Rotareneg Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 The AI gunner in SB suffers from extreme target fixation, staring directly at infantry without firing and without ever scanning, even when being fired upon by a tank which is just to the side of the infantry: eo4lxT8a_b4 target_fixation.zip 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjay Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 The AI gunner in SB suffers from extreme target fixation, staring directly at infantry without firing and without ever scanning, even when being fired upon by a tank which is just to the side of the infantry:eo4lxT8a_b4 This can be 'exploited' to some extent when engaging an eny AI tank. Attract its attention with one tank and then move to its partial flank with another. Although the second tank is the greater threat, it's unlikely the eny will switch its attention from the first while it remains alive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted October 21, 2014 Moderators Share Posted October 21, 2014 Well, to some extent this is the joys of the "artificial" part of "AI". Of course it can be exploited, the AI in SB has been exploited for 15 years by people. If you can do all of that exploiting while under fire from other tanks and infantry, then kudos to you. Other than that, we are aware of AI limitations and it really doesn't do much good to dig into this area. We try to make them smart, but not too smart, but also dumb, yet not too dumb. This is a very tricky balancing act. All I can say is that there will always be AI limitations and we do try to improve it where possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted October 21, 2014 Moderators Share Posted October 21, 2014 Question: The enemy tank in the video is impotent. I assume the troops or not? So, why should the AI think the impotent tank is a greater threat? Try it without making the enemy tank impotent (make it a good tank too). Also, make sure the infantry do not have RPG-29s, as these are exceptionally deadly. You will likely have to put in more Blue tanks in case they get killed on the first shots. I could be wrong here, but you cannot make an AI observation fully off of that situation. It could be that the AI still gets distracted by troops when faced with non-impotent tanks, but it is worth a check to try a non-impotent tank instead. Besides that, it likely comes down to the same old known behavior of the AI getting distracted with troops. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotareneg Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 The tank wasn't impotent, but it was firing BM-9 ammo. Here's a second version of the scenario, with 4 M1A1(HA) tanks vs Leo 2A5's with default ammo and an FO team with no AT weapons at all. You can use trigger 2 and three 3 have the other tanks pull up. The scenario plays out a bit randomly as the tanks don't always scan in the same directions, but in the recorded run at least one M1 noticed the first Leo 2A5 while the others remained fixed on the troops. This exposed another issue: the tanks that were fixated on the troops began firing the 50 cal on the troops even though they were out of sight due to the low visibility. As soon as the Leo was destroyed they ceased firing on the troops. After the other tanks noticed the troops I used the triggers to pull up the other Leos and destroyed the M1s without any resistance. TlIJUjttZas target_fixation2.zip 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted October 22, 2014 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2014 OK thanks for checking. This looks like the same old issue with the TC being distracted by troops (which is known). It is a little bit tricky as it really comes down to range and which target is "presented" / seen first. Perhaps they could be made to ignore the troops after a certain range though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 OK thanks for checking. This looks like the same old issue with the TC being distracted by troops (which is known). It is a little bit tricky as it really comes down to range and which target is "presented" / seen first. Perhaps they could be made to ignore the troops after a certain range though.Could be tricky if troops are an ATGM team. Or can AI differentiate that..like: ignore till recognizing ATGM or FO equipment (FO would be a high value tgt too...hard to spot tough) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted October 22, 2014 Members Share Posted October 22, 2014 All infantry is treated by the computer control logic as having an anti tank capability. And that, IMO, is a sensible approach since it is quite likely, and in reality you wouldn't know exactly the armament of fleeting infantry targets which, for most of the time, you don't get to see properly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjay Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Well, to some extent this is the joys of the "artificial" part of "AI". Of course it can be exploited, the AI in SB has been exploited for 15 years by people. If you can do all of that exploiting while under fire from other tanks and infantry, then kudos to you. When I said 'exploit' I wasn't thinking of 'cheating exploits' such as finding a way to drive vehicles underwater. I meant studying the wrinkles of A.I behaviour and adapting your tactics to take account if its strengths and weaknesses - as you would with real humans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted October 22, 2014 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2014 When I said 'exploit' I wasn't thinking of 'cheating exploits' such as finding a way to drive vehicles underwater. I meant studying the wrinkles of A.I behaviour and adapting your tactics to take account if its strengths and weaknesses - as you would with real humans. Well, I am not really interested in hair splitting over the exact definition of words, but the fact is that in gaming an exploit is a cheat. It cannot be explained otherwise. It is essentially "gaming the game" more or less, and anyone that intentionally does something to exploit AI behavior to achieve an unrealistic advantage is cheating. Just for the sake of not being looked at as a turd by other players and members of the community, all exploiting should be avoided. The particular issue being discussed in this thread has existed for quite some time and has always been minimized by the fact that in most cases the user will intervene directly and take over the gunner or TC to shoot the enemy vehicle. But yes, it can be particularly annoying to those who mostly hang out in the F8 view expecting the AI to make all the right decisions. But it doesn't matter, we are aware of this issue, and it is something that we do need to improve. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotareneg Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 But yes, it can be particularly annoying to those who mostly hang out in the F8 view expecting the AI to make all the right decisions.Or those who play scenarios with more than one platoon of tanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjay Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 the fact is that in gaming an exploit is a cheat. IThen I used the wrong word. Apologies. I would be less inclined to 'take advantage' of deficiencies in the AI when it is acting on the enemy's behalf it did a better job when it's on my side. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjay Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 All infantry is treated by the computer control logic as having an anti tank capability. And that, IMO, is a sensible approach since it is quite likely, and in reality you wouldn't know exactly the armament of fleeting infantry targets which, for most of the time, you don't get to see properly. Makes perfect sense to me. And VERY useful to know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse 31 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I'd love to have the ability to pull the trigger myself, much like the Machine Gunner. Problem Solved! :clin: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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