Gibsonm Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 16 minutes ago, 12Alfa said: Typed Amour Basics in the SB Wiki and got nothing. Its not in the Wiki. As Ssnake said its in the documentation folder of every installation (i.e. on your computer). Its a PDF. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12Alfa Posted March 28, 2016 Author Share Posted March 28, 2016 1 minute ago, Gibsonm said: Its not in the Wiki. As Ssnake said its in the documentation folder of every installation (i.e. on your computer). Its a PDF. I knew dat 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted March 29, 2016 Members Share Posted March 29, 2016 8 hours ago, mpow66m said: ''Typed Amour Basics in the SB Wiki and got nothing.'' Its on the disc i believe. It gets installed with a ton of other documents as a part of the Steel Beasts "offline documentation", a.k.a. the "Documents" folder in your Steel Beasts program folder. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingtiger Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 13 hours ago, 12Alfa said: Typed Amour Basics in the SB Wiki and got nothing. Well, if you want basics in Amour I doubt Steelbeasts will do much for you. /KT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 16 hours ago, 12Alfa said: With so many experts here, LOL, I found it, around 600m for a heat. Also found: The official BGM-71D/E armour-piercing capability reaches 920 mm of steel behind ERA. Nevertheless, several foreign experts have challenged the aforementioned data. Previously, Major General of the US Armed Forces, P. Gorman published the article “U.S. Intelligence and Soviet Armour”, declassified in 2004. He pointed out, that the armour-piercing capabilities of the early TOW/ITOW missiles (BGM-71A/B and BGM-71C) were significantly overestimated. So, the real combat effectiveness of TOW 2/TOW 2A missiles may be less impressive, than declared by the developer. Typed Amour Basics in the SB Wiki and got nothing. it only has to penetrate about 400mm of cast steel. there are no mysteries here: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian90 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 T-90 obr.1992 which is exactly the tank that was hit by that TOW-2A, uses exactly the same turret and armor as T-72B. And this armor is not secret for a very long time either. It is a simple NERA type array. Hull front glacis is even simpler, just spaced steel array. This is a T-72B3 damaged during this idiotic TV show called "Tank Biathlon", front idlers were ripped off when vehicle hit a concrete barrier on full speed. Means that hull is a no go for repair and they need to scrap it... but hey, at least we know how armor array looks like. Here is also another photo from Chechnya. Nothing super fancy, and T-90 have exactly the same armor protection, because during it's development there was no requirement for increased armor protection over T-72B obr.1989 (T-72B with Kontakt-5 ERA). T-90A (welded turret variant) also most likely uses exactly the same armor protection. This is a graphic from UKBTM, design bureau belonging to UralVagonZavod corporation, we can see there turret armor model in Dyna LS program used to simulate armor/projectile interaction during penetration process. As we can see this array is strikingly similiar to T-72B and T-90 turret armor array. And we can also safely assume, hull front glacis have also same armor. Especially considering that during T-90A development there was also no requirement for increased armor protection, and welded turret was only developed due to necessity as production plant for cast turrets was closed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Damian90 said: T-90 obr.1992 which is exactly the tank that was hit by that TOW-2A, uses exactly the same turret and armor as T-72B. And this armor is not secret for a very long time either. It is a simple NERA type array. Hull front glacis is even simpler, just spaced steel array. This is a T-72B3 damaged during this idiotic TV show called "Tank Biathlon", front idlers were ripped off when vehicle hit a concrete barrier on full speed. Means that hull is a no go for repair and they need to scrap it... but hey, at least we know how armor array looks like. Here is also another photo from Chechnya. Nothing super fancy, and T-90 have exactly the same armor protection, because during it's development there was no requirement for increased armor protection over T-72B obr.1989 (T-72B with Kontakt-5 ERA). T-90A (welded turret variant) also most likely uses exactly the same armor protection. This is a graphic from UKBTM, design bureau belonging to UralVagonZavod corporation, we can see there turret armor model in Dyna LS program used to simulate armor/projectile interaction during penetration process. As we can see this array is strikingly similiar to T-72B and T-90 turret armor array. And we can also safely assume, hull front glacis have also same armor. Especially considering that during T-90A development there was also no requirement for increased armor protection, and welded turret was only developed due to necessity as production plant for cast turrets was closed. the only issue i have with claiming T-90A having the exact same array is T-72B and T-90 is T-90A protection would actually be inferior to T-90. so there's probably some improvement in composition. russians would have to be insanely stupid to "upgrade" a tank, by making it heavier, and reducing front protection. so protection is probably the same style, but different composition. could even be something as simple as increasing angle of the NERA elements. there's also a critical flaw in the armour arrangement, where at the exact 0 degree angle to the armour array, protection drastically drops, as you have a 50% chance of bypassing the NERA elements. Edited March 29, 2016 by dejawolf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian90 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Well, turret welded from rolled armor plates per Russian sources offers from 5 to 15 % more protection than cast armor. Besides this indeed angle of turret front armor is different. T-72B/T-90, T-80U, T-80UD. T-90A, T-84. So we can rather safely assume, angle of NERA arrays in T-90A changed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agiel Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) I'm curious as to how it was ascertained that what was fired was a TOW-2A and not some older version like the legacy TOW-2 or BGM-71A/B or ITOW. Was there anything from the footage that distinguished it as that? Had the people who filmed it had a close look at the missile at some point? Was the TOW-2A known to have been supplied to this group of rebels? Edited March 29, 2016 by Agiel 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted March 30, 2016 Members Share Posted March 30, 2016 The original video shows the type sticker on the missile. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 another T-90 takes a TOW hit. this time it's not so lucky: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12Alfa Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 See a bit of smoke, but thats it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted May 10, 2016 Members Share Posted May 10, 2016 Rarely a good sign. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 9 minutes ago, 12Alfa said: See a bit of smoke, but thats it. crew might all be dead. TC and drivers hatch is closed. overpressure from missile probably knocked them out, then Co2 from fire suppression and smoke slowly choked them to death while unconcious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12Alfa Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 speculation 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Just now, 12Alfa said: speculation turret is not moving in the footage. and if they were alive, TC and drivers hatch would definitely be open, as TC would be frantically trying to get the hell out and try to save driver/gunner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12Alfa Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) We don't even know IF there were a crew in the tank, so any TC trying to save a crew member is a bit of a reach.We see a tank and a hit, thats it.Not even a flying turret.Should wait for more details to come around, But hey, speculate if it make you happy Edited May 10, 2016 by 12Alfa 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Colossus Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) what do the rebels have to take aerial photography like that- first time i've seen what might be a rebel drone camera, but you see troops casually walking in the upper right hand corner of the film with respect to the tank as if the film was taken some time later after the hit (and they seem unaware or unconcerned with rebel aerial vehicles flying overhead). maybe they are splicing different film sources together, the tow gunner sitting down at the beginning doesn't necessarily establish continuity with the rest of the film, it may be the case, but it doesn't show with certainty. here is something that came up related to that clip- saudi tanks under attack by houthi rebels in yemen. Edited May 10, 2016 by Captain_Colossus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian90 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 10 hours ago, 12Alfa said: We don't even know IF there were a crew in the tank, so any TC trying to save a crew member is a bit of a reach.We see a tank and a hit, thats it.Not even a flying turret.Should wait for more details to come around, But hey, speculate if it make you happy And what are you? A supporter of Russia that you defend so much this coffin? The crew is most likely dead, and not in very nice way, heck ammo cook off would be probably much more pleasant than choking to death as dejawolf pointed out. There was no cook of because most likely Russians instructed Syrians to load ammunition only to autoloader where ammo is much more difficult to hit than in ammo racks in crew compartment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12Alfa Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 LAME comments, and speculation again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I think both sides are correct. While it cannot be labelled irrefutable fact, enough evidence can be inferred to make some conclusions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueSnake79 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 If I ban myself, will I continue to see this thread being updated? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejawolf Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 On 5/10/2016 at 4:08 PM, 12Alfa said: speculation this coming from a guy who believes 9/11 was an inside job.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 (edited) On 3/29/2016 at 3:53 PM, dejawolf said: it only has to penetrate about 400mm of cast steel. there are no mysteries here: Someone's been having fun with a gas axe..... Edited May 12, 2016 by Hedgehog 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 On 5/10/2016 at 2:43 PM, dejawolf said: another T-90 takes a TOW hit. this time it's not so lucky: Tis a dead link now 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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