Gibsonm Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 On 13/08/2016 at 7:57 PM, Volcano said: All the the mythical and magical mysteries of the gun sight are explained therein. Nothing wrong with steam gunnery. Makes you appreciate all this whizz bang laser, stab and TI stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, Gibsonm said: Nothing wrong with steam gunnery. Makes you appreciate all this whizz bang laser, stab and TI stuff. Agreed. For me anyway there's more tension using stem gunnery you have to make every shot count . which is why I am enjoying using the T-55 you can see the fall of shot and adjust. Trying to hit a target two clicks away while on the move just ant gonna happen in a T-55/62 you have to get close. For any newbies my advice is short stop fire move. And thanks for the wiki updates Volcano and Gibsonm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJ_Fubar Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 3 hours ago, Grenny said: hope to get the Marder text ready in the next weeks... Excellent, I was going to do that next, but I'll check it off the list. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iarmor Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 (edited) On 8/15/2016 at 7:58 PM, Volcano said: It is easy enough to change the ammo counts on the Shot Kal, but could you please provide a reference for the 72 total gun rounds? We try not to make substantial changes just based on a post in a forum. Then there is a question of how much of that was "ready" and how much of it was "stowed". HEAT and smoke can be allowed -- they won't be default ammo but the user could apply them if they want. I am wondering though, how did they aim with HEAT given that the ballistics didn't match anything in the gunsight? Perhaps they used the .30 Cal scale? Or maybe they used in close range only... it would make sense at least, because it would be almost guaranteed kill on a T-55 or T-62. Finding English reference is difficult, but eventually I found that the 72 rounds stowage is mentioned in Simon Dunstan's books "Centurion Universal Tank 1943-2003" and "Centurion vs. T-55: Yom Kippur War 1973". Of course posts in forums are of variable reliability. When it comes to Israeli-armor-related issues, I do recommend to ask in http://www.idf-modelling.com/forum/, since one of the moderators there serves as the curator of the Latrun armor museum's tank collection. It's hard to find any better source. Edited August 17, 2016 by Iarmor 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major duck Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 5 hours ago, Iarmor said: Finding English reference is difficult, but eventually I found that the 72 rounds stowage is mentioned in Simon Dunstan's books "Centurion Universal Tank 1943-2003" and "Centurion vs. T-55: Yom Kippur War 1973". Of course posts in forums are of variable reliability. When it comes to Israeli-armor-related issues, I do recommend to ask in http://www.idf-modelling.com/forum/, since one of the moderators there serves as the curator of the Latrun armor museum's tank collection. It's hard to find any better source. If you look in Janes armour and artillery 1982-83 then its mentioned that in the upgraded version it carries 72 rounds of 105mm ammo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJ_Fubar Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 M60A3 gunner's station is posted. Once more let me know if anything is amiss. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longknife Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) 18 hours ago, MAJ_Fubar said: M60A3 gunner's station is posted. Once more let me know if anything is amiss. Well done sir, very thorough. I appreciate your efforts! 1 minor thing I noticed as I read through it which I can't confirm as being 100% certain of. My memory may be foggy on the subject it being 30+ yrs since I had any practical experience with the M60 but your explanation of applying lead with the LRF is exactly as I remember it. Track, lase & shoot. Afterwords though you state lase, track & shoot. As i said minor but poignant. Edit: You actually addressed this with your techniques section. Edited August 19, 2016 by Longknife 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Retro Posted August 19, 2016 Members Share Posted August 19, 2016 BTW please nobody edit the VEC pages - we actually have something typed up already (back when we implemented it), it just needs to be moved over (and then touched up no doubt, but still better than starting from scratch) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major duck Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 On 15/8/2016 at 6:58 PM, Volcano said: It is easy enough to change the ammo counts on the Shot Kal, but could you please provide a reference for the 72 total gun rounds? We try not to make substantial changes just based on a post in a forum. Then there is a question of how much of that was "ready" and how much of it was "stowed". HEAT and smoke can be allowed -- they won't be default ammo but the user could apply them if they want. I am wondering though, how did they aim with HEAT given that the ballistics didn't match anything in the gunsight? Perhaps they used the .30 Cal scale? Or maybe they used in close range only... it would make sense at least, because it would be almost guaranteed kill on a T-55 or T-62. From Janes armour and artillery 1982-83 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted August 19, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted August 19, 2016 OK, now we just need to work out how much of those 72 rounds are "ready" and how much of it was "stored". We have our top minds working on that, but if anyone has information to share then by all means... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted August 19, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted August 19, 2016 22 hours ago, MAJ_Fubar said: M60A3 gunner's station is posted. Once more let me know if anything is amiss. Nice job!!! My to-do list: T-55 M113 (common) Mini-Samson RWS VEC M1A2 gunner (I noticed I never finished this from 3.0 release GAHH) ...let's see how much of that gets finished. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted August 19, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted August 19, 2016 Updated the infantry page... http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/index.php?title=Infantry_Units (mainly bottom of page) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJ_Fubar Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 By RG-31 I assume you mean the Samson Mini RWS as I ready created the vehicle page and set up dummy links for the Samson. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted August 19, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted August 19, 2016 14 minutes ago, MAJ_Fubar said: By RG-31 I assume you mean the Samson Mini RWS as I ready created the vehicle page and set up dummy links for the Samson. Correct, that is what I meant (Mini Samson). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJ_Fubar Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Roger that... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted August 23, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted August 23, 2016 Just FYI: The T-55 page is now available... http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/index.php?title=T-55A 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 21 minutes ago, Volcano said: Just FYI: The T-55 page is now available... http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/index.php?title=T-55A Excellent, thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikingo Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 5 hours ago, Volcano said: Just FYI: The T-55 page is now available... http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/index.php?title=T-55A Outstanding Volcano! Printer ready + next tank too jump in. Glad is another T- 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munckmb Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Thanks guys! Great info! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Im slowly getting there :-( Took the M2 page as a template. This is still WIP, when done can I send it to you (Major Fubar) as *.docx?? Marder 1A3_SB wiki.docx 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJ_Fubar Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 2 hours ago, Grenny said: Im slowly getting there :-( Took the M2 page as a template. This is still WIP, when done can I send it to you (Major Fubar) as *.docx?? Marder 1A3_SB wiki.docx No problem here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iarmor Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 On 8/20/2016 at 2:13 AM, Volcano said: OK, now we just need to work out how much of those 72 rounds are "ready" and how much of it was "stored". We have our top minds working on that, but if anyone has information to share then by all means... It took a while, but I found the answer: the Shot Cal had 13 "ready" rounds. It is mentioned in the book "On the Edge: the Story of the 188th Brigade in the Yom Kippur War" by Aviram Barkai. I don't think there is an English version of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisWerb Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) On 17/08/2016 at 11:08 AM, Marko said: Agreed. For me anyway there's more tension using stem gunnery you have to make every shot count . which is why I am enjoying using the T-55 you can see the fall of shot and adjust. Trying to hit a target two clicks away while on the move just ant gonna happen in a T-55/62 you have to get close. For any newbies my advice is short stop fire move. And thanks for the wiki updates Volcano and Gibsonm I know this will probably get me branded as a heretic, but the most basic "steam gunnery" can actually be more effective. No need to lase or track and, at shorter ranges, where APDS or FIN are still very flat in trajectory, it can be devastating. One scenario is where you know the enemy will appear in a limited area, such as a river crossing as in the Immediate Action scenario where they will pile up and there is seldom any need to apply any lead beyond perhaps aiming above the 2nd roadwheel. You just keep hitting the enemy as fast as they appear. Most recently I did a scenario where a CV9030FIN caught a Russian BMP-2 company crossing a lake on the excellent Finland map. When I lased and tracked, one or more of the vehicles had time to put a konkurs into me or I saw it coming in time and popped smoke, ending the engagement. If I used "steam gunnery" I hit them almost as fast as they appeared and wiped them out. Wiki and the tutorials available to download in SB are awesome. I really appreciate the work that went into them. Edited October 17, 2016 by ChrisWerb 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 50 minutes ago, ChrisWerb said: If I used "steam gunnery" I hit them almost as fast as they appeared and wiped them out. There's a reason why you have "Battle Sabot" engagement drills - just point and shoot at anything under 1,000m away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisWerb Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) 9 hours ago, Gibsonm said: There's a reason why you have "Battle Sabot" engagement drills - just point and shoot at anything under 1,000m away. What I also find really impressive in the sim are the drills/instructions for use of incrementally degraded FCS/turret systems. They're a lot of fun to practise. I'm getting my head around the subtle and not so subtle differences between the different CV90s now. Also beautifully implemented by the devs. Edited October 17, 2016 by ChrisWerb 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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