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Rotareneg

We love videos

215 posts in this topic

I'm probably going to reveal my ignorance here, but I just sat through a really good TGIF game video and have a couple of questions.

 

I saw no enemy units appear on the map. Presumably there is some way to have a scenario either with or without the map showing enemy units, with this option fixed from the outset for the duration of the scenario. I can see a downside of having the enemy units shown in that it would make it ridiculously easy to put indirect fire on them, particularly if they are infantry. However, without the enemy being shown on the map, how do players, and most importantly, the overall BG commander and whomever is running logistics, keep up with what is going on and control their units? They could have a print off of the map with a transparent overlay and wax pencils right next to their monitor I guess, but they have to convert sightings to locations, which is going  to be a bit difficult if the only info you get is "A1 this is B3, contact, tanks, front, engaging, wait, out."  How does this work out?

 

There was a MILAN team some distance inside a treeline with some low undergrowth inside it less than a metre high. Firstly, can we be sure an AI MILAN team won't launch straight into a tree? Secondly, will the low underbrush damage the missile or its control wires, or its fuze? I am guessing the missile has a significant minimum safe arm distance. I read somewhere that the minimum engagement distance is 400 metres (but for the ADT-ER version used by South Africa and India 150 metres) with a minimum safe arm of 40 for the ADT-ER version.

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11 hours ago, ChrisWerb said:

I saw no enemy units appear on the map. Presumably there is some way to have a scenario either with or without the map showing enemy units, with this option fixed from the outset for the duration of the scenario. I can see a downside of having the enemy units shown in that it would make it ridiculously easy to put indirect fire on them, particularly if they are infantry. However, without the enemy being shown on the map, how do players, and most importantly, the overall BG commander and whomever is running logistics, keep up with what is going on and control their units? They could have a print off of the map with a transparent overlay and wax pencils right next to their monitor I guess, but they have to convert sightings to locations, which is going  to be a bit difficult if the only info you get is "A1 this is B3, contact, tanks, front, engaging, wait, out."  How does this work out?

 

There are two basic options:

 

A. Enemy map updates are "on". This means enemy units that have been spotted (by AI or humans) are shown. They are only displayed whilst a unit has LOS to them. Often the information about the spotted unit improves with the duration it is spotted for (i.e. one tank seen initially, then a second and a third so the symbol "grows" from a single vehicle to a Platoon over time). If the unit goes into dead ground or LOS is otherwise lost, the icon disappears.

 

B. Enemy map updates are "off". This means enemy units are not shown. Players needs to rely on other players to report sightings / contacts. This can vary from: "There's a tank here!" which usually becomes "Where the #@!%@ is here?", or a grid sent over Teamspeak or chat, or a report on the map (sent to all). Ideally the report on the map includes a time so people can see that was reported X minutes ago and may no longer be accurate.

 

This sort of works if you have a person per vehicle and they communicate (as opposed to just talking). But if you are one person controlling say two platoons you need to be forever jumping from unit to unit to see what is going on. You then need to trust the AI to manage the shooting, or do the shooting yourself and accept the risk that you will miss something while you focus on the one engagement. Often the outcome is you discover the enemy is near one of your units because it was destroyed while you spent time in a different one ("recon by burning callsign").

 

Edited by Gibsonm
Typos / Clarity

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In anti submarine warfare that method of detection is referred to as the "flaming datum" method.

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I cant squint hard enough to make this stuff look like WW2 era gear! Would be nice to see your TGIF recordings again though ;)

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There is a video thread in the ground zero forum that is for anything.  I was under the impression that this was for SB videos like the screen shots one is for in-game screen shots.

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6 hours ago, TSe419E said:

There is a video thread in the ground zero forum that is for anything.  I was under the impression that this was for SB videos like the screen shots one is for in-game screen shots.

+1 I concur.  This should be strictly SB videos. 

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Guys, assuming you are members, can you please also post the SB videos you post here with a short explanation over on the gaming subforum over at tank-net.com - we are try trying to generate some momentum for SB over there.

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4 hours ago, ChrisWerb said:

Guys, assuming you are members, can you please also post the SB videos you post here with a short explanation over on the gaming subforum over at tank-net.com - we are try trying to generate some momentum for SB over there.

 

+1

 

And while we're at it, we probably should make an attempt to post more videos on simhq.com as well.  

 

I suspect that there is a fraction (albeit perhaps a small one) of SB owners (or potential owners) who hesitate to join in SB online play because they expect the same inane juvenile atmosphere prevailing in most other online arenas.  The best way to disabuse them of this notion is by supplying examples of the mature, respectful and tactical gameplay that seems to be the norm.

Edited by MDF

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On 9/29/2016 at 1:11 PM, MDF said:

And while we're at it, we probably should make an attempt to post more videos on simhq.com as well.  

 

 

Done.

 

 

At least started.

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It might be a day or so before I can get around to compressing and uploading the TGIF, so here's a short clip with bits from the game:

 

 

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That short clip is the type that needs to be put on other forums.  While the 90 min. to 120 min. are interesting to look at if you are already involved in long MP sessions.  To capture newer players, videos that show some of the action is a way to funnel them into longer videos that shoe the planning and collaboration.  I think the above clip is perfect for people who don't know what SBPro has become.

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Yes. A good YouTube clip condenses 2 hours of gameplay into no more than 15 minutes that contain the juicy bits. Explain what happened between the major time cuts (be it a voice-over, be it a fast forward of the map screen with own (or all) units shown). Of course, cutting is hard work. Way more work than just uploading a two hours chunk to YouTube. Few people will bother to watch more than two minutes if there's no action (that's not to say that you must edit in Michael Bay style, just that there needs to be something going on visibly).

 

Cut, cut, cut. Pretty much every video is too long. Be merciless. If a scene doesn't contribute to advancing the story, it should usually be cut. Exceptions are possible, but they are called exceptions because they are rare cases.

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The funny thing is, I had comments on the old videos from people saying they preferred the full, unedited videos. O.o

Edited by Rotareneg

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Some people will. Almost all feedback will be from people who like things differently, which creates a significant bias.

 

I'm not saying that 2 hour videos have no place. Yet I wonder if the more successful videos aren't, on the whole, significantly shorter. If you can't generate enough videos for a Google Analytics breakdown of "relative user interest" that's a hint already that the video may be unsuitable for any audience other than the very specific demographic of people who like to watch other people playing a game for two hours. Those may be the dozen or so people with whom you played who are just interested to compare their memories of a game with the video of your perspective. And then maybe a two hundred people with a lot of spare time, or a really intense (and probably rather unnatural) interest in the subject matter.

 

Some gaming channel a while ago generated about 100,000 views in three weeks ... which resulted in approximately 14 copies of SB Pro PE sold above the average during that time. So, given that the conversion rate of video view-to-purchase decision is close to .0001, videos tailored to a very specific audience that are supposed to generate more interest are almost guaranteed to fail their purpose.

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I like the longer videos, and did before i owned the game (Rotars old TGIF clips were an "unnatural" interest of mine for a time!). It does help if you can form some narrative from what the player is viewing at least, such as the other units in contact , or being able to see the event that players are talking about (also the briefing for a second please!) . 15 minute EXPLODEFEST videos are not generally an accurate reflection of the gameplay that SB offers, nor do they develop the feeling of suspense like a longer clip will. Maybe there should be a contest for 'Best MP Game video' ?   ;)

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11 hours ago, Rotareneg said:

The funny thing is, I had comments on the old videos from people saying they preferred the full, unedited videos. O.o

 

Perhaps put both up?

 

A "highlight" reel and an extended cut version.

 

Edited by Gibsonm

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31 minutes ago, Bond_Villian said:

Maybe there should be a contest for 'Best MP Game video' ?   ;)

 

I think they have done that previously already, but could be wrong.

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9 hours ago, Rotareneg said:

The funny thing is, I had comments on the old videos from people saying they preferred the full, unedited videos. O.o

True, I like full game videos...but i'm a irredimable SB addict. Short action clips may be a good way to catch attention. I like it!

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