Welcome to Steelbeasts.com

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, receive reputation points as a reward for submitting content, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

lavictoireestlavie

Everything Leclerc

271 posts in this topic

I don't know what you are expecting? Its lighter than any other modern Western tank, its got an autoloader (so even less weight is going to be dedicated to armor), and you expect what? That it is going to be like a Leopard 2 or M1A2?

Its like a modern Leopard 1. It maneuvers well and has a focus on quick engagements. It lacks somewhat when it comes to armor.

 

It was designed in the mid 80s with the mission of curb stomping Soviet armor. I think it is probably rather effective at that goal.

Edited by TankHunter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards

19 hours ago, TankHunter said:

I don't know what you are expecting? Its lighter than any other modern Western tank, its got an autoloader (so even less weight is going to be dedicated to armor), and you expect what? That it is going to be like a Leopard 2 or M1A2?

Its like a modern Leopard 1. It maneuvers well and has a focus on quick engagements. It lacks somewhat when it comes to armor.

 

It was designed in the mid 80s with the mission of curb stomping Soviet armor. I think it is probably rather effective at that goal.

 

The Leclerc is not the lighest modern western tank, the Italian Ariete tank is with 54 tons. It was considered as a counterpart to its foreign analogs such as the Leopard 2A4 and M1A1.

 

Leopard 2A4 - Total Combat Weight:  55,15 tons - Turret Weight: 16 tons -  Hull Weight: 37,1 tons - Turret volume: ~ 6,0 m3

Leopard 2A5 - Total Combat Weight:  59,9 tons - Turret Weight: 21 tons -  Hull Weight: 38,9 tons

 

Leclerc S1 -  Total Combat Weight:  54,6 tons - Turret Weight: 18,5 tons -  Hull Weight: 36,1 tons

Leclerc S2 -  Total Combat Weight:  56,4 tons - Turret Weight: 19,4 tons -  Hull Weight: 37,0 tons - Turret volume: ~ 6,7 m3

Leclerc SXXI - Total Combat Weight:  57,3 tons - Turret Weight: 20,3 tons -  Hull Weight: 37,0 tons

 

The measurement for the auto loader are 2,40 x 1,40 x 0,5 m. It weighs about 0,5 tons empty and about 1 ton fully loaded.

 

Given this, the Leclerc S2 (T7) turret weighs roughly 2,84 tons/m Compare that to the Leopard 2A4 with 2,67 tons/m3

 

Also, concerning the mantlet thickness of the Leopard 2A4 and M1A1/M1A2 tanks  this might give some clues:

 

 

1-1-1-1-1M1A1.jpg

v4q5ur_m256_120mm.png

uUkCEv5.jpg

wiege_leo2a4_mantlet.jpg

Leopard-2-koncpecja.jpg

M1A2-Layout.png

M1_mantlet.jpg

2013-03-05t000630z_1_cbre92400ax00_rtroptp_3_usa-defense-ohio.jpg

Nowy_obraz_mapy_bitowej.png

1-1-1-1-1M1A1.jpg

v4q5ur_m256_120mm.png

uUkCEv5.jpg

wiege_leo2a4_mantlet.jpg

Leopard-2-koncpecja.jpg

M1A2-Layout.png

M1_mantlet.jpg

2013-03-05t000630z_1_cbre92400ax00_rtroptp_3_usa-defense-ohio.jpg

Nowy_obraz_mapy_bitowej.png

Edited by lavictoireestlavie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at this diagrams, schematics and models how can a Leopard 2A4's mantlet have a KE resistance of 612 mm ? The actual mantlet seems about to be 420 mm thick. With the 240 mm trunion block (titanium ? steel ?) that gives us a total thickness of 660 mm LOS thickness.  Do these 660 mm equal 612 mm of KE RHAe  ? 

 

The M1A1/M1A2 Abrams mantlet seems to be about 350 mm thick. Coupled with the 330 mm thickness of the trunion block the total thickness it comes to about 680 mm. Is the 680 mm LOS thickness equal to 597 mm KE RHAe?

leopard2a4losrysunekkom.jpg

2w2r8rn.jpg

1414264959-eb463d91fc0a4aa7a2c0be696b51e499.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not saying the armour/damage model mite not need to be re-examined but i scored two hits to the front and one to the side of the leclerc from a CR-2 at close range There was damage but the leclerc was still in the fight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also consider this is the T7 version, which is pretty old, I believe from before 2005?

 

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/modern/France/AMX-56_Leclerc.php

 

Leclerc T7

Standard sofwtare, upgraded data transmission system between the tank commander and HQ for an instantaneous vision of the state of all battle tanks and acquired targets, and better visor.
Leclerc T8

Completely upgraded electronics.
Leclerc T9

Integrates a Sagem IRIS gunner numeric thermal imaging sight instead of the ATHOS system, with better resolution. This was the nex upgrade standard for previous series, starting in 2005.
Leclerc EMAT S3 serie (2004-2010)

Production and upgrade package SXXI applied to all operations tanks or previous batches. Concerned 96 vehicles.
Leclerc T10

New armoured modules, upgraded tank commander sight assisted by a laser and the IRIS thermal camera. First showcased at Eurosatory 2010.
Leclerc T11

Integrates the new battle management system ICONE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, munckmb said:

Also consider this is the T7 version, which is pretty old, I believe from before 2005?

 

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/modern/France/AMX-56_Leclerc.php

 

Leclerc T7

Standard sofwtare, upgraded data transmission system between the tank commander and HQ for an instantaneous vision of the state of all battle tanks and acquired targets, and better visor.
Leclerc T8

Completely upgraded electronics.
Leclerc T9

Integrates a Sagem IRIS gunner numeric thermal imaging sight instead of the ATHOS system, with better resolution. This was the nex upgrade standard for previous series, starting in 2005.
Leclerc EMAT S3 serie (2004-2010)

Production and upgrade package SXXI applied to all operations tanks or previous batches. Concerned 96 vehicles.
Leclerc T10

New armoured modules, upgraded tank commander sight assisted by a laser and the IRIS thermal camera. First showcased at Eurosatory 2010.
Leclerc T11

Integrates the new battle management system ICONE.

 

i think T7 is from around 2000-2001

Edited by lavictoireestlavie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, lavictoireestlavie said:

The Leopard 2A4 survives for some reason the 600 mm DM33 KE round from about 400 m :

 

yes, because at 400m the penetration of the DM-33 in SB is about 590mm. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards

1 minute ago, dejawolf said:

 

yes, because at 400m the penetration of the DM-33 in SB is about 590mm. 

Ahh, but the Leclerc did not make it, although it should have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, lavictoireestlavie said:

Looking at this diagrams, schematics and models how can a Leopard 2A4's mantlet have a KE resistance of 612 mm ? The actual mantlet seems about to be 420 mm thick. With the 240 mm trunion block (titanium ? steel ?) that gives us a total thickness of 660 mm LOS thickness.  Do these 660 mm equal 612 mm of KE RHAe  ? 

 

The M1A1/M1A2 Abrams mantlet seems to be about 350 mm thick. Coupled with the 330 mm thickness of the trunion block the total thickness it comes to about 680 mm. Is the 680 mm LOS thickness equal to 597 mm KE RHAe?

 

trunnion block on leo is steel. 

for comparison of thickness between leopard 2A4 and leclerc mantlet, and construction:

leclercVleopard2A4.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards

Here are the measurements for the Leclerc mantlet thickness:

Leclerc S2 Mantlet.jpg

 

Also according to Froggy, the Leclerc mantlet seems to have composite blocks.

Leclerc S2 Mantlet.jpg

Leclerc S2 Mantlet.jpg

Edited by lavictoireestlavie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, lavictoireestlavie said:

Here are the measurements for the Leclerc mantlet thickness:

Leclerc S2 Mantlet.jpg

 

Also according to Froggy, the Leclerc mantlet seems to have composite blocks.

 

 

exact same thickness on the SB model. 420 and 40mm. 

as for composite blocks, i just don't see where you can fit those. between the gunshield and trunnion cover? 

that's only a 95mm gap. 

Edited by dejawolf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards

16 minutes ago, dejawolf said:

exact same thickness on the SB model. 

Ha !!! I just realized that looking at your drawings, my drawings, DarkLabor's drawings, Tamiya's drawing and their model. It all comes down to pretty much the same values. Earlier today, I actually prepared this via interpolation  from your drawing and it came to about 530 mm , where the mantlet block including backplate is 410 mm thick:

Leclerc_interpolation.jpg

Leclerc_interpolation.jpg

Edited by lavictoireestlavie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

7 hours ago, dejawolf said:

exact same thickness on the SB model. 420 and 40mm. 

as for composite blocks, i just don't see where you can fit those. between the gunshield and trunnion cover? 

that's only a 95mm gap. 

 

On 16.3.2014 at 9:04 AM, Froggy said:

Leclerc gun mantlet include in fact composite armor. I discovered it only recently. The only not covered part is the M2 barrel hole.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, lavictoireestlavie said:

I would appreciate any feedback and corrections on a possible Leclerc mantlet-gunmount setup:

 

Even if it is found that it should have less protection? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, lavictoireestlavie said:

The solution:  :D

 

 

strv_ny-18.jpg

 

Look at Merkava Mk 3 & 4.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now