AI hull-down

[Haferja]

Hello guys,

i've a little note concerning the hull-down positions of ai-tank crews.

esspecially when the hills are relatively flat (eg in cavalry to rescue) the ai tank commanders are going a little bit to far when positioning to an hull down position.
When i take over the gunner position i've always drive a few feet backwards to safe my tank.
But i can onbly command one tank.....
mmhhh...
:(
I know that i have to place the bp a little bit before the top optimal position.
But this doesn't help. :(

Any ideas?

Cheers,
Hafer

;)

[Lone*star49]

Hello guys,
When i take over the gunner position i've always drive a few feet backwards to safe my tank.
But i can onbly command one tank.....
mmhhh...
:(
I know that i have to place the bp a little bit before the top optimal position.
But this doesn't help. :(

Any ideas?

Cheers,
Hafer

;)

...

Yep.. a couple: First, if you have a unit of tanks on the same BP.. if you move your tank (as Co) back, the rest will back up the same as you in a line BP..

Second: what you can do rather than set a BP.. just route them there.. or if you want to make sure that they are facing the BP you want.. set a defence, guard, etc.. mode.. once they get there and set up, go back into tactics, and change it to "none" and place them exactly where you want them..

Good Hunting..

LS ;)

[Winder]

In a defence situation though setting the tactics to none has it's own disadvantage ( I think) in that if you set the tactics to defend they will retreat from an ICM barragre and if you set it to Guard they will retreat back from both ICM and HE, useful if you are trying to manage a large battle, However I to find that the AI's Idea of "Hull Down" is my Idea of near suicide.
I tried setting the guard positions further back, but they will still advance to thier own choice HD spot, I don't know what the code is telling them is the ideal position, I would imagine the Ideal would be to stop the tank as soon as the gun can see the target area

[Ssnake]

As long as the computer is not aware of enemy presence, it determines its "hull down" position (which always is a relative term) to a spot 1500m in front of its current battle position. Once that enemy has been located, the unit will then shift its position accordingly. However, it may be too late by then, I agree.

We have considered several possible solutions to this aspect (although no final decision has been made yet), and once that we have completed our work on the environmental simulation, we will try to address this.

[Haferja]

Thank you for your immediate replies!!

The AI takes the hull down position 1500m from their current bp, if there is no enemy in sight.

Maybe it will be useful (eg for Steel Beast II; schnief....it won't run on my old machine...) to let the player choose to which position (relative) the tank has to take a hull down. Eg you have to mark a point on the map and the tank has to trie to find a hull down relative to that marker. It's similar in Combat Mission II, and it works very well.
But this doesen't mean to replace the old system (pressing e). This is a very very useful key in the heat of a battle. It will be only useful to add the described procedure with the marker to the existing system with the e-key.

Cheers,
Hafer

PS: i hope you'll understand my "english".. ;)

[jaselong]

SSnake, is there any plans or is there a way to have a cupola up position as a preset. This position I found to be very good in real scenarios (as a gunner its not very interesting). Nevermind a profile of a t72 a commanders periscope / head is lower than any afv. Also on this thread in my experiance there is a lot of tank commanders and crew that think hull down means the enemy can count the belly plate bolts. The AI simulates very well the different levels of command experience as well as the old human error issue through this and I would hate to see it improved other than to give the other AI idividual skill ratings that can be reviewed and deployed. Who wants to command a company of clones?

[Ssnake]

SSnake, is there any plans or is there a way to have a cupola up position as a preset.Set the platoon to "Hold fire" or "Fire, if..." instead (Guard tactics work as well)
As long as the condition to fire at will is not met, the platoon will try to stay in turret down defilade. :cool:

A lot is already in SB1, still waiting to be discovered, methinks... ;)

[Hackworth]

...Second: what you can do rather than set a BP.. just route them there.. or if you want to make sure that they are facing the BP you want.. set a defence, guard, etc.. mode.. once they get there and set up, go back into tactics, and change it to "none" and place them exactly where you want them...

DON"T DO THIS. When units have no orders at a checkpiont they will not react properly to artillery fire. The unit will sit there and get the crap beat out of it...

[Lone*star49]

...Second: what you can do rather than set a BP.. just route them there.. or if you want to make sure that they are facing the BP you want.. set a defence, guard, etc.. mode.. once they get there and set up, go back into tactics, and change it to "none" and place them exactly where you want them...

DON"T DO THIS. When units have no orders at a checkpiont they will not react properly to artillery fire. The unit will sit there and get the crap beat out of it...
...

Well no, I do this just to keep the units low and stay on the map, and when enemy is detected, get in units and fight for just over 2 min.. then move them.. or.. set the BP as defend or guard.. but I agree that it is risky to put tactics at none.. but many times, it pays off with single units.. IMO

LS ;)

[Winder]

Speaking of setting Tactics to none, I notice when you do this the CP turns light blue in colour and becomes inaccesible, why is that?

[Lone*star49]

Speaking of setting Tactics to none, I notice when you do this the CP turns light blue in colour and becomes inaccesible, why is that?
...

At first I thought you were refering to "someone" was turning blue, as many have a fear of using this tactic, and righfully so, if one gets caught.. However, I'am at a loss to what "CP" stands for.. ?

lol.. LS :casstet:

[Wargamer]

checkpoint

Have been wondering this myself.

[Lone*star49]

Speaking of setting Tactics to none, I notice when you do this the CP turns light blue in colour and becomes inaccesible, why is that?
...

Not quite sure what you mean.. as when I set a non tactic route.. and get a light blue chkpt.. I can at any time clk on it and change it to defend, guard.. extend the route, etc..

Is this what your talking about?

LS

[brazen]

me, my biggest issue is when a friendly tank gets it in its head that theres no bump in front of an enemy tank and shoots off all its ammo into a hillside, several times i have caught them doing it, once it was 4 of them doing it, by the time i got around to checking them, they had all wasted half their sabot's. when all that is required is to jump into the gunners seat of one of them and raise the gun a fraction... boom got it in one. i guess the lesson is if you are gonna put your tanks in a spot where you know they will eventually come in contact... keep a close eye on them... which can be hard if you are engaged somewhere else.

as for keeping your tanks hull down... i tend to keep them well out of site if i am going to leave them without tactics, and i jump around and check up on each one regularly. if a squad is engaged for more than a minute or 2 i will move them, because of the risk of artillery and the simple fact that if they are still engaged without result then the position doesn't offer the best field of fire.

i just don't trust my units to leave them alone for more than a few minutes...

[Hussar]

FWIW I've noticed the AI behaviour re hull down and have tried tore-position the tanks independently. Trouble is this detaches them from the platoon and any 'conditioned' orders for retreat the platoon may have. IF I get time I may try setting a retreat route from individual tanks to the main route out, not sure if it will be effective though.

Interesting re the Hold Fire command, never considered that.

[Winder]

A little further investigation has turned up a slightly different picture, if you set a new CP with or without tactics and then send a unit to it when the unit reaches it, it changes colour to light blue, while it is light blue it seems that you cannot access it to make further changes ), howevr if you back the unit away fro the checkpoint a little it returns to dark blue and it becomes accessible again, you can of course always access the unit to to set a new route.
This is what I get at any rate.