Best Way to learn?

[SovietOnion]

Hey gents.

 

Had the game for just under a week now. Feeling comfortable with the M1A2, and to a lesser extent the A1 and the M2A2 control wise. I'm spearheading a group of 8-20 other new players, with my goal being to learn first and teach them second.

 

My question to the community is: What is the best way to learn? What should I learn first? What's the best way to practice drills? Any tips for making teaching missions? The question is rather open and vague, sorry about that. We're all from another military sim community, so we're familiar with most terms regarding tanks, but not in their effective simulation employment. 

 

Second question: Would a "Lessons learned" video series following our first baby steps into Steel Beast's be a fun idea, or just too painful for you more experienced players to watch? Examples below.

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2016 by SovietOnion

[Grenny]

Welcome.

Hope your group will be success and we see you on the virtual field soon.

 

There are a couple of US fieldmanuals delivered with the SB Installation( they can also be found online). Use them as a framework for training. Best way for gaming would be a try-n-error approach IMHO. Try to implement the FM drills and SOPs on steelbeasts terrain....and what and how it works ...or what gets you killed.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Grenny

[Bond_Villian]

Welcome to SB! I would strongly recommend getting involved in as many Multiplayer games as you can, its often an environment in which you can learn how to fight a vehicle in the context of a battle that you dont have to manage/control every part of. Its also a hell of a lot of fun. There are also starter packs etc here on the forum, and the WIKI is a wealth of info too.

 Enjoy, hope to see you online!

[Ssnake]

1. Complete a set of tutorials for one vehicle first, practice for a while, and when you get the hang of it, move on to the next vehicle of your interest. Working your way through vehicles of the same family helps, of course, but usually you will only get variations of the same fire control system, of course
2. When you're familiar with a vehicle, it's time to start thinking tactically. Try to manage several platoons, try to coordinate different types of units, learn which tasks they are better at, and which tasks you should leave to others. In other words, what the specialties are, and their strong and weak sides. The same applies, of course, to Opfor units. You can do this alone, but I think that doing this in multiplayer will work better.
3. As has been mentioned, your Steel Beasts program folder in the Windows Start Menu contains a "Documents" folder. It is a treasure trove of additional information.
4. Likewise, the SB Wiki will at some point become an imporetant source of info, particularly on vehicles that have no tutorial set in Steel Beasts.
5. Consider the difficulty settings. Setting things on "Easy" makes things easier, "Hard" difficulty will be more frustrating. Realism settings, by the way, will not change simulation results. You just have fewer HUD elements that may help maintaining your situational awareness

In the long run the biggest challenge is, of course, to make important tactical decisions while you don't have a clear picture of the tactical situation. Some decisions take a long time to execute and therefore must be made at the tight moment. Making the right decision, and making it at the right moment, is where masters of the art separate from the amateurs.

[Gibsonm]

Well apart from the Wiki entry that we wrote for almost just this purpose:

 

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbwiki/index.php?title=Starter_Pack

 

Another option is to come along to a VU in a convenient time zone (refer the Calendar) or relevant threads.

 

There you can not only do "Q & A" but also probably gain the context or see the Q answered in terms of the sim (much better than a mass of paragraphs / posts here).

 

Edited December 5, 2016 by Gibsonm

[Ssnake]

Things that I noticed in the "lessons learned V0.1" video:

If targets appear in the same area as your previous engagement, skip lasing the range. You already have it in your computer, and unlike a new laser result you know that the range is right because you hit a target in the vicinity before.

 

Okay, so with the M1 fire control system entering a range also gets the ballistic computer started with the lead calculation - fair point. But if you fire sabot, it's so fast that you only need to aim for the forward edge of a moving target and you'll hit it (if it's standing still, ongoing lead calculations will only make your aim less accurate unless you have a very steady hand). With HEAT, that's different, of course; here it might make sense to lase again.

Don't forget though, rounds that have an impact fuze will trigger (prematurely) on contact with foliage.

 

Like so many people, you seem to rely too much on the thermal sight. Even if you consider it superior, at least you should search for targets in the widest field of view because even then you're looking at the world through a straw. Per traffic laws you're qualified as "blind" with a 15° field of view (3x magnification), let alone 5° (10x), 2° (25x), not to speak of 1° (50x, which seemed to be your preferred mode).

 

Remember, if your view goes all blurry, your commander just popped smoke. It's no use to stay in your position at that point. Also, in thermal view you sometimes can't see smoke that is blocking your laser. People tend to lase, but rarely register the result. If it reads 0000, lasing again makes no sense whatsoever because the laser can't get through.

 

When changing position, break line of sight completely, and shift your position significantly to the left or to the right. The enemy is aware of your location and expects you to emerge in the general vicinity of it. They will very quickly reacquire you in that case. So, switch positions more often, and switch "decisively". A token movement backwards and then back into more or less the same place only helps to get you killed.

 

Tactical analysis: Look at the map. Notice the river. What does that mean for you?

 

 

 

There is only a single bridge across the river that lets the enemy close with your position. That's an obvious choke point. The enemy will also bring up bridgelayer tanks to create additional points to cross the river. So they are obvious priority targets, just to keep the enemy on the other side of the river. Of course you can shoot targets just when they are on the assault bridge, but if you miss you're in a pickle. Shoot the tank that just got across and which is closing with you, or do you wait for the guy coming after him. Better prevent the bridge deployment in the first place.

[Fincastle]

5 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Tactical analysis: Look at the map. Notice the river. What does that mean for you?

 

Usually this,

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2016 by Fincastle
added missing text

[MDF]

Welcome!

 

Judging by your two videos, I would say that you and your teammate are certainly skilled enough to join in the weekly TGIF game.

 

To add to what others have said, and besides the obligatory "RTFM" statement, I note that eSim will tell you that Chapter 8 is the most important one in the manual.  It tells you about AI behavior on routes and at waypoints.  

 

As far as training missions go, I used to organize a weekly mission a couple of years ago and, frankly, struggled with the notion of how to conduct group training, per se -- i.e., an explicitly pedagogical exercise rather than simply firing up some normal mission and learning by doing.  As someone else mentioned, you could start by looking at the US tank platoon and tank/mech company field manuals, as well as the ARTEP manuals.  The platoon manual describes various battle drills and it probably isn't too difficult to create a mission where your platoon moves along a route and has various encounters requiring execution of one battle drill or another.  Useful tip:  you can set enemy forces to "impotent" (right click on unit, then options ->set status), meaning that they will fire at you but the munitions won't cause damage.

 

Additionally, you could try the "Camp Hornfelt" mission series in the Downloads section here.  I think that actually tracks some of the training tasks in the ARTEP manuals.  Beware that the first mission is easily the hardest.

 

Also, I like the idea of a "lessons learned" video series.  It would probably be best to add a voiceover during the "teachable moments" in the video.  At a minimum, if you are going to simply put the lessons in the video description text, I would also include links to the specific portions of the video relevant to each lesson.

 

Good luck!

Edited December 5, 2016 by MDF

[SovietOnion]

6 hours ago, Ssnake said:

Things that I noticed in the "lessons learned V0.1" video:

If targets appear in the same area as your previous engagement, skip lasing the range. You already have it in your computer, and unlike a new laser result you know that the range is right because you hit a target in the vicinity before.

 

Okay, so with the M1 fire control system entering a range also gets the ballistic computer started with the lead calculation - fair point. But if you fire sabot, it's so fast that you only need to aim for the forward edge of a moving target and you'll hit it (if it's standing still, ongoing lead calculations will only make your aim less accurate unless you have a very steady hand). With HEAT, that's different, of course; here it might make sense to lase again.

Don't forget though, rounds that have an impact fuze will trigger (prematurely) on contact with foliage.

 

Like so many people, you seem to rely too much on the thermal sight. Even if you consider it superior, at least you should search for targets in the widest field of view because even then you're looking at the world through a straw. Per traffic laws you're qualified as "blind" with a 15° field of view (3x magnification), let alone 5° (10x), 2° (25x), not to speak of 1° (50x, which seemed to be your preferred mode).

 

Remember, if your view goes all blurry, your commander just popped smoke. It's no use to stay in your position at that point. Also, in thermal view you sometimes can't see smoke that is blocking your laser. People tend to lase, but rarely register the result. If it reads 0000, lasing again makes no sense whatsoever because the laser can't get through.

 

When changing position, break line of sight completely, and shift your position significantly to the left or to the right. The enemy is aware of your location and expects you to emerge in the general vicinity of it. They will very quickly reacquire you in that case. So, switch positions more often, and switch "decisively". A token movement backwards and then back into more or less the same place only helps to get you killed.

 

Tactical analysis: Look at the map. Notice the river. What does that mean for you?

 

 

 

There is only a single bridge across the river that lets the enemy close with your position. That's an obvious choke point. The enemy will also bring up bridgelayer tanks to create additional points to cross the river. So they are obvious priority targets, just to keep the enemy on the other side of the river. Of course you can shoot targets just when they are on the assault bridge, but if you miss you're in a pickle. Shoot the tank that just got across and which is closing with you, or do you wait for the guy coming after him. Better prevent the bridge deployment in the first place.

 

The only reason I didn't 'shoot and scoot' more aggressively is the mission briefing for that instant action states that the player vehicle is stuck in a minefield. I didn't want to move too much, as I wasn't sure of my clearance left/right. I might be confusing it with another scenario though and unintentionally handicapping myself. 

i agree that I spend too much time in the thermal sight, but I was having a lot of issues with the low-mag day sight due to the high levels of low level fog in that mission. Maybe I just need to get used to it.

 

Also this is just mild complaining, but is the HEAT-MP-T round known for inaccuracy? I swear that I miss way more often with it than with sabot or normal HEAT.

Edited December 5, 2016 by SovietOnion

[Mirzayev]

1 hour ago, SovietOnion said:

Also this is just mild complaining, but is the HEAT-MP-T round known for inaccuracy? I swear that I miss way more often with it than with sabot or normal HEAT.

 

MPAT *should* be more accurate than HEAT due to having a flatter trajectory. If you are indexing the correct round type (End as opposed to Del) it should behave similar to a SABOT.

[SovietOnion]

Yeah, I have the right round indexed. Part of my 'lessons learned' video was figuring out that if the ammo type flashed on the top right it wasn't correct. I just feel as if it's always shooting high.

[Ssnake]

Yes, you ARE stuck in a minefield. So, Yes, your amount of move IS limited.

 

That said, you'll have to take a few risks, sometimes.

You may want to create a number of alternate battlepositions in the planning phase, and save the plan. Over time you could modify the plan, depending on where you find mines, and cut back a little.

[SovietOnion]

When I play that mission there is no planning phase. I get thrown in directly to the mission with about ~20 seconds before enemy units arrive. Am I playing the wrong mission?

[Gibsonm]

No that's why its called "immediate action" / "instant action" or whatever.

 

There is no planning you are just stuck in a small manoeuvre box and need to kill as many of the opposition as you can.

 

Its not really a "learning" tool.

 

The Tutorials and Camp Hornfelt series are better suited to learning. There you are told what to do and are then left to do it.

 

Edited December 5, 2016 by Gibsonm

[Ssnake]

Ugh, yes. I forgot.

[TSe419E]

2 hours ago, SovietOnion said:

When I play that mission there is no planning phase. I get thrown in directly to the mission with about ~20 seconds before enemy units arrive. Am I playing the wrong mission?

 

 

Click on "terrain" just under the "Start" button and it will take you to a map where you do some preplanning of routes.

[Mirzayev]

2 hours ago, Gibsonm said:

The Tutorials and Camp Hornfelt series are better suited to learning. There you are told what to do and are then left to do it.

 

I cannot recommend Camp Hornfelt enough, if you haven't already downloaded it and played the scenarios, do so. 

 

Also, the Gun Runner series is an excellent next step after you are getting pretty good on your chosen vehicle platform at the gunnery range. Just open the files in the mission editor and change your vehicle to whatever you want to use.