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Red2112

Cold Waters

59 posts in this topic

Seems like good news for CW with the realism mod!  See changes in the video discription and/or watch video.  Mod link (Subsim) in the video discription...

 

 

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I beat the 1984 campaign last night with the USS Narwhal. The last battle against a Typhoon-class submarine was intense, and required two torpedos to send the beast limping to the surface before accepting it's fate in a watery grave. After killing my main target, I focused on the two Sierras serving as escorts, and engaged in the familiar game of fire and counter-fire. 

 

Without spoiling the actual campaign ending, I did think it was a bit anti-climactic. I anticipated having an amphibious invasion to open a second front and forcing the USSR to the negotiating table on NATO-favorable terms to be in the cards. Still, my tired but victorious crew pulled back into port to a hero's welcome, so I am satisfied with the outcome.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Mirzayev said:

I beat the 1984 campaign last night with the USS Narwhal. The last battle against a Typhoon-class submarine was intense, and required two torpedos to send the beast limping to the surface before accepting it's fate in a watery grave. After killing my main target, I focused on the two Sierras serving as escorts, and engaged in the familiar game of fire and counter-fire. 

 

Without spoiling the actual campaign ending, I did think it was a bit anti-climactic. I anticipated having an amphibious invasion to open a second front and forcing the USSR to the negotiating table on NATO-favorable terms to be in the cards. Still, my tired but victorious crew pulled back into port to a hero's welcome, so I am satisfied with the outcome.

 

Thanks Mirzayev!  Some underwater pics would help with the heat wave here in Spain!  I have "Atlantic Fleet" which sort of dose the trick, you kind of want to jump offboard into the cold sea to cool off :P

 

Would you say that Cold Waters has replay value?  Or would you replay the same campaign again?

 

Don´t want to open another thread, although we could have a "wargames" thread B|  Here´s a cool mini game and free (Prosim/Armchair General) "March to Baghdad Episode one"...

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/marchtobaghdad

 

Works just fine on W10, just don´t use the "Spot Report Log" option as it lags.  Same engine is used on Battle Group Commander Episode One: BGC Espisode One and AATF (Air Assault Task Force).

 

5985fbe7bb183_MarchtoBaghdad.thumb.jpg.75a17e13c361bc9a6ec623bfc05e235c.jpg

 

Care,

 

Red

Edited by Red2112
added MtBE1

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Red2112 said:

Would you say that Cold Waters has replay value?  Or would you replay the same campaign again?

 

Absolutely to both! Different submarines require different tactics. The Narwhal is slow and stealthy with good sonar, so I spent almost of the entirety of the campaign hanging out in the shadow zone on silent running, popping out only to engage targets before vanishing from their sonar. I am going to try my hand at the Skipjack next. It is very fast and agile, but is about as quiet as a freight train. :D 

 

That being said, some missions in the Campaign were more enjoyable than others. Land Strikes using TLAM Missiles were quite a let down, since you just pull up to a Soviet Port, fire about 8-12 missiles at a target, and then leave the AO. The majority of the mission was spent reloading for a second salvo... Also, after playing for a while you can figure out some ways to "game" the system. Firing a MK48 Torpedo with active homing in the general direction of the enemy almost always guarantees a kill at 20 KYD or less, meaning that you can kill targets with a firing solution of about 30% pretty reliably. At some points, I had fired all four tubes at different targets, with every torpedo getting a kill! 

 

I haven't beaten the 1968 Campaign, but it is significantly harder due to almost everything being able to outrun your wire-guided torpedoes. The 1984 Campaign is a good place to start, but the 1968 Campaign really test your skills. I'll be playing that one next, and will give some feedback. 

 

Edit: Also, a screenshot just for fun comparing the size difference between the Skipjack and the Typhoon. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1101477649 

 

Edit 2: A random shot that I had on my hard drive. It actually turned out quite nice: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1101487332

Edited by Mirzayev

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Best moment for me with cold waters so far was wiping it off my HDD.

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So:

 

As I read the posts, then most players Are mostly happy with the game?

 

And it seems that replay and bugs are sorted as well?

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3 hours ago, Nike-Ajax said:

So:

 

As I read the posts, then most players Are mostly happy with the game?

 

And it seems that replay and bugs are sorted as well?

 

I am satisfied with it for sure! That being said, just realize that Cold Waters is more arcade than simulation. I think a sizable portion of the purchasing crowd at launch expected an in-depth simulator, and were dissapointed with the results.

 

The replay value with the campaigns is good so far. From doing some reading, I think the developers extended the campaign length a bit. My Narwhal campaign lasted about 15 days in game, which translated to about 9-10 hours of real time play. This was with me and the crew being successful every mission; you could purposely extend the campaign by "forgetting" to read your orders and taking an extended shore leave at Holy Loch.

 

I've played a few missions in a second 1984 campaign with the Skipjack, and some of the events of the war have changed (the USSR deciding to invade Sweden as opposed to rolling over Western Europe) and my mission sets are focused on ASW, particularly against diesel submarines. With the Narwhal, I was primarily used to destroy surface groups. The play style is very different as well. The Skipjack doesn't have great sonar systems, so I often end up making tons of noise to force the enemy to reveal their positions by firing a torpedo at me. Once they fire, I shoot a active homing torpedo at their position before going evasive. The Skipjack in deep water will never get hit by an enemy torpedo; it is super fast, super maneuverable, and can form knuckles at will. So yeah, quite a different experience from the silent and hi-tech Narwhal. :)

 

I have encountered two bugs so far. The first didn't allow me to play two pre-built missions, which was solved by verifying the game cache via Steam. The second was during a port strike at Murmansk. The game takes a performance hit while compressing time, and apparently if you sink any ships then your missile strike will register as a failure. I know this is being worked on by the Developers. For what its worth, I also think that the Port Strike missions are boring; you fire a set number of missiles at a designated target and leave.

 

There are a few things that I would like to see in the game:

 

1. An official Soviet Campaign. This one is a common request, and will probably be the first DLC released.

 

2. A mission editor so you can create your own single-player missions.

 

3. The addition of more subs from different nationalities; UK, France, etc.

 

Fortunately, SubSim has a LOT of mods that can serve as a stopgap in the meantime, including new submarines and new campaigns.

 

 

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Thanks for your Insight Mirzayev, very helpful!

 

Yes I also agree that alot of folks expected this to be something else, I also stated this from the begining in the original post.

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On 8/6/2017 at 0:59 AM, DarkAngel said:

Best moment for me with cold waters so far was wiping it off my HDD.

 

I recall you had the same opinion on Dangerous Waters.  Is there a sub game that you actually liked? 

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On 8/6/2017 at 9:34 AM, Mirzayev said:

I've played a few missions in a second 1984 campaign with the Skipjack, and some of the events of the war have changed (the USSR deciding to invade Sweden as opposed to rolling over Western Europe) and my mission sets are focused on ASW, particularly against diesel submarines. With the Narwhal, I was primarily used to destroy surface groups. The play style is very different as well. The Skipjack doesn't have great sonar systems, so I often end up making tons of noise to force the enemy to reveal their positions by firing a torpedo at me. Once they fire, I shoot a active homing torpedo at their position before going evasive. The Skipjack in deep water will never get hit by an enemy torpedo; it is super fast, super maneuverable, and can form knuckles at will. So yeah, quite a different experience from the silent and hi-tech Narwhal. :)

 

Use torps as bird dogs.  Set them to the slowest speed, dog leg your shot and have them approach an area from a different bearing.  This should get you the same results with less risk.  Also consider using active sonar.  It only gives them a bearing while you get their exact location. 

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55 minutes ago, Homer said:

Also consider using active sonar.  It only gives them a bearing while you get their exact location. 

 

I use this often. The above is for when I absolutely cannot locate any contacts using regular means with the Skipjack. Diesel submarines often fit this description.

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2 hours ago, Homer said:

 

I recall you had the same opinion on Dangerous Waters.  Is there a sub game that you actually liked? 

Not I as I still have it installed.

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9 hours ago, Mirzayev said:

 

I use this often. The above is for when I absolutely cannot locate any contacts using regular means with the Skipjack. Diesel submarines often fit this description.

 

Sprint and drift is another viable search tactic.  Subs of the Skipjack era used mainly high and medium freq sonar arrays which have detection ranges from 4000 to 10000 yards.  6000 yard sprints (flank speed for 6 mins) followed by all stop and drift to shallow using positive buoyancy would be a good starting point (Six minute rule:  yard distance travel in 6 mins = speed x 200).  Diesel subs are most dangerous only after they reached their patrol area.  If you can catch them in transit to their patrol area, they should be snorkeling and making a lot of noise.  Remember they have sonar that is crappier than yours.

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7 hours ago, DarkAngel said:

Not I as I still have it installed.

 

I guess it was someone else.  I avoided the game for a long time because I took his opinion to heart.

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Last dive with Homer which was a knife fight, and I think RDML LaBolla was there too, and some others that I can´t remember now, Homer sunk my sub at +10 ROE with actives out of no where at a couple of hundred yards to my sub!  Never even saw his sub on sonar to start with!  Beware of this gentelmen and his know how of ASW!

 

That was with Jane´s 688i H/K with no 3D view BTW.  That was quite some years ago too...

 

Sir <S> :)

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16 hours ago, Red2112 said:

 

That was with Jane´s 688i H/K with no 3D view BTW.  That was quite some years ago too...

 

 

Hach, those memories. If I only could find my copy of DW...

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1 hour ago, Canadus said:

 

Hach, those memories. If I only could find my copy of DW...

 

Well, DW is on sale alot of times over at Steam and other web sites, so you could always pick up a copy if you like. Mine is from Steam and I use the RA mod.  I still have my CD copy of 688i but the CD won´t run on new systems so I had to buy the Steam version.  You can get all three version (688i, Sub Command and Dangerous Waters) on Steam, they even put the whole bundle on sale sometimes for very cheap (€5)

 

http://store.steampowered.com/app/1600/Dangerous_Waters/?

 

 

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Version 1.07b Beta Available

 

http://steamcommunity.com/app/541210/discussions/0/2183537632740192385/

 

Finally new controls !! B|

 

Quote

New combat GUI Features:
New tabs for Helm, Dive and Sensors toolbars
Set speed to individual knot value
Direct telegraph
Plot course via map way point
Move submarine to depth in 50 ft increments
Move submarine to periscope depth
Emergency Deep - sets planes/ballast to max down and flank speed
Redesigned ESM meter
Masts toolbar added which appears once periscope or ESM mast is raised
Fully expanded and scrolling message log

 

 

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On 8/8/2017 at 9:59 PM, Homer said:

If you can catch them in transit to their patrol area, they should be snorkeling and making a lot of noise.  Remember they have sonar that is crappier than yours.

 

Well, they won't be snorkeling constantly, although they will probably be coming up to snort frequently, maybe multiple times per day.

The thing is a cagey skipper can do stuff like decide to stop snorkeling and quickly take a listen around at random.

 

Diesel subs are really dangerous unless you know where they are.  Then they're too slow to run...

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always thought torpedoes were contact explosives.cool vid.they are devastating.

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Original torpedos were, but it turned out that the repeated stress of kicking the hull up with the initial shockwave, then have it crash down, then to kick it up once more with the gas bubble, and finally have it crash down even deeper into the water cavity created by the gas bubble is so much more devastating than to simply blow a hole into the side, even if it is below the waterline. Compartmentalization make warships pretty resistant against such damages (see the recent collision results of US warships, also the USS Cole incident).

 

Cracking the entire ship in half, however, is a damage it can't survive. The longer and bigger ships are, the more vulnerable they are to these bending stress events, but a big ship must be long in order to be seaworthy and sumewhat fuel efficient. So, there's no easy design concept against this kind of attack. Of course, it's still best not to get hit in the first place.

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+ the collapse of the cavity will create a water jet, that tries to go up with roughly the speed of sound....and the ship is in the way

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Many thanks to Red, Grenny and others for putting Cold Waters on my radar (sonar?).  I have been playing it for few weeks now, and exploring the very good range of mods and DLC that have been created but the community.

Very enjoyable game, with a very different pace to SB. No option for any kind of MP play at the moment, but it would be interesting to split the various tasks eg: Nav/Helm, Command/Sonar, Weapons/Decoys. Something along the lines of driver, TC and gunner in SB. Some would be happy with head to head attack-sub duels too. Currently the latest beta is proving a tad tricky, but the previous release is solid.

Definately one to watch as the AI and DLC develops.

cheers

Trackpin

 

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