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wildbillkelsoe

how to dig a hull down position?

53 posts in this topic

I notice that, even in the same scenario with the same vehicle type, vehicle fighting positions can vary in depth. Am I doing something wrong or is it taking the underlying geology or something else I haven't considered into account?

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Yes there is sometimes an anomaly with the terrain mesh so that a given fighting position may appear shallower than the exact same position placed a few metres away.

 

I can't recall the exact reason or if its consistent but sometimes a position placed on the top of a ridge can be very shallow or just an outline providing limited protection, if any.

 

Usually though adjusting it a few metres restores it to what it should look like / provide the protection it is meant to, with limited detrimental impact on its firing arc.

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7 hours ago, wildbillkelsoe said:

so how is this different from battle position? From reading the manual, a battle position is one where minimum hull is visible to LOS, thus affording protection to the crew in the hull.

 

If someone would be courteous enough to produce a youtube for this I'd really appreciate it.

 

For the types of battle positions? Like the difference between turret and hull down, and between hasty and prepared battle positions?

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GisonM, yes, it always happens for me on gradients (sometimes even quite shallow ones) and moving the position slightly usually works just fine. Thank you.

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On ‎8‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 7:32 AM, Mirzayev said:

 

For the types of battle positions? Like the difference between turret and hull down, and between hasty and prepared battle positions?

 

Yeah. Its very difficult to a newb coming from aircrafts to understand the different types of battle positions. Is there an atlas or an encyclopedia, or a PDF with images of said positions and how to dig them?

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1 minute ago, wildbillkelsoe said:

 

Yeah. Its very difficult to a newb coming from aircrafts to understand the different types of battle positions. Is there an atlas or an encyclopedia, or a PDF with images of said positions and how to dig them?

 

I don't know about how to dig them in real life, since that is in the realm of engineers.

 

For Steel Beasts, you put them in using the mission editor. 

 

As for what these positions generally should provide for cover, here is a basic illustration: FM17-15_fig_4-5.gif

 

I'll make a YouTube video on the fighting positions in Steel Beasts if you still want one. 

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Just now, Mirzayev said:

 

I don't know about how to dig them in real life, since that is in the realm of engineers.

 

For Steel Beasts, you put them in using the mission editor. 

 

As for what these positions generally should provide for cover, here is a basic illustration: FM17-15_fig_4-5.gif

 

I'll make a YouTube video on the fighting positions in Steel Beasts if you still want one. 

I'm sorry I was not explicit enough. I was asking how do you dig them in SB. Perhaps its time for the popcorn. Also, can you send me the scenario entitled "Air-Assault.sce" which comes with the stock because I seem to have accidentally erased mine and its a huge emphasis on the 1A1 which is my favourite tank in SB so far. 

 

If I understand the hasty type, you use the LOS tool via LAlt and drag to a suspected enemy position, if its black there is no LOS and I can move there. The battle position is one where you are almost fully covered and can fire with impunity on exposed enemies. This "on the fly" position is the one sought by driver by hitting E with presence of appropriate ducking ground or shall we call it a burrow up ahead between you and the enemy. The planned one is where you designate a patchland as deep. I dont know how to do this. Be it a 6x5 meter vehicle sized burrow or a dug out trench. 

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Place them in the mission editor (right-click... New Emplacement... select vehicle type; later you may right-click the emplacement symbol and pick details about the type and camouflage options). There is currently no method to dig them at runtime.

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I accidentally discovered that vehicle fighting positions can make highly effective vehicle traps. In one scenario two enemy BMP-2s ended up sharing a position, propped up at jaunty angles, with a still live but immobilised and de-fanged Leo2A4.

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, wildbillkelsoe said:

 can fire with impunity on exposed enemies.

 

"impunity"? non existent.

 

A direct fire weapon means you can see him to shoot him and therefore he can shoot you.

 

If he can shoot you there is a chance you'll get hit. Get hit and there's a chance your vehicle will be damaged / destroyed.

 

Given when you posted this, come along on Thursday and we can cover this as part of the BG ANZAC session for you if you like?

 

Edited by Gibsonm

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3 hours ago, Gibsonm said:

 

"impunity"? non existent.

 

A direct fire weapon means you can see him to shoot him and therefore he can shoot you.

 

If he can shoot you there is a chance you'll get hit. Get hit and there's a chance your vehicle will be damaged / destroyed.

 

Given when you posted this, come along on Thursday and we can cover this as part of the BG ANZAC session for you if you like?

 

Gibsonm, dont take my words literally. Yes you're 100% correct as long as I see them they can see me. Its LOS afterall. Sure I'd love to join BG but not sure if my ping would allow it, as I'm in Egypt. Don't want to stutter the sim for you guys. 

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So after playing around Air-Assault.sce today, I have a few questions.

 

First, a medically marked unit should not be engaged by enemy. Is there a way to prevent AI from firing on said unit, unless being used to shield a regular?

 

Second, for disabled tanks not destroyed, player controlled, can they be towed without tracks or do I need to park supplies and fuel next to them to initiate repair, or is it unlinked at all to said logistics?

 

 

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The AI normally ignores medic units, but it doesn't go out of it's way to NOT hit them with either direct or indirect fire, so if they're caught up in a battle it's possible they could get hit by accident. As for towing, vehicles can tow another vehicle of a similar mass or lighter. Some repairs can only be performed in the presence of a repair vehicle, but repair vehicles don't otherwise speed repairs. For example, a tracked tank will repair at the same rate left to it's own (and not under attack) vs having a repair vehicle nearby. However, that only applies to "natural" repairs that happen automatically over time; One can also repair vehicles via scripting in the mission design, which can be set to repair only when in a certain area along with repair vehicles, for instance.

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, wildbillkelsoe said:

Gibsonm, dont take my words literally. Yes you're 100% correct as long as I see them they can see me. Its LOS afterall. Sure I'd love to join BG but not sure if my ping would allow it, as I'm in Egypt. Don't want to stutter the sim for you guys. 

 

I'm sorry but as this forum relies on what you type, how else am I meant to take your words?

 

If you write "black" am I supposed to assume "blue"?

 

As for ping well we have people from the UK, various parts of Europe, even people using 4G mobile phone hotspots in Thailand. Worse case, turn up, we talk about the topic, you go.

 

Edited by Gibsonm

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ok how about repairs. I cant find anything in the manual about them. What happens when you lose your LRF without a timer or countdown? Is the damage cumulative or the system is zeroed back to pre damaged state after the repairs?

 

Certainly new to me that a tank would lose its track and be able to repair it on its own. So what do I do, find a burrow and shut my engine down?

 

Lastly, the hit markers on models are green, red, or blue, what do these mean? 

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Some damage can only be repaired when near a repair vehicle, like the LRF, thermal imager, and engine, to name a few examples. The crew will repair a damaged track in 30 minutes assuming they're not distracted by enemies. Tow the vehicle to a safe location out of line of sight of the enemy and they should get it fixed up. As far as I know, the only parts that can't be repaired (other than via scripting) are fuel and coolant leaks, main gun, and ammo storage.

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The different colours of "hit markers"(I assume you mean in the AAR) indicate different types of ammunitions:

 

Green: ATGM

Red: kinetic engergy rounds

Orange: HEAT rounds

Yellow: HE rounds

Blue: AT weapons (RPG)

 

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ok, how about the binocular view. I am playing in full realism, yet as I hold shift, there is a red hedgehog that appears with the command to mark position. I bet this is for unrealistic gameplay. 

 

My question is, if youre facing a specific area, and you spot a target with binos considering youre higher in the unbuttoned position, can you order the gunner to slew the gun to that position? even if he does not have a direct LOS to the target?

 

Another thing is, how to return the gunner to search mode with the arc and tadpole so that he starts scanning the assigned tactics/RoE area. Alot of the times I find that the gunner might be stuck on old direction arc and even as I hit F5 and swivel arc to behind us, they still scan forward.

 

Lastly, how to have the gunner scan behind I dont think there is a command, and what is the observe command with unit right clicked menu selected "observe here"?

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7 hours ago, wildbillkelsoe said:

ok, how about the binocular view. I am playing in full realism, yet as I hold shift, there is a red hedgehog that appears with the command to mark position. I bet this is for unrealistic gameplay. 

 

So, this has three functions:

 

1. If you encounter an enemy that the AI has not spotted, you can hold shift and then right click. You are simulating giving an alert to your crew, sending a SPOT Report, etc. The enemy will appear on the map and your other AI units will begin scanning for them.

 

2. Based on your settings, you can use this to determine the callsign/bumper number of the friendly unit you are observing. I do this all the time in multiplayer to maintain situational awareness.

 

3. Finally, based on your realism settings, you can use this to mark a position that you are observing on the map. In the map view, the area observed is marked with the same red crosshair as used in the 3D view. I do this in multiplayer sessions as well. Some might argue this is unrealistic, but there are plenty of binocular-like pieces of equipment that are capable of giving you a grid coordinate in real life. The Vector 21 immediately comes to mind, and even with a civilian Bushnell Elite 1 Mile CONX you could quickly do the same using a map and protractor. 

 

So yeah, this is one of the most versatile and useful features in Steel Beasts that is often a great unknown for new players. :D

 

For slewing the gun to a target in binos, your best bet is giving your gunner a scan command by using shift and the corresponding arrow key. You can also try using P and slewing it manually, but this takes some practice and probably does more harm than good. If you have identified the target by using shift and right click, the gunner will usually spot him pretty quickly.

 

Your gunner will not scan behind your vehicle with a command. There are numerous technical and tactical reasons for this being impractical (the tank cannot properly depress its gun, you will be firing in the direction of friendly troops, etc). Bottom line: if the enemy is behind you, than they have already gained a major tactical advantage, and you are probably going to lose. 

Edited by Mirzayev

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ok how about the loader station? shouldnt there be animation for the case ejection and the loader opening (safing) the breech, opening ammo rack, pulling out the fresh round, loading and pushing it into the chamber, then lifting breech up then locking safety to the up position? or preferably interaction from loader station?

 

Also, are there Sherman tanks or Tiger and Panzer tanks in the sim or as additional vehicle?

 

Lastly, which part of binocular crosshair is considered the center of the screen and how is it used? how is it mil divided for rangefinding? 

 

What is the use of GPS blast door controls? Do position occupants automatically duck inside turret if the tank is under fire from an unbuttoned position? I sometimes hear the hatch close especially under fire. 

 

The manual states that GAS is used to check if the gun barrel has a clear LOS or actually clearing an obstruction immediately forward of it, how is this depicted?

 

 

One last thing. If a target I spotted is to my 9 o'clock and the gunner is facing forward, if I want him to auto identify a target which is at 11 o'clock while I shift GPSE to 2 o'clock, does pressing shift and left arrow make him auto target the first encountered target azimuth wise from 12 to 9 front to hard left or will he just first slew turret hard left to hull, then start a scan and pick the one he thinks is imminent danger? Can I prioritise his targeting meaning if there are trucks and tanks, can I order him to target only tanks while I use the turret mounted snoring pig on top on said trucks? 

I think I will move to the mission Tanks again! in order to sharpen my skills.

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Why are you asking about a loader's position in a thread called "how to dig a hull down position?"?

 

How about one question per thread, not 27?

 

No there are no Shermans, Tigers or other "Panzers" (apart from the Leo 1 and 2 variants).

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