I know I should wait and find out but...

[stalintc]

Hi All,

Its me again bugging you all about Steel Beasts :biggrin:

There are a few questions that I wanted to ask you all about the sim, that are not neccessarily important, but they were just "I wonder if's" I wanted to pose.

1) I have read that the tank gun barrels movement around its axis, is not affected by trees. But the hull of the tank can be obstructed. What about rounds fired, missile or shot, are they stopped by hitting a tree trunk for example? or do they pass straight through as if the tree were not there?

2) I have also read that TC AI has trouble spotting to its flanks and rear, does this infact mean that the AI does not spot at all to its flanks\rear? or that it rarely happens?

3) Is the helicopter AI clever enough to hide behind LOS obstructions and conduct pop-up attacks and re-masking?

4) Can the Mi-24 carry and deploy troops from it internal passenger bay?

5) Apart from the enemy tank bursting into flame or brewing up, are there any other visible damage effects that tell YOU the tank commander that this particular vehicle is out of action? I notice in a few youtube vids I watched that some of you have posted you are hitting a tank and moving onto another target even though it is not on fire, even though you seem to obviously be sure that the tank is out of action, which I could not see from the video.

6) Do HE artillery bombardments leave some uneven shellhole like terrain behind it?

7) in low vis situations, you of course need the TIS to see further, is this take into account with enemy troops AI and AI control vehicles that dont have that system installed. eg they cant fire back because they cannot see you?

8) Can I blow a building to bits? *evil laugh*

9) Can infantry use buildings as cover from which to open fire?

10) Is it possible (albeit it bit rambo like and a bit of a stupid move ) to shoot down an incoming missile with machine gun fire?

Sorry if these sound like silly questions, but I just wanted to know, and some of the questions I have asked about little details does not mean im going to break down in dis-appointment if its not in there as I "just wondered" :)

Thanks for taking the time to read this, I look forward to reading the responses and further info if any of you have any.

I ordered on Sunday in the afternoon, does this make tomorrow day 4 or 5 of waiting for delivery? dont mind me im just a little excited :biggrin:

Cheers

Terry

[Jester_UK]

Blimey! Don't want much do you???? :p

OK seroiusly though....


1) Sabot will pass straight through trees (and buildings). HEAT will detonate if they hit something (depending on fusing and range)

2) Never seen that.

3) Don't think so. AI is strictly scripted (Which isn't as bad as it sounds as you'll see when you start to play around with the mission editor).

4)No. However you can easilly get around this by setting an infantry unit to spawn when the Hind reaches a certain waypoint. Then set the infantry unit's first waypoint fairly close and set the Hind's routing to only continue when the infantry unit reaches that waypoint. This will give you a pretty good simulation of the chopper dropping off troops.

5)Only other visual que I've seen is the gun barrel drops (points down)

6)No

7) Yes in low-vis situations a unit without TIS is pretty limited.

8 ) Not as yet.

9) Not yet. It's in the upcoming update AFAIK

10) Never tried it and seriously doubt it! (pop smoke, change direction, run for cover!)

[3Star]

Hi All,

[quote]1) I have read that the tank gun barrels movement around its axis, is not affected by trees. But the hull of the tank can be obstructed. What about rounds fired, missile or shot, are they stopped by hitting a tree trunk for example? or do they pass straight through as if the tree were not there?

If the round has a fuse, it will likely detonate on impact with the tree.

2) I have also read that TC AI has trouble spotting to its flanks and rear, does this infact mean that the AI does not spot at all to its flanks\rear? or that it rarely happens?

I don't think it's too bad. I get the impression I'm slewed off at an angle by the TC frequently enough.

3) Is the helicopter AI clever enough to hide behind LOS obstructions and conduct pop-up attacks and re-masking?


If the mission designer, or person giving the orders, is clever enough to put it into the Hind's instructions.

4) Can the Mi-24 carry and deploy troops from it internal passenger bay?

No, but scenario designers can create the impression.

5) Apart from the enemy tank bursting into flame or brewing up, are there any other visible damage effects that tell YOU the tank commander that this particular vehicle is out of action?

Sometimes you'll have barrel droop. Similarly if the turret's stopped moving, it can be a giveaway, but you have to look carefully.

6) Do HE artillery bombardments leave some uneven shellhole like terrain behind it?


No.

7) in low vis situations, you of course need the TIS to see further, is this take into account with enemy troops AI and AI control vehicles that dont have that system installed. eg they cant fire back because they cannot see you?

Yes.

8) Can I blow a building to bits? *evil laugh*

Yes, but the model isn't perfect yet. Actually, it's pretty basic.

9) Can infantry use buildings as cover from which to open fire?

Yes, when the next patch is released. It's a bugger trying to spot them, your only clue is the tracer/muzzle flash.

10) Is it possible (albeit it bit rambo like and a bit of a stupid move ) to shoot down an incoming missile with machine gun fire?

Never tried. I wouldn't recommend relying on it as a survival technique.

Sorry if these sound like silly questions

What, number 10?

NTM

[stalintc]

Thanks guys for your answers to my questions :)

On question 2 I need to dig up where I read that tank AI rarely if at all spot to the sides and rear. But of course, you have both given me definitive answers that this is not the case which is good enough for me, just want to show that I did research certain things before asking, and whatever I read was not clear enough for me to say *it does* or *it doesnt*

The instructing of a hind to do terrain masking and dropping troops by clever illusion makes perfect sense to me, hehe that kind of reminds me of putting together an Operation Flashpoint scenario!! getting the helos to land and drop troops was the hardest bit for me to script if I remember rightly! Thanks for clearing thatone up anyhow. Perhaps in the future we will see blackhawks or chinooks inserting airborne infantry

The barrel dropping when a tank is killed is a nice little touch, I like the sound of that, it makes perfect sense to me. I must admit I didnt notice it in the vids, reason being the quality of image in the vids were a bit poor quality. (Not the movie makers doing im sure )

Pleased to hear about the TIS and AI units not having it being affected accordingly, in some sims\games I have played this is not the case and AI seems to have an all seeing eye. Which is certainly a feature that makes me happy!! I would like the think I am on par, or have an advantage over the AI in the appropriate circumstances such as low vis.

Nice to hear that infantry will be able to hide in buildings, and I can see 100% why it would be a pain to try and spot them in the buildings. Perhaps a workaround would be for an infantry shaped texture to appear in windows of a building when they are present, as some kind of indicator. But I can understand that infantry may want to lay low as possible and out of sight when a tank is approaching. making urban area even more dangerous than what they are already.

The only problem I forsee with the infantry being able to occupy a building is will the AI be as limited as the player by the fact that they are hiding in a building. I dont know what kind of issue that is for a dev team or whether they have even thought of it. But I did just want to point it out :)

On the point of number 10 3Star I only wanted to ask, because I was curious to find out whether munitions are affected in any way by other munitions in their path, I actually thought number 10 was quite decent one to pose, especially considering either of you dont know yourselves ;) hehehe. However I can see why it would be ridiculous to even try, but its something I will experiment with (If I can).

Thanks again, I appreciate all of the input you guys have given me thus far, I think my hunger for info has been satisfied for today, hopefully my copy will arrive tomorrow and I can find some things out for myself, insted of asking such things :biggrin:

Cheers

[Stewy]

I was doing target gunnery when SB arrived earlier this week and I blew the turret off a tank by plugging it a couple of times...

You can actually see it fly off and land on the ground next to the hull ;)

[stalintc]

I was doing target gunnery when SB arrived earlier this week and I blew the turret off a tank by plugging it a couple of times...

You can actually see it fly off and land on the ground next to the hull ;)

ahahahaha! I love that part in shooting tanks, seeing them brew up and blow the turret, the fun part after that is seeing where the turret lands!

I like the sound of that, what about APC's with turrets? can they brew up and *blow their top* so to speak?

Hope your enjoying SB Stewy!

SIDE NOTE: I noticed in a few vids rounds rebounding off the ground into the air, and also one particular video where a shot actually went underneath an APC's hull while it was on a hill, he even replayed it in slow motion, I think it was one of Jaguar9's vids.

[flyboy]

Yep the APC turrets go bye bye if they brew up.Best thing is to hit an APC dead centre with sabot in TIS "and" watch the round ricochette off the ground out the otherside and keep on going.

[Ssnake]

The likelihood of IFVs popping turrets is considerably lower than that of tanks - at least in Steel Beasts' damage calculations, I should say - because aside from missiles stored on board most IFVs don't have large quantities of explosives on board without significant encasing; the total amount of propellant of several hundred rounds of belted medium-caliber rounds may contain enough energy to make a turret go ballistic, but they would not go off simultaneously but rather be like those firecracker carpets with a series of smaller explosions. Enough to destroy the vehicle thoroughly, but not enough to lift the turret. Unless the missile stowage is being hit; the M3 has a higher chance of this happening.

[stalintc]

Thanks for that info gents, its nice to hear about the those little details which have been taken into account. I can see why a PC would not be as likely to brew up, that make perfect sense to me, however its nice that it can happen, even under rare circumstances.

It's now Saturday and still no SB, no post on Sundays, so hopefully Monday will yield goodies!!! if not I think im going to start foaming at the mouth and eat the postman. :gen004:

[TopKick]

I've seen M113 Acav PCs blown to Smithereens by simple RPG hits. Usually we had them overloaded with thousands of rounds of MG ammo, cases of C4, and 12-20 claymore antipersonnel mines. When that stuff blows up, the PC and troops inside sorta vaporize.

[Stewy]

Thanks for that info gents, its nice to hear about the those little details which have been taken into account. I can see why a PC would not be as likely to brew up, that make perfect sense to me, however its nice that it can happen, even under rare circumstances.

It's now Saturday and still no SB, no post on Sundays, so hopefully Monday will yield goodies!!! if not I think im going to start foaming at the mouth and eat the postman. :gen004:

Good luck mate - the waiting is the worst! I tried to put it out of my mind, and hey presto, it arrived :)

[stalintc]

Thanks Stewy mate! :biggrin:

By the way it has just this moment hit my doorstep! time to install and train ;)

[60bravo]

By the way it has just this moment hit my doorstep! time to install and train ;)

Enjoy it!

[stalintc]

I am enjoying it, the tutorials are very good, I just done them all for the Leo2A4 twice.

Took the Leo1 on the gunnery range and I can consistantly pull 90% :D

What an excellent sim!

[BlackDeath]

i should start the Leo tutorial as well...

[stalintc]

better now than never hehe ;)

Just finished a bout in the instant action section, two pics below, one of carnage the other of the results!

Cheers

[BlackDeath]

lol i played instanct action a while ago with the M1 in SB1 (seems to be an other world) I killed 72 tanks & APCs and i had to quit 'cause nobody came anymore. I was never spotted (they didnt get closer than 2000m)
Sorry, Ive not the screenshot anymore. You'll have to trust my word.

[stalintc]

Wow that road must have been totally littered with chewed up armor! well done on that score, jeez thats good going! :biggrin:

[stalintc]

Well I have to say, today with Steel Beasts has been excellent, im very impressed with this simulation, its very immersive to say the least. Controls are nice an easy to pick up thankfully, leaving the harder part (tactics etc) to have full concentration!

I have only just managed to complete my first full mission, I think it was called Frozen Hell where you are directed to take a small town and then flank around the main battle area to hit a second rear objective. You are also provided with a small compliment of BMP's! 4 losses to 37 enemy vehicles knocked out. I lost 3 BMP's a 1 Leo2A4

There was a part of that mission that really gave me a shock, was when 7 or so T-72's came dashing from a treeline just as my leos took position after a forest edge. They came roaring out with unbelievable speed, thankfully they were all turned to burning wrecks with some quick and decisive shooting from the 2 platoons of leo's. But not without removing one of my leo's from service! great mission thanks to the designer!

Everything runs smoothly apart from one small thing... the larger tree forests, they tend to kill off my framerate quite a bit. Any advice? my detail sliders are on the defaults and im using an X800XT PE with the latest Omega drivers.

Well done to e-sims to putting together such a fabulous simulation of armoured combat, really worth the money IMHO!

[Ssnake]

With the frame rate counter active (Shift+F12 currently, will change to Alt+F12 soon) and the detail sliders activated in-game (Alt+D) you can adjust the sliders until you're happy with the frame rate again. Adjusting the "breadcrumb" slider (at the bottom) for the display of grass and pebbles offers the biggest potential for frame rate improvement. Also a moderate reduction of the upper two sliders may yield in a noticeable increase.

However, looking into a deep forest with view magnification activated will always be taxing simply because all trees in the line of sight, no matter how little can be seen of them - must be rendered in 3D which massively increases the polygon count. Unfortunately there is no way around it. Al tried many tricks, all failed.

[stalintc]

Thanks for the input Ssnake, I will do some more messing around to get the best possible frame output. Like I say other than looking at a forest everything runs quite smoothly reaching 60 fps in places.

Its much like the situation in Falcon 4.0 when you are parked at an airfield spooling up the jet, and other aircraft start filling up the ramp, takeoffs, landings etc, but thats the only time it bogs down, so I can fully understand what you mean because of the polygons.

On the point of those sliders, it reduces the view distance for those particular items is that correct? if so does that mean the AI can hit me without me ever seeing them because they are not drawn yet?

Thanks for confiming that for me anyhow mate :)

But its not a huge issue, just little niggle, but I can quite easily live with that to be honest with you, the rest of the simulation is just... well fabulous!

[Ssnake]

The level of detail threshold distances do not influence the rendering distances for vehicles and trees to the point of tactical significance. If you're looking through binoculars or the gunner's primary sight you'll always see everything at the highest LOD. And even with all sliders at minimum you'd probably still see tanks rendered out to a distance where they shrink to sub-pixel size.

[stalintc]

The level of detail threshold distances do not influence the rendering distances for vehicles and trees to the point of tactical significance. If you're looking through binoculars or the gunner's primary sight you'll always see everything at the highest LOD. And even with all sliders at minimum you'd probably still see tanks rendered out to a distance where they shrink to sub-pixel size.

You are making lots of sense, thanks man! :)