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Could this help attract new players to SB Pro PE


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58 minutes ago, Marko said:

IMO,

I don't really care if 100.000 plus world of tank/War thunder players decided to purchase SB

Why, revenue gentleman the life blood of any private enterprise.

Would I want to game with them, No

Would I want Esim to all of a sudden start selling magic rounds that could kill a tank in an unrealistic way or the more you spend the better chance you have At winning if you buy a gold packages etc.  Hell no.

Would some of the younger players  bring are forum in to disrepute. only if we let them

My point is, Esim if so desired would have the revenue to expand SB make every AFV playable etc. with the addition revenue

You can choose who you game with its a simple process to set up a private scenario for guys who want to keep it real

As things stand anybody can sign up to the forum even if they don't own SB.

I to like they way things are, A small helpful community but.

 I forget what Roman Emperor  made the quote but I believe its relevant. we expand or die.   

 

 

 

 

+1 good sir! 100% agree (though the magic rounds thing wouldn't happen anyway..we're trying to get people to play SB, not World of Steelbeasts - they either get on board with the game as it is, or they don't :P)

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Some introspection is good but I don't think we should hate on ourselves too much.

 

What I love about this community is its appreciation of the sim (we may "play" the game but I think we appreciate its fidelity as a sim), the fact that we love and are committed to combined arms warfare in some way, shape or form (professionally and/or as a leisure activity), our depth of expertise (just read the forum) and desire to master a fluid, ever-changing and challenging virtual environment - sometimes with success and sometimes without. And, yes, I think we are "exclusive" in that, by my count, there are about 1000 guys here that contribute and that's "in the world". I certainly can't have the conversations I have on this forum or on TeamSpeak with other guys, and those include my best mates, so I think it's time to like ourselves a little again and appreciate what we have going, and what eSim has facilitated, here.

Edited by Panzer_Leader
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I think we're talking past each other to some degree because we're stereotyping WoT/AW gamers.  I would think that there is some fraction of that community that has a deeper interest in tank warfare and might be interested in a deeper treatment such as that offered by SB.  The WoT/AW community is HUGE in comparison to SB.  If just 1% of them are serious tank warfare enthusiasts who can be recruited to SB multiplayer, that would increase the size of the current SB online presence many times over.

 

Unfortunately, the more I look into this the more doubtful I become.  For example, on tank-net.com, they have a dedicated sub-forum for WoT with 167 discussion threads, while  there are just a few scattered threads discussing SB.  One would think that tank-net is the ideal place to find potential SB players, and yet SB seems to have little traction there.  Can it really be that SB has such a low profile that people who might be interested simply don't know about it?

 

I wonder if it makes sense to start a dedicated thread in the tank-net Gaming sub-forum dedicated to SB videos.

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58 minutes ago, MDF said:

I think we're talking past each other to some degree because we're stereotyping WoT/AW gamers.  I would think that there is some fraction of that community that has a deeper interest in tank warfare and might be interested in a deeper treatment such as that offered by SB.  The WoT/AW community is HUGE in comparison to SB.  If just 1% of them are serious tank warfare enthusiasts who can be recruited to SB multiplayer, that would increase the size of the current SB online presence many times over.

 

Unfortunately, the more I look into this the more doubtful I become.  For example, on tank-net.com, they have a dedicated sub-forum for WoT with 167 discussion threads, while  there are just a few scattered threads discussing SB.  One would think that tank-net is the ideal place to find potential SB players, and yet SB seems to have little traction there.  Can it really be that SB has such a low profile that people who might be interested simply don't know about it?

 

I wonder if it makes sense to start a dedicated thread in the tank-net Gaming sub-forum dedicated to SB videos.

 

As I said in another post, I think that the WoT discussions are the way that they are (poor), because of the game..not because of the people in it. The game is naturally geared to foster those sort of discussions (and that sort of behaviour) and I think quite a number of those people, will change their tone and conversation-style once they are out of the WoT environment.

 

Quite simply, if you don't do the "WoT"-style of discussion in their WoT section, you will never make any headway.

 

I think there are is a lot to gain out there, it's "just" a matter of promoting SteelBeasts as best we can and in that way, find the people who would have a much better time with us, than WoT..or even both! :D

 

I mean think about it, given enough promotion and organisation, we can make sure we have more players AND that esim gets richer, which might (only might) get us more of the stuff we want in the long run for the game ^_^ (though e-sim could of course spend their money elsewhere if they have other priorities)

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1 hour ago, MDF said:

One would think that tank-net is the ideal place to find potential SB players, and yet SB seems to have little traction there. Can it really be that SB has such a low profile that people who might be interested simply don't know about it?

 

I don't think that SB has a low profile on TankNet that it is "unknown". Maybe ChrisWerb can say a bit about it, he was around on TankNet for ages and only recently realized that he didn't have a full picture of what SB Pro actually offered. Maybe it's a case that some over there either never bothered to have a closer look at SB Pro because "it's just a toy thing" (some of the users there seem to be more interested in tank repair and maintenance because they own an armored vehicle, or are supporters of a local museum; some others were master gunners in the 1970s and have little appreciation for PC based simulations). Others may never have bothered to look at SB Pro because of the price point. Some may have looked at SB Pro ten or fifteen years ago, maybe they found it lacking, and never bothered to follow what progress was made over the years. Then there are probably some "silent connoisseurs" who simply discuss Steel Beasts related issues over here and not there. They probably have a different user name, so it's difficult to track that aspect.

And then there are those who simply want a simple, casual tank game, and that a serious simulation is "too much like work" for them. Or it simply is a matter of lack of time; the average user of Steel Beasts (based on YouTube's user statistics ... which I, when watching other YT videos while actually logged in, poison with false data (I'm 115 years old now, and from Afghanistan)) I estimate to be in his mid-forties, plus/minus 20 years.

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1 hour ago, MDF said:

I think we're talking past each other to some degree because we're stereotyping WoT/AW gamers.  I would think that there is some fraction of that community that has a deeper interest in tank warfare and might be interested in a deeper treatment such as that offered by SB.  The WoT/AW community is HUGE in comparison to SB.  If just 1% of them are serious tank warfare enthusiasts who can be recruited to SB multiplayer, that would increase the size of the current SB online presence many times over.

 

Unfortunately, the more I look into this the more doubtful I become.  For example, on tank-net.com, they have a dedicated sub-forum for WoT with 167 discussion threads, while  there are just a few scattered threads discussing SB.  One would think that tank-net is the ideal place to find potential SB players, and yet SB seems to have little traction there.  Can it really be that SB has such a low profile that people who might be interested simply don't know about it?

 

I wonder if it makes sense to start a dedicated thread in the tank-net Gaming sub-forum dedicated to SB videos.

Cant do any harm to set up a dedicated video thread on tank net.

I could never understand why SB wasn't more popular over on tank net.

most of the guys there are hard-core armour enthusiasts one would have thought SB would be right up there alley.

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5 hours ago, Ssnake said:

 

I don't think that SB has a low profile on TankNet that it is "unknown". Maybe ChrisWerb can say a bit about it, he was around on TankNet for ages and only recently realized that he didn't have a full picture of what SB Pro actually offered. Maybe it's a case that some over there either never bothered to have a closer look at SB Pro because "it's just a toy thing" (some of the users there seem to be more interested in tank repair and maintenance because they own an armored vehicle, or are supporters of a local museum; some others were master gunners in the 1970s and have little appreciation for PC based simulations). Others may never have bothered to look at SB Pro because of the price point. Some may have looked at SB Pro ten or fifteen years ago, maybe they found it lacking, and never bothered to follow what progress was made over the years. Then there are probably some "silent connoisseurs" who simply discuss Steel Beasts related issues over here and not there. They probably have a different user name, so it's difficult to track that aspect.

And then there are those who simply want a simple, casual tank game, and that a serious simulation is "too much like work" for them. Or it simply is a matter of lack of time; the average user of Steel Beasts (based on YouTube's user statistics ... which I, when watching other YT videos while actually logged in, poison with false data (I'm 115 years old now, and from Afghanistan)) I estimate to be in his mid-forties, plus/minus 20 years.

Well my four your old granddaughter plays SB with me.

Sad thing is she is a better shot then I am. LoL

But seriously she loves it.

I know you Esim guys are busy but.

Why not run a competition for a free licence/ coffee mug.etc everybody loves a freebie.

I know you don't need to tout for business but it would seem like an ideal place to attract more SB players.

  Or hold a virtual open day over on tank net.

Some of the more experienced SB players could talk to some potential customers.

Tell them what were all about. and just how good SB is.

 

Edited by Marko
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38 minutes ago, Ssnake said:

 

I don't think that SB has a low profile on TankNet that it is "unknown". Maybe ChrisWerb can say a bit about it, he was around on TankNet for ages and only recently realized that he didn't have a full picture of what SB Pro actually offered. Maybe it's a case that some over there either never bothered to have a closer look at SB Pro because "it's just a toy thing" (some of the users there seem to be more interested in tank repair and maintenance because they own an armored vehicle, or are supporters of a local museum; some others were master gunners in the 1970s and have little appreciation for PC based simulations). Others may never have bothered to look at SB Pro because of the price point. Some may have looked at SB Pro ten or fifteen years ago, maybe they found it lacking, and never bothered to follow what progress was made over the years. Then there are probably some "silent connoisseurs" who simply discuss Steel Beasts related issues over here and not there. They probably have a different user name, so it's difficult to track that aspect.

And then there are those who simply want a simple, casual tank game, and that a serious simulation is "too much like work" for them. Or it simply is a matter of lack of time; the average user of Steel Beasts (based on YouTube's user statistics ... which I, when watching other YT videos while actually logged in, poison with false data (I'm 115 years old now, and from Afghanistan)) I estimate to be in his mid-forties, plus/minus 20 years.

 

These are certainly reasonable statements, but other than the population that wants a casual-style game, how does one explain the huge interest in WoT in comparison to SB?  Why would a Master Gunner turn his nose up at SB in favor or WoT?!  Perhaps some of this can be explained by a decided preference for WWII combat, but there doesn't seem to be a shortage of discussion over there of Cold War and modern-era equipment.

 

I suppose I will have to take it upon myself to start posting some mission videos over there.

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I've played with Steel Beasts since Steel Beasts Gold was released, but am new to SB Pro. My primary interest in the game has always been more along the lines of a vehicle sim, especially the gunnery and gunner/commander cooperative interaction in engaging targets. The map side of the game isn't my cup of tea. Coming from flight sims and competitive shooting, I appreciate the commander simulation and larger picture the map side of the game provides, but have little personal interest in running more than a single tank and really prefer running the gun.

Trying multiplayer one weekend turned me off. The game play was exclusively mapside. One of the devs lead the game and genuinely seemed bored, irritable, and very much like he'd prefer to be doing anything else. The guys on teamspeak seamed to be a mix of neckbeards who took the game way too seriously and former military guys who spent their time biting their tongues and practicing patience with the other players. There wasn't any real banter or intelligent conversation and it seemed like some of the guys were just relieved when the game was over. I didn't enjoy it at all.

I think the game could definitely use some fresh blood. One way to do this would be to examine DCS and an event called "Blue Flag." Some groups have set up 24/7 servers that run red vs blue games. The scripts used allow the two sides to capture airbases, towns, and FARPs, which aside from advancing the FLOT, also give some benefits like having more radar SAMs to be deployed by helo pilots.  Airbases spawn AI units when enemy aircraft are detected by radar, keeping the game from turning into a pushover when few players are playing, and locations can be hampered or shut down by destroying key structures, like knocking out the ammo bunkers or fuel tanks at an airfield or FARP, disallowing rearming and refueling at those locations until repaired. Fixed wing guys do most of the killing, defending, and breaking stuff on the ground and in the air while helo pilots attack ground targets with attack helos, or use transport helos to strategically place early warning radars, radar SAMs, troops with MANPADs, bring supplies to speed up repair of damaged bases, and carry troops forward to capture bases, towns, and FARPs that have been cleared of enemy hostiles by other friendly players. Victory conditions are set and the server can automatically restart when those conditions are met. I find it to be a lot more fun than set piece scenarios.

Concerning mapside play in SBPro, it just isn't as "fun" ordering NATO symbols around a topo map without getting to "see" the terrain, the machines firing, popping smoke, taking hits, etc. If an overhead view camera, integrating sensor fog of war, could be integrated that allowed one player on each team to act as a commander and actually see the units he's commanding, placing markers and waypoints in real time for players on their team and directly controlling AI units ala Wargame, eSim could better draw in players from strategy games. I have friends who'd love to play an overhead-view strategy game that had good unit AI and accurate armor and ballistic simulation, since that's what they were expecting from Wargame.

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I am sorry to hear you had that terrible multiplayer experience with SB. What you describe is surely not the usual way it works here.

Usually it is quite fun and people here is quite friendly. You have to bear in mind the average age in this comunity is more mature than you may find in other virtual comunities, so do not expect the same teen:P nonsenses conversations and jokes that you may find in other comunities.

Usually if you just want to play with just a single tank unit as gunner nobody is going to object on that so you do not have to command a whole Company or larger unit. It is up to you

Howver let me tell you I find you comments about the participants "neckbeards" and the lack of "intelligent conversation"  unfortunate  and not very constructive.

 

I know DCS very well. I have been official Beta Tester for Eagle Dynamics  for some years, you can still find my name on the game credits so I know the game and its comunity quite well and I can confortably tell you that comparing both sims and comunities its not working.

We are talking about different software pieces with different target audiences and absolutely different gameplay concept.

While some of the DCS modules are absolutely well delatilled and modelled it is up to the people that operates them to use them either in the "fun way" or in the "military realistic way". In DCS not all the flying "Aces" even know what is their aircraft Vlo, Vle....speeds for instance so they operate the aircraft in a casual funny way 

I am a real life pilot and a former Air Force officer, I can tell you that if you play DCS the real military way, you will probably find it complicated, cumbersome and boring.

So DCS and the online activity you describe is a real fun online gamming using some some really well modelled modules in a casual and funny way. Nothing to critizise. It is nice and fun and it fits very good the gameplay of the DCS comunity. DCS also allows some hardcore virtual units to play it the "mil-sim" way but as I mentioned you will probably find that boring.

 

Here in Steel Beasts comunity in the MP games we like to enjoy the sim playing it in a realistic way. You can surely play it in a funny way as well, make tank races......

That is the reason that in the online world exists many different comunities instead just one that tries to fit everybody wishes.

This way everybody can choose the one or ones that fits him better. The is no one comunity better than other. Just the one that fits you better.

Edited by Furia
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Hey RattyHHG, check out TGIF for some hands-on style MP gameplay. You can find clips on youtube of some TGIF meetings, and whilst these games do involve looking at the map a bit, i think youll find the gameplay to be intense and the players fairly lighthearted. Plenty of banter and 'gun time'.

 You can find the details here;

 

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8 hours ago, RattyHHG said:

I've played with Steel Beasts since Steel Beasts Gold was released, but am new to SB Pro. My primary interest in the game has always been more along the lines of a vehicle sim, especially the gunnery and gunner/commander cooperative interaction in engaging targets. The map side of the game isn't my cup of tea. Coming from flight sims and competitive shooting, I appreciate the commander simulation and larger picture the map side of the game provides, but have little personal interest in running more than a single tank and really prefer running the gun.

Trying multiplayer one weekend turned me off. The game play was exclusively mapside. One of the devs lead the game and genuinely seemed bored, irritable, and very much like he'd prefer to be doing anything else. The guys on teamspeak seamed to be a mix of neckbeards who took the game way too seriously and former military guys who spent their time biting their tongues and practicing patience with the other players. There wasn't any real banter or intelligent conversation and it seemed like some of the guys were just relieved when the game was over. I didn't enjoy it at all.

I think the game could definitely use some fresh blood. One way to do this would be to examine DCS and an event called "Blue Flag." Some groups have set up 24/7 servers that run red vs blue games. The scripts used allow the two sides to capture airbases, towns, and FARPs, which aside from advancing the FLOT, also give some benefits like having more radar SAMs to be deployed by helo pilots.  Airbases spawn AI units when enemy aircraft are detected by radar, keeping the game from turning into a pushover when few players are playing, and locations can be hampered or shut down by destroying key structures, like knocking out the ammo bunkers or fuel tanks at an airfield or FARP, disallowing rearming and refueling at those locations until repaired. Fixed wing guys do most of the killing, defending, and breaking stuff on the ground and in the air while helo pilots attack ground targets with attack helos, or use transport helos to strategically place early warning radars, radar SAMs, troops with MANPADs, bring supplies to speed up repair of damaged bases, and carry troops forward to capture bases, towns, and FARPs that have been cleared of enemy hostiles by other friendly players. Victory conditions are set and the server can automatically restart when those conditions are met. I find it to be a lot more fun than set piece scenarios.

Concerning mapside play in SBPro, it just isn't as "fun" ordering NATO symbols around a topo map without getting to "see" the terrain, the machines firing, popping smoke, taking hits, etc. If an overhead view camera, integrating sensor fog of war, could be integrated that allowed one player on each team to act as a commander and actually see the units he's commanding, placing markers and waypoints in real time for players on their team and directly controlling AI units ala Wargame, eSim could better draw in players from strategy games. I have friends who'd love to play an overhead-view strategy game that had good unit AI and accurate armor and ballistic simulation, since that's what they were expecting from Wargame.

 

The MP games have changed a lot recently. (At least on the european play hours)

Vitrual units like Kanium and D.O.W. did a great job rekruiting and providing mission content. The effect is that more player get drawn to games giving the individual player more chances to play a the command level that suits him.

So playing at single vehicle level is pretty much the norm now. (which I enjoy very much), So if you have the chance to join one of the sunday games around 1800 UTC, you'll definetively have a different experience now.

 

As for the 24/7 servers, IMO this will continue to be a flight-sim thing. Its just not realy doable on the command level that steelbeasts simulates to have a purely AI-controlled enemy that does sensable stuff. You would need to have RED and BLUE fully human controlled and people willing to run it for a long time and do "real" handover-drills when people(esp. commanders) go off/online (but it would be an interssting event to organize such a 24 hour game :-P )

 

Edited by Grenny
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I think there´s plenty of variety here in the SB comunity for everyone to enjoy. It might be hard to grasp at first (as a newbi) beacuse the threads are spread out so you have to lurk at first.  I don´t think the starter pack is bad or the SBwiki es bad, but there are other way´s of doing it from my experiance.  Some forums have a beginner´s section dedicated to them where beginner´s ask questions among each other and anybody with more experiance can jump in and try to help them out if they wish so or have the time for.  It work´s quite good in most forums and beginner´s don´t feel left out.  This is just my opinion and I guess the admins have there own reason why not to do so which I respect. This is for the original poster´s question which has derived into various opinions based on personal experiance´s.

 

Most of us have red 300-500 page manuals or books, I don´t think this is the hard way of doing it beacuse if you enjoy what your reading it´s just not hard for you to do it beacuse you´r enjoying what you´r reading. But the thing is that "some" of us either don´t have all that time, or tierd of reading hundres of page´s which half the stuff they don´t understand, or they just want to try out SB to see if they will like it.

 

I personaly have always liked aviation.  As a kid I knew some little things about aviation and even bought some books.  I was around 13 then and I even remeber drawing the front dash of a Cessna on a pice of wood and pretend I was flying.  The most I knew was what dials did what and that´s about it.  Which brings me to my next personal experiance.  My first real contact with a "hardcore" sim was with Falcon 4, and printed out hundres of pages of the different documentation out there and tried to understand it all, but was still unsure what a GBU, SAM´s and the rest could do.  Iam not ashamed to say I learned Falcon 4 online beacuse a ex-Viatnam pilot took the time to teach us online.  What Iam saying is that sometimes the best way to learn is "hands-on" no matter how many manuals you read.  Not all methods are good for everybody, and not one method is the best or only way of doing it.  We see this everywhere, school, work etc...

 

I have played guitar for many years, I don´t do much now as I don´t have time.  I have also worked in the music industry in the past with top name artist which I will not get into. But I have learned alot about this.  I don´t care much about credentials, it´s nice to have them but sometimes there are not what you need unless you want to brag about them.  I have played with many musicians, some make a living about it some don´t.  I will not use the word profesional as it´s a big word, but I understand it means you get paid for it and that´s about it, as In my experiance someone can alway´s know more then you do, this is a big world.  I have played with musicians that came right out of top end schools, but when it came to "improvisation", "feeling" and writting there own songs they had no Idea, all they knew was how to play whats on the music sheet! Or some have the attitude that "my way is the correct and best way of doing it"  I have seen a 10 year old Gypsy that didn´even know how to write or read blow away some smart ass guitarist that thought he was it!  It got to a point that when I played with new musicians I would not ask for credentials or if they knew this scale or that, I would just pick up my guitar, close my eyes and say "play"!  I would then judge there "feeling" and "attitude" no matter how simple the song would be.  That´s why some top bands switch musicians, beacuse of attitude :smile2:

 

There´s a saying, "don´t tell people waht to do, just let them do it and you will be suppriesd of what they can do". I agree that tactically it´s not the correct way to go, but you know what I mean.  SB is not that hard at first, you jump in drive, switch positions, fire etc.  That´s real nice, what´s even nicer is that it can get way more complicated the more you get into it.  I don´t see SB as a flight sim, If you don´t know what your doing in a B757 you just won´t take-off it´s easy as that. There´s no IVAO, no VATSIM with SB, besides I have seen some off the wall stuff there too.  On the other hand, with SB as long as you know some simple key´s you can do something in SB the first time you try it.  That´s how cool it can be for a beginner.

 

One might not know all that SB can do as a beginner, but if you let him make mistakes and try not to be to picky, he will sure come back for more.  Again, Iam not generalazing just pointing out things that could happen.  No body like´s to be on TS waiting a half-hour listening to a bunch of crap beacuse some "bunker buddy´s" are chating away, or some "pro" thinks the mission is not pro enough. It happens and will happen, but if you don´t have time to teach, I don´t have time for that either.

 

Being humble is the nices´t thing in the world, apologies show´s maturity.  There´s a movie called "Into the wild" directed by Sean Penn, it has beautiful photography and it´s based on a real life story. It´s a lesson in life :smile2:

 

Good care,

 

Red

Edited by Red2112
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Its always good to have the patience with nowcommers and a willingness to teach.

That however becomes a challenge, when you have the feeling that the other side does not care.

 

We had an MP game time ago when a guy showed up. He controlled a tank...but didn't respond (much) on TS and didn't stick with his platoon but went of to fight his own battle, which he lost pretty fast. He the asked for another tank which was handed to him(after all mistakes can happen). Again he rolled of without listening to any advice or command...lost his tank again and asked for the next one. That was the moment when other players said: No, get lost.

 

It always must be a 2-way road.

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16 hours ago, RattyHHG said:

I've played with Steel Beasts since Steel Beasts Gold was released, but am new to SB Pro. My primary interest in the game has always been more along the lines of a vehicle sim, especially the gunnery and gunner/commander cooperative interaction in engaging targets. The map side of the game isn't my cup of tea. Coming from flight sims and competitive shooting, I appreciate the commander simulation and larger picture the map side of the game provides, but have little personal interest in running more than a single tank and really prefer running the gun.

Trying multiplayer one weekend turned me off. The game play was exclusively mapside. One of the devs lead the game and genuinely seemed bored, irritable, and very much like he'd prefer to be doing anything else. The guys on teamspeak seamed to be a mix of neckbeards who took the game way too seriously and former military guys who spent their time biting their tongues and practicing patience with the other players. There wasn't any real banter or intelligent conversation and it seemed like some of the guys were just relieved when the game was over. I didn't enjoy it at all.

I think the game could definitely use some fresh blood. One way to do this would be to examine DCS and an event called "Blue Flag." Some groups have set up 24/7 servers that run red vs blue games. The scripts used allow the two sides to capture airbases, towns, and FARPs, which aside from advancing the FLOT, also give some benefits like having more radar SAMs to be deployed by helo pilots.  Airbases spawn AI units when enemy aircraft are detected by radar, keeping the game from turning into a pushover when few players are playing, and locations can be hampered or shut down by destroying key structures, like knocking out the ammo bunkers or fuel tanks at an airfield or FARP, disallowing rearming and refueling at those locations until repaired. Fixed wing guys do most of the killing, defending, and breaking stuff on the ground and in the air while helo pilots attack ground targets with attack helos, or use transport helos to strategically place early warning radars, radar SAMs, troops with MANPADs, bring supplies to speed up repair of damaged bases, and carry troops forward to capture bases, towns, and FARPs that have been cleared of enemy hostiles by other friendly players. Victory conditions are set and the server can automatically restart when those conditions are met. I find it to be a lot more fun than set piece scenarios.

Concerning mapside play in SBPro, it just isn't as "fun" ordering NATO symbols around a topo map without getting to "see" the terrain, the machines firing, popping smoke, taking hits, etc. If an overhead view camera, integrating sensor fog of war, could be integrated that allowed one player on each team to act as a commander and actually see the units he's commanding, placing markers and waypoints in real time for players on their team and directly controlling AI units ala Wargame, eSim could better draw in players from strategy games. I have friends who'd love to play an overhead-view strategy game that had good unit AI and accurate armor and ballistic simulation, since that's what they were expecting from Wargame.

 

1. There is overhead view in the newest version. It has to be enabled in the scenario itself. When I first saw it I said "I get a Close Combat vibe out of this".

2. It might have just been a bad day. In TGIF and with the Kanium guys there is often banter.

3. It might have just been a bad mission or there was too much for everyone to handle. Usually one spends less time in the map than in the gun/crew positions. If you prefer that just say "I'd prefer running a platoon" or something like that. Most if not all the time you would be accommodated if it is possible.

Edited by TankHunter
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5 minutes ago, Grenny said:

Its always good to have the patience with nowcommers and a willingness to teach.

That however becomes a challenge, when you have the feeling that the other side does not care.

 

We had an MP game time ago when a guy showed up. He controlled a tank...but didn't respond (much) on TS and didn't stick with his platoon but went of to fight his own battle, which he lost pretty fast. He the asked for another tank which was handed to him(after all mistakes can happen). Again he rolled of without listening to any advice or command...lost his tank again and asked for the next one. That was the moment when other players said: No, get lost.

 

It always must be a 2-way road.

 

I agree Grenny.  In this case it was easy to see what this guy was all about, lucky enough :smile2:  Yes there will be players like that always, as there will always be players who "take the info and run", but I don´t think it´s SB´s comunity fault.

 

All Iam saying is that you can´t always judge a book by it´s cover.

 

I myself as a youngster used to build alot of plastic models, all of them military related, so I like anything military that moves be it land, air or sea, so it has been easy to like tanks for me. As I stated before I play Armored Warfare, I knew about SB before I ever got into AW, but I admit that AW gave me that little push to get into a more realistic ambiant like SB and here Iam. It just goes to show that "some" folks who do play WoT/AW might be potential future SB players and/or become better hardcore players.

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22 hours ago, RattyHHG said:

I've played with Steel Beasts since Steel Beasts Gold was released, but am new to SB Pro. My primary interest in the game has always been more along the lines of a vehicle sim, especially the gunnery and gunner/commander cooperative interaction in engaging targets. The map side of the game isn't my cup of tea. Coming from flight sims and competitive shooting, I appreciate the commander simulation and larger picture the map side of the game provides, but have little personal interest in running more than a single tank and really prefer running the gun.

Trying multiplayer one weekend turned me off. The game play was exclusively mapside. One of the devs lead the game and genuinely seemed bored, irritable, and very much like he'd prefer to be doing anything else. The guys on teamspeak seamed to be a mix of neckbeards who took the game way too seriously and former military guys who spent their time biting their tongues and practicing patience with the other players. There wasn't any real banter or intelligent conversation and it seemed like some of the guys were just relieved when the game was over. I didn't enjoy it at all.

I think the game could definitely use some fresh blood. One way to do this would be to examine DCS and an event called "Blue Flag." Some groups have set up 24/7 servers that run red vs blue games. The scripts used allow the two sides to capture airbases, towns, and FARPs, which aside from advancing the FLOT, also give some benefits like having more radar SAMs to be deployed by helo pilots.  Airbases spawn AI units when enemy aircraft are detected by radar, keeping the game from turning into a pushover when few players are playing, and locations can be hampered or shut down by destroying key structures, like knocking out the ammo bunkers or fuel tanks at an airfield or FARP, disallowing rearming and refueling at those locations until repaired. Fixed wing guys do most of the killing, defending, and breaking stuff on the ground and in the air while helo pilots attack ground targets with attack helos, or use transport helos to strategically place early warning radars, radar SAMs, troops with MANPADs, bring supplies to speed up repair of damaged bases, and carry troops forward to capture bases, towns, and FARPs that have been cleared of enemy hostiles by other friendly players. Victory conditions are set and the server can automatically restart when those conditions are met. I find it to be a lot more fun than set piece scenarios.

Concerning mapside play in SBPro, it just isn't as "fun" ordering NATO symbols around a topo map without getting to "see" the terrain, the machines firing, popping smoke, taking hits, etc. If an overhead view camera, integrating sensor fog of war, could be integrated that allowed one player on each team to act as a commander and actually see the units he's commanding, placing markers and waypoints in real time for players on their team and directly controlling AI units ala Wargame, eSim could better draw in players from strategy games. I have friends who'd love to play an overhead-view strategy game that had good unit AI and accurate armor and ballistic simulation, since that's what they were expecting from Wargame.

 

Dunno... former military guys and guys who take the sim way too seriously sound like ideal multiplayer companions to me.:D

 

However, the experience you describe sounds rather different than my own online experiences over the past 3 years.  The only times I've spent most of a mission in the map view are when I am the top-level CO (battalion or company).  In such situations, there's no way around it - in order to command effectively, you can't be looking through a gunsight.  You need to focus on the bigger picture and that's what maps are for.  

 

The gunsight:map ratio improves as you pass down through platoon command level and then to individual vehicle control.  But even if you're controlling just a single vehicle, you still have to spend a fair amount of time on the map just to mentally process contact reports and create movement routes for your unit.  You could forgo plotting movement routes if you had a human driver, but few online sessions have enough attendance relative to the size of the force to permit the luxury of  fully crewed (TC, gunner, driver) vehicles from the start.  You can avoid the map interface if you just want to be a gunner in a vehicle commanded by another human.  Especially during the latter stages of a mission, when attrition has reduced the vehicle pool relative to the number of players, it's often possible to take the gunner position in someone else's vehicle.

 

As far as your quasi-campaign concept, I think this is unlikely due to limitations on mission scripting capabilities, for one thing.  However, the mission we ran in TGIF last night bore some similarities to your concept, in that capturing various objectives enabled your side to gain reinforcements or denied them to the other side..

Edited by MDF
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2 hours ago, MDF said:

The gunsight:map ratio improves as you pass down through platoon command level and then to individual vehicle control.  But even if you're controlling just a single vehicle, you still have to spend a fair amount of time on the map just to mentally process contact reports and create movement routes for your unit.

 

Not sure about "improves", but it certainly "changes".

 

If you control a BattleGroup or Combat Team / Company then maybe 20% 3D world, 80% Map

 

If you control a Platoon or Troop then maybe 50% 3D world, 50% Map

 

If you control an individual vehicle then maybe 70% 3D world, 30% Map

 

If you are a human player (say Gunner) with a human Crew Commander then probably 90% 3D world, 10% Map

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Nils referenced me in a post above. I only knew him as Snake until recently, but I'm guessing we've been interacting in a low-key way for over 16 years over on tank-net.com and possibly longer on its predecessor. I am a plank owner and (dormant!) moderator over there. There have been a lot of changes to the TN community over the years and it has declined markedly over the last decade, which is very sad - participation is way down on its heyday and we now have a persistent google security page warning that must be cutting down our visitors even more. My own personal history with SB is that I was vaguely aware of it, but perceived it as a more technically accurate WoT - I recently took a closer look through a sheer frustration with the increasing unreality of WoT and uninstalled the latter after >16,000 games. I had tried to make WoT more real for myself - for example I never used any consumables other than ammunition. I had no idea of the depth of SB and, having played a variety of serious wargames in the past (Steel Panthers and Harpoon in particular), I was instantly hooked on the videos as Snake will know from my posting over on TN. I have ordered a new PC to play SB with the intention of being a serious participant. I wouldn't describe myself as a "neck beard", despite owning a web design company - I scuba dive, snorkel, kayak and used to hunt with rifles, air rifles and shotguns until recently. However, being a serious participant is what really appeals to me, partly because I was unable to join the Army for real. I am wary of being perceived as "walting" so never got into reenactment etc. SB offers a way into a community that has the potential to give me some of what I missed out on. I particularly like the idea of undertaking the various CSS, engineer, medical, artillery, air defence etc. roles in the game, but I was always a pretty good shot - particularly lead deflection - in WoT and the older Western and many somewhat later Soviet tanks really appeal to me from that perspective.

I am completely perplexed that there is not more crossover from TN to SB. It amazes me that people with some serious real life tanking credentials have a staggering amount of games in WoT and persist with it despite recent realism "upgrades". WoT has some really great people working for it and has spawned some amazing informative videos by experts like Nick Moran, but it is what it is. When I have had the chance to get properly acquainted with SB first hand and have hopefully established a little credibility here I will happily be the SB "mole" over on tank-net. I would be very surprised if I couldn't tempt a few of them over to SB. I'll return there and post a few of my favourite videos now along with a disclaimer.

 

Edited by ChrisWerb
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15 minutes ago, ChrisWerb said:

I particularly like the idea of undertaking the various CSS, engineer, medical, artillery, air defence etc. roles in the game, but I was always a pretty good shot - particularly lead deflection - in WoT and the older Western and many somewhat later Soviet tanks really appeal to me from that perspective.

 

 

Manual lead deflection is quite an important skill to have. It only takes one well placed enemy round to damage your stabilization or ballistic computer, rendering dynamic lead useless. Being able to continue to fight degraded is absolutely necessary. 

 

You will definitely enjoy the newly modeled T-72B1. You do have to apply manual lead, but the onboard ballistic computer gives you a firing solution that helps to ensure a first round hit.

 

Also, having someone who enjoys controlling logistics is always welcome. Logistics is something that the average player never considers in a multiplayer session... until you find your vehicle low on fuel, ammo, damaged from enemy fire, and with your loader wounded. 

 

 

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On Saturday, September 10, 2016 at 2:35 AM, RattyHHG said:

I've played with Steel Beasts since Steel Beasts Gold was released, but am new to SB Pro. My primary interest in the game has always been more along the lines of a vehicle sim, especially the gunnery and gunner/commander cooperative interaction in engaging targets. The map side of the game isn't my cup of tea. Coming from flight sims and competitive shooting, I appreciate the commander simulation and larger picture the map side of the game provides, but have little personal interest in running more than a single tank and really prefer running the gun.

Trying multiplayer one weekend turned me off. The game play was exclusively mapside. One of the devs lead the game and genuinely seemed bored, irritable, and very much like he'd prefer to be doing anything else. The guys on teamspeak seamed to be a mix of neckbeards who took the game way too seriously and former military guys who spent their time biting their tongues and practicing patience with the other players. There wasn't any real banter or intelligent conversation and it seemed like some of the guys were just relieved when the game was over. I didn't enjoy it at all.

I think the game could definitely use some fresh blood. One way to do this would be to examine DCS and an event called "Blue Flag." Some groups have set up 24/7 servers that run red vs blue games. The scripts used allow the two sides to capture airbases, towns, and FARPs, which aside from advancing the FLOT, also give some benefits like having more radar SAMs to be deployed by helo pilots.  Airbases spawn AI units when enemy aircraft are detected by radar, keeping the game from turning into a pushover when few players are playing, and locations can be hampered or shut down by destroying key structures, like knocking out the ammo bunkers or fuel tanks at an airfield or FARP, disallowing rearming and refueling at those locations until repaired. Fixed wing guys do most of the killing, defending, and breaking stuff on the ground and in the air while helo pilots attack ground targets with attack helos, or use transport helos to strategically place early warning radars, radar SAMs, troops with MANPADs, bring supplies to speed up repair of damaged bases, and carry troops forward to capture bases, towns, and FARPs that have been cleared of enemy hostiles by other friendly players. Victory conditions are set and the server can automatically restart when those conditions are met. I find it to be a lot more fun than set piece scenarios.

Concerning mapside play in SBPro, it just isn't as "fun" ordering NATO symbols around a topo map without getting to "see" the terrain, the machines firing, popping smoke, taking hits, etc. If an overhead view camera, integrating sensor fog of war, could be integrated that allowed one player on each team to act as a commander and actually see the units he's commanding, placing markers and waypoints in real time for players on their team and directly controlling AI units ala Wargame, eSim could better draw in players from strategy games. I have friends who'd love to play an overhead-view strategy game that had good unit AI and accurate armor and ballistic simulation, since that's what they were expecting from Wagame

Do NOT let this turn you off. What time zone are you normally in?

 

Give me a shout and we will give it a second shot. Especially with the aspect of vehicle / gunner in focus. 

 

We have people that live for commanding. Other for shooting. And then there is everyone in between.

 

Give me a shout if you are interested . 

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