Where does "Coy" come from for a Company?

[charlie_zero_five]

I see "A Coy" and "Infantry Coy" all over the place and am confused, so I ask the ultimate question: why? Being the American I am, why not just CO?

[Kingtiger]

I see "A Coy" and "Infantry Coy" all over the place and am confused, so I ask the ultimate question: why? Being the American I am, why not just CO?

To not mix Company with Commanding Officer? (COmpanY - Command Officer? )

/KT

[charlie_zero_five]

Ahh, thank you COmpanY got it thanks.

CO can also mean Company or Commanding Officer, depending on the context, such as A CO, where's the CO respectivley btw ;)

[Kingtiger]

Ahh, thank you COmpanY got it thanks.

CO can also mean Company or Commanding Officer, depending on the context, such as A CO, where's the CO respectivley btw ;)

Ok now im out on thin ice. but wouldnt A CO mean just the CO of A Coy? And A Coy would mean A Company? just a theory

[chappy]

'A' company commander is usually an OC (officer commanding)
'THE' commanding officer is 'THE CO'
A company is Coy but if ur anyone other than america an armoured unit of company strength is actually a squadron :)

[Kingtiger]

'A' company commander is usually an OC (officer commanding)
'THE' commanding officer is 'THE CO'
A company is Coy but if ur anyone other than america an armoured unit of company strength is actually a squadron :)

Or the other way around... ;)

In sweden Company is Company, Not squadron. (I think we have some exeption to confirm the rule thoe, in the airborne or something)

[Froggy]

in France, we have a company and 2 squadrons in the same regiment.
The 1st compagny of 501 RCC (the free french tank company) come from the independent company of tanks who fought in Norway while the other squadron came from a regiment.
regimental armoured unit of company strenght were called Squadron.
independent armoured unit of company strenght were called Company.

[chappy]

thats even more convoluted than the british (australian) system !

anyway back to the original question, most militaries have an obsession with TLAs and ETLA's (who can guess what they are ;) )

[JG11Bear]

Three letter acronim.

Extended three letter acronim.

What about the American obsession with making a ETLA sound scary or cool

H.A.W.K. ( re the S.A.M. ) Homing all the way killer... ;)

S.E.A.L.

A.M.R.A.A.M.

I'm sure you guys can think of some more.

B.E.A.R. ;)

[HeinzBaby]

I would assume other Commonwealth countries as in New Zealand, Engineer Companies still retain their title as Engineer Squadrons. goes back to when Engineers were mounted Units on Horse.
(Being an old Sapper in the RNZE myself a long time ago..)

[charlie_zero_five]

Yeah dunno the obsession.. I think theres a team of retired COL's at BLDG 15 in Ft Benning whose only job is to think these things up. Gotta have give old COLs something to do.

Then of course for field rations they dont have one for the cookie, with "pan coated chocolate disks" (M&Ms).

US has Regiments.. only it's for historical purposes. Most IN and CAV Regiments are from US Ancient History (you know, >75 years ago heh). You'll have a IN Battalion, but it will be called by it's Regiment's name (2-22 IN BN).

Cavalry Brigades call their Battalions "Squadrons" and things of Company strength - "Troops" because hey, we're Americans.

[Volcano]

"Co" is the US abbreviation of Company, just like "Bn" for Battalion, but three letter "Plt" is platoon and "Rgt" is Regiment. :o Of course, "Co" not to be confused with "CO", for commanding officier.

I research OOB's for another job at HPS and from what I have learned (I was curious about this as well) is that "Coy" is the British abbreviation of company and, as such, is also used by commonwealth forces I imagine. This was the case during World War I and World War II, and I imagine it is still true.

[Kingtiger]

"Co" is the US abbreviation of Company, just like "Bn" for Battalion, but three letter "Plt" is platoon and "Rgt" is Regiment. :o Of course, "Co" not to be confused with "CO", for commanding officier.

I research OOB's for another job at HPS and from what I have learned (I was curious about this as well) is that "Coy" is the British abbreviation of company and, as such, is also used by commonwealth forces I imagine. This was the case during World War I and World War II, and I imagine it is still true.

How do you solve that issue if a writer is using CAPS LOCK? :P

CO IS CO OVER CO... XD

[Hedgehog]

Yeah dunno the obsession.. I think theres a team of retired COL's at BLDG 15 in Ft Benning whose only job is to think these things up. Gotta have give old COLs something to do.

Then of course for field rations they dont have one for the cookie, with "pan coated chocolate disks" (M&Ms).

US has Regiments.. only it's for historical purposes. Most IN and CAV Regiments are from US Ancient History (you know, >75 years ago heh). You'll have a IN Battalion, but it will be called by it's Regiment's name (2-22 IN BN).

Cavalry Brigades call their Battalions "Squadrons" and things of Company strength - "Troops" because hey, we're Americans.

That cos your backwards, haha, sorry couldn't resist.
In England its done the proper way.

Platoon = Troop.
Coy = Squadron.

We have a guy boozed up 24/7 inventing our acronyms, lives somewhere in the carribia...west indies where he can't do any damage
Prob the same idiot who thought windows for warships was a good idea.


KT: you shouldn't really be out in public unsupervised if you can't work a Caps lock key.

[Kingtiger]

KT: you shouldn't really be out in public unsupervised if you can't work a Caps lock key.

Tell that to my boss, both write with caps lock on only :P

[HotTom]

I dunno about old retired COLs but from this old retired LTC:

Coy definitely is not American. It doesn't appear in any US list of acronyms I have and I've never seen it used.

CO can be commanding officer or a company.

http://www.dia.mil/publicaffairs/Foia/abbrev_acron.pdf#search=%22military%20abbreviation s%20acronyms%22

In US radio procedure and in GI jargon, of course, a commander is simply a "six." If you come up on my net and identify yourself as "Dragon Wagon Six," I know immediately you are the commander of whatever unit "Dragon Wagon" is.

But coy does appear on lists of British acronyms and abbreviations:

http://www.armedforces.co.uk/abbreviationsah.htm

HT

[Hedgehog]

What a pair of Numbnuts.

Though one of my school teachers used the caps like a shift key and i'm like
"what the hell? just use the shift key."

Nice piece of history with sod all meaning in real life.

Well, that was pointless.

[HotTom]

So, uh, where does the term "sod" come from? :)

To us Yanks it means grass (the kind on your lawn, not the kind you smoke).

HT

[chappy]

I dunno about old retired COLs but from this old retired LTC:

Coy definitely is not American. It doesn't appear in any US list of acronyms I have and I've never seen it used.

CO can be commanding officer or a company.

http://www.dia.mil/publicaffairs/Foi...%20acronyms%22

In US radio procedure and in GI jargon, of course, a commander is simply a "six." If you come up on my net and identify yourself as "Dragon Wagon Six," I know immediately you are the commander of whatever unit "Dragon Wagon" is.

But coy does appear on lists of British acronyms and abbreviations:

http://www.armedforces.co.uk/abbreviationsah.htm

HT

U guys dont use OC? (officer commanding) for company?
The 'six' callsign is something i've never seen, must be a unique US form of ratel. But that doesnt really surprise me seeing as the callsign system for units is clearly completely different between the US and Commonwealth. (something i really hope Esim fix up soon!)

We have nicknames for our prominent callsigns (i wont say them cause i cant remember if they are opsec or not)

the UK and commonwealth still have regiments within their army system however they are largely a name or an administrative function at most WRT the infantry. (Australia has the one regular regiment THE royal australian regiment with 6 Bn's) The regiment is an important part of the esprit de corps of the military complete with its history and sense of belonging but its the Bns that provide the operational capability. In terms of the UK im pretty sure its safe to say that this design of Bns within a regt structure has been around since wellington's time where 1 Bn from a regt (with up to 4 Bns within that regt) could be attached to any Bde.
Our armoured units are still regiments however.

[ShotMagnet]

So, uh, where does the term "sod" come from?
British slang, short for 'sodomite'. Used to mean 'A pitiable or contemptible person'.

Found here http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/



Shot

[stalintc]

British slang, short for 'sodomite'. Used to mean 'A pitiable or contemptible person'.

Found here http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/



Shot

Such a person can also be reffered to as a "bugger" or a "git" other more offensive words for a person\object which cannot be posted on this forum can also apply to this genre.

Well done on the definition Shot, as an Englishman im impressed. :biggrin:

[RecceDG]

Canadian Armour

Sabre:

The smallest element is a 4-tank Troop, commanded by a Lt, the Troop Leader.

The next larger element is the 4-Troop Squadron, commanded by a Major, the Squadron OC.

Next up is the 4 Squadron Regiment, commanded by a LCol/Col, the Regimental CO.

Recce:

Smallest element is a 2-car Patrol, commanded by a MCpl/Sgt, the Patrol Commander

Next up is the 8 (for now, it has varied from 5-17) car Troop, commanded by the Troop Leader

and the rest is as per Sabre.

Callsigns:

A squadron gets a number prefix A=1, B=2, etc.

The Troop Leader gets a number suffix that matches his troop number - so 1 Tp gets a 1, 2 Tp gets a 2, etc.

All the other members of his troop get letters in order of seniority, so you get

11 = Troop Leader, 1 Troop, A Squadron
32A = Troop WO, 2 Troop, C Squadron
etc.

Headquarters units get a "9" as the suffix, with the OC getting the bare "9" and SHQ subunits getting letter suffixes. So:

49 = D Sqn OC
29C = B Sqn Sergeant Major
etc.

Command Posts use the Squadron prefix on the air, and a suffix when moving, so the D Sqn CPs are 4A and 4B, but whichever is operating at the time would report as just 4.

The CO gets a straight 9 and RHQ get letter suffixes, so
9 - CO
9A - DCO
etc.

It's actually a very elegant and easy to understand system.

DG

[Froggy]

I think we have the worst system in France: no definite system.
in the OPT (particular order for transmission) you receive a 4 letter or digit callsign:ie 4RTZ
So you can't know who is your interlocutor if you don't have the OPT.
And there is 3 quadrigram for each element (vehicule): 1st frequence, 2nd frequence, numeric frequence.
A nightmare.

So when we are training, we use numeric callsign:
1 is the Co (CDU)
2 is the Xo (OA)
...
10 is 1st platoon tank leader
11 is 1st platoon, 1st wingman
...
22 is second platoon, platoon sergent
23 is second platoon, 2nd wingman
...

[3Star]

Doesn't seem too obscure. Pretty similar to the US tanks.

11 equals 1st Platoon leader
12 his wingman
13 Third Tank
14 Platoon Sergeant

In everything else, '6' is the command element, '5' is the 2IC, and '7' is the senior NCO. (1SG, Sergeant Major, whatever). I think the British equivalent to '6' is 'Sunray'

Ergo, Household 6 = Domestic Sunray.

Additional identifiers are possible. 11 Actual is the tank commander. 11G is his gunner, 11 D is the driver, and 11L is the loader. There are a ton more for the TOC. Battalion/Bde/Div staff are by division number: The S-1 is "1", the S-2 is "2", et al.

Incidently, I will usually use "Coy" in m emails to battalion, nobody's called me on it yet. I presume they know what I'm waffling about.

NTM

[stalintc]

This is a really intersting thread! nice to have some insight into such things, which some of us Civvies dont generally have much grasp on! :)

[HotTom]

And 27 is always the Provost Marshal :)

Is 9 ("niner") still used? My driver/radioman always was Two Seven Niner. The CO's driver/radioman always was Six Niner. Maybe that's a Military Police thing. If you had a two-man patrol the call sign belongs to the senior man (oops, soldier), the driver is "Niner."

It would be nice to think all this chatter about call signs might indicate someone might actually be considering using them in mulitiplayer. Most of the time, I have no idea who is talking. Even using their own personal call sign would be a step up.

Just a thought (I know, it's in a strange place)...

:MP:

HT

[stalintc]

And 27 is always the Provost Marshal :)

It would be nice to think all this chatter about call signs might indicate someone might actually be considering using them in mulitiplayer. Most of the time, I have no idea who is talking. Even using their own personal call sign would be a step up.

:MP:

HT

A.R.R.C are sticklers for using callsigns :ysir2:

[HotTom]

Good on them! The TGIF bunch sure isn't. Somehow, you're supposed to recognize their voices, I guess.

HT

[MAJ_Fubar]

Is 9 ("niner") till used? My driver/radioman always was Two Seven Niner). The CO's driver/radioman always was Six Niner. Maybe that's a Military Police thing.

HT

"Niner" is still used by most of the Army, but some units do things their own way. In most units 66 is the CO and 65 is the XO but in the 1CD it's 60 and 50 respectively, "9" becomes the 1SG, "8" maintenace, and "7" medics.

[3Star]

In most units ... 65 is the XO

I'm "Black 5" on the company net, and "Dragon 5" on Battalion and Brigade. I've found that sort of division to be more common than anything else so far, but yes, it can be a unit-SOI specific issue.

NTM

[charlie_zero_five]

Yes, this is a great thread, pleazse chime in if there's something else you think you can add.

In my old mech days, it ran like this:

1PLT CO C: C10
2PLTSGT CO B: B24

Since we're grunts for the radio operator, we just used: "R" or C10R

CO C XO was: C05 (hence my forum name when I joined)
CO D CO was: D6

BN and BDE net we wrote our mascots in the SOI, our BN CO was "Gator 6" the log guy is -4 etc.

Cavalry bubbas seem to have predator names (Coyote, panther) and/or old American Indian tribe or Indian names (Apache, Comanche, Navajo, Cherokee, Snow Bird, Rainbow, Spirit etc)



At CORPS level and above... we just used email and satillite phones :D

[Hedgehog]

Why can't we just use colors? nice and simple.

"Red team and Blue team have combined to form Purple"

My Brother on a CB radio exercise with the (boy) scouts.
Apparently one of the radios gave out. Typical eh?

:)

[3Star]

We do, on the company net. Instead of saying "11", we'll say "Red 1". Hence I'm in the Black element.

NTM

[chappy]

recce looks like the canuck sys and aus system are essentially the same for callsigns (think we use niner too within the armoured regt context, (9F is the RSM )
Our cav troops are currently 6 cars, 2 patrols of 3 and our armoured troops are currently 3 MBTs with 4 troops of 3 in a squadron

[RecceDG]

Yeah, it looks like the Aussie system and the Canadian system are pretty compatible. I'd bet that there are minor differences, but for the most part we're on the same page.

The two, three car patrols for a Recce Tp is interesting though... that's not a whole lot of depth (or frontage) you can cover, and a three-car patrol has got to be a lot tougher to hide.

"Sunray" is a nickname for a commander. Nicknames are useful when you don't necessarily know the ORBAT/callsigns for the organization you are talking to (or they don't know yours) and you want to refer to a specific person.

For example:

"42 this is 4, over" (the D Sqn CP wants to talk to the 2 Tp Leader)

"4 this is Zulu 42, send, over" (He isn't on the air, but his crew is and they answered)

"4 roger, fetch Sunray, over" (The CP acknowledges that 42's crew has answered, but he wants to talk to 42, not leave a message)

"Zulu 42 wait, over" (OK, I'll go get him)

"4 this is 42, send, over"

There's no OpSec here - these nicknames have been around since at least WW2

DG

[chappy]

hehe same nicknames too