotten by some; no one's saying the CV90 users have drive around at 15kph with four heads sticking out back.....

The 15 km/h is a Swedish basic safety regulation when training with live fire from the hatches. It's another thing when using the technique in combat.

[chrisotto]

As for dumping a 155mm shell on a moving target from 30km+...a wee bit optimistic, I'd say. Unless the target was driving down a long, straight line in open terraine..but that wouldn't really be the typical place for infantry to poke their heads out, either, would it?

I was talking about a direct shot, i.e. 0 elevation, maximum propellant charge, at distances up to 1200m.

Only in self defence, btw.

[BlackDeath]

P.S. I remember a rumor some years ago that the swedish army used OFP and the mod mentioned above? Is/was that true?
I heard the french army did so, but im not sure about that

[Jester_UK]

how many weeks is left now btw?

My birthday is 24th September and the CV9040 would be a perfect present for me ;)


Hmm...... Looks like you might not be getting that birthday present afterall.....:wink2:

[Kingtiger]

Hmm...... Looks like you might not be getting that birthday present afterall.....:wink2:

It isnt 24th Yet! there is still hope! and If I dont get it I will blame YOU for it! ;)

[Jester_UK]

It isnt 24th Yet! there is still hope!

Not unless Ssnake and Co are working weekends.

and If I dont get it I will blame YOU for it! ;)

That's fine. I'm used to getting blamed for everything...... I'm married!! :casstet:


Anyway, incase The upgrade doesn't arrive I got this for you..... :present:

Happy birthday for Sunday! :)

[MatsW]

While we wait here for the CV90 and the Str122, something different. Both tanks in Operation Flashpoint/Sweden Mod

Jens

P.S. I remember a rumor some years ago that the swedish army used OFP and the mod mentioned above? Is/was that true?

Yes, Army Combat School still use the OFP/Swedish Forces Pack (SFP) besides VBS and SteelBeasts Pro. Also looking at the Battlefield 2 and also scanning the market for new sims.

SteelBeasts Pro is the main simulation. The others is used for low level infantry, amphibiuos, airborne cooperations and when we need to simulate the civilians.

THe objective is to have all units in Sweden connected with their "TacLabs" in a TacSimNetwork in two-three years from now.

[Ssnake]

Not unless Ssnake and Co are working weekends.
We are, at least one day (and often both), but 24th is impossible. We may need to delay the release a week into October actually, should the beta testers find a lot.

[Jester_UK]

No worries Ssnake, you know we're just kidding around, but thanks for the update.

Only problem is I've now got a wife with a black belt in Tai Kwon Do and a Viking both pissed at me. If you don't get that update out soon I might not live to see it! :(

[Kingtiger]

No worries Ssnake, you know we're just kidding around, but thanks for the update.

Only problem is I've now got a wife with a black belt in Tai Kwon Do and a Viking both pissed at me. If you don't get that update out soon I might not live to see it! :(

you wont... *evil grin*

Kingtiger walks away wisthling "singing in the rain" with a umbrella under his arm...

[Storm91]

It will without problem take out a M1 in front, and can only be killed within 500m with A3 or L55 ammo. And it can acctually hover and change shape into a moose, not at the same time though (it would look to strange,hehe)..

BTW, the tankers at my reg refer to the CV90 as "Kinder Panzer"..


Roflmao i could kill it at 3500m with 25 mm moving at 45kph with an M2A1-proven

[chrisotto]

No worries Ssnake, you know we're just kidding around, but thanks for the update.

Only problem is I've now got a wife with a black belt in Tai Kwon Do and a Viking both pissed at me. If you don't get that update out soon I might not live to see it! :(
Hehe, I'll take care of sparring, if you want me to. However, I'm 1-2 gups lower than her...

[Jester_UK]

Hehe, I'll take care of sparring, if you want me to. However, I'm 1-2 gups lower than her...

Thanks for the offer. I'll keep it in mind.

TBH though I'm more worried about KingTiger. Judging from his post above, I reckon he's building a longboat as I type!! :biggrin:

[Kingtiger]

Thanks for the offer. I'll keep it in mind.

TBH though I'm more worried about KingTiger. Judging from his post above, I reckon he's building a longboat as I type!! :biggrin:

Me? Noooooo...... *hides a blueprint behind hes back*