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munckmb

"Sagger drill"

Can someone explain the so called "sagger drill"? I believe it is a combination of smoke and manoeuvre? Can the ai do it? Thanks!

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The way I understand it:

 

1. Pop smoke

2. Reverse at maximum speed

3. Fire all weapons, particularly machineguns, in the direction of the launching platform/unit

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Thanks! I read the IDF also implemented zig-zag driving and are now incorporating the trophy system to locate the shooter. MG fire at 3000+ meters is next to impossible, but a DM-11 or APAM-MP-T will do the trick I think.

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MG fire at 3000 meters might not be effective at killing the target, but all you need is for the gunner guiding the missile to go "OH @#$! HE'S SHOOTING AT ME!" and jerk the controller...

 

Zig zaging may have been a good idea when the frontal armor was not able to stop the HEAT charge.  Now I suggest squaring up the frontal armor since it's probably pretty resistant, and you'd rather take the hit on the front than the side.

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True, I did some tests an found that the ai could be more aggressive with the OF-29 frag rounds, range is 4000 meters and it is very devastating for ATGM teams. However, they are hardly used even when atgm teams are detected. Further more, if 1 unit from a platoon gets engaged or even destroyed by spotted teams, the other tanks do not react, even popping smoke would be very good I think.

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Sagger Drills, from a US Perspective, are accomplished by driving in a manner that emphasizes aggressive turns and varying speeds. The purpose is to force the ATGM to make large corrections in their tracking, thereby either having them miss completely, or causing the missile to break free from its wire guidance. I don't know if the AI can accomplish this on their own, but I have used Sagger Drills in game, and they do work. 

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Sagger drills work reasonably well ... against Sagger missiles. These missiles are slow (about 100...130m/sec), they have a relatively prominent smoke trail, and in their first generations were entirely manually flown, which makes them difficult to steer on a target with irregular movement.

 

Steel Beasts lets you play the semi-automatic guidance version which came only about a decade later. It's much harder to evade missiles that are faster (most are), more agile (a function of both the guidance system and the missile's maneuverability), and less easy to observe. Still, it's pretty much all that you have when you're in a tank at the receiving end.

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I heard the Egyptian sagger teams trained hard and fired many missiles before Yom Kippur war.

Also the Israeli crews found there tanks covered in guidance wires from zig zaging to try to avoided them.

Post battle.

 

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Well, there were no simulators back then, and the Russians figured that training missiles would cost about 90% as much as a real missile but would require a separate production line, so their solution was to train missile gunners with live missiles. Lots of them. I think you needed on average about 100...120 missiles to qualify as a competent Sagger operator. You must be careful of overswings when correcting the missile flight - otherwise you ground it. You can't make too rapid maneuvers - or the guidance wire breaks and you lose the missile. etc. ...

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+ the funny question: Is my missle still in front or already behind the tank, or how close is it to the tank...MCLOS must have been a hoot :-)

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That's  a lot of missiles to practice with. Should be fun :-) Except for the real war part after...

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On 8/25/2016 at 1:38 AM, Marko said:

I heard the Egyptian sagger teams trained hard and fired many missiles before Yom Kippur war.

Also the Israeli crews found there tanks covered in guidance wires from zig zaging to try to avoided them.

Post battle.

 

An Egyptian Sagger team launching a missile is shown in the following video, between 0:17 and 1:13:

 

The Egyptian infantry divisions defended their bridgeheads relying on massive quantities of AT weapons (in addition to tanks, artillery and hasty-laid mines) of many types: RPGs, B-10 & B-11 RRs, Sagger (portable launchers, BRDM-2 AT & BMP-1) & Shmel ATGMs (GAZ-69 based launchers), D-44 & BS-3 guns, SU-100s, AT hand grenades, etc. 

 

I read about a drill developed by a Centurion battalion in the Golan height after two encounters with Syrian Saggers in August - October 1972 (losses: a metal biscuit box mounted on a Centurion's front hull and a jeep's antenna): One tank was watching for Saggers while two others were engaging the enemy. I guess it could work if the Sagger wasn't launched at the observer tank and if the enemy's position was known or estimated correctly. More advanced missiles made that drill obsolete. 

Edited by Iarmor

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There was an addon to the drill, it was to backup in the treeline as to cut any ATGM guidance wires by the tree branches. It failed miserably.

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