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Tank Battle near Willingen close to Soltau 18 September 1987


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1 hour ago, Mirzayev said:

 

I generally position the supply trucks one terrain feature away from the FLOT in a concealed position. I try to keep this under 1km to keep the driving time down.

B|

 

Reason I ask is the M1 takes foooooooooorever to reload from semi ready rack, supply truck is quicker.

Edited by Hedgehog
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Higher CO have been forced to return the GE unit to its parent BTN due to heavy losses.

 

Task org changed.

 

Plz check and if youy want another seat leat me know

 

So still room for :

FO

COY CO (I can FO or COY CO so let me know if you want either spot)

1x XO TNK

1x MECH PLT

1x TNK PLT

 

 

Edited by Swordsmandk
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9 minutes ago, TSe419E said:

Remember, it's a training simulator and they are most likely doing it by the book and not using any battlefield expedient measures.

I meant that it is completely unrealistic to move ammunition trucks up to the battle line.

 

or at least that it is a tactic I have never heard of before.

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2 hours ago, Nike-Ajax said:

I meant that it is completely unrealistic to move ammunition trucks up to the battle line.

 

or at least that it is a tactic I have never heard of before.

 

This really depends on the situation, and I have seen it done before. 

 

Generally, the safer method is to pull your vehicles off of their BPs, and have them drive back to the LRP. We refer to this in the US as "service station."

 

The second method is to push logistics directly to the vehicles at their BPs. This is riskier, due to increased threat to the logistics vehicles, and the increased risk of revealing your position to the enemy. We call this "tailgating."

 

Now, even with tailgating, the supply trucks will not drive right up to a BP and park directly next to the AFV. The AFV will still have to pull out of the BP and drive to the logistics vehicles, however this distance is significantly shorter than moving all the way back to an LRP. That being said, tailgating usually ends up taking more time than doing the service station method, as your logistics vehicles have to move into an unfamiliar area they have never seen before, and set up to distribute fuel, ammo, etc.

 

Also, it is worth mentioning that tailgating is only employed when a unit is not in current contact with the enemy. Driving a fuel truck to the FLOT during a direct fire engagement is suicidal, and logistics vehicles are the equivalent of magnets for attracting indirect fire. 

 

Overall, using the service station method is faster, and safer.

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2 hours ago, TSe419E said:

The only reference I have is FM 17-95.  It indicates that troop (company) level supply and maintenance trucks would usually be one or two terrain features to the rear of the troop.  So maybe it's not so unrealistic.

 

Except that wasnt what was described at all. There is a pretty significant and obvious difference between having the supply trucks one to two terrain features behind the BP´s - which I agree with.

 

And to do what was described above, which was basically to drive the unarmored and unarmed supplytrucks right up to the tanks in the BP ´s to reload because its faster than movinf rounds from the Tank stores to the ready rack.

 

Never ever done in combat that I have heard of.

Edited by Nike-Ajax
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7 hours ago, Mirzayev said:

 

I generally position the supply trucks one terrain feature away from the FLOT in a concealed position. I try to keep this under 1km to keep the driving time down.

 

2 hours ago, TSe419E said:

The only reference I have is FM 17-95.  It indicates that troop (company) level supply and maintenance trucks would usually be one or two terrain features to the rear of the troop.  So maybe it's not so unrealistic.

2 minutes ago, Nike-Ajax said:

 

Except that wasnt what was described at all. There is a pretty significant and obvious difference between having the supply trucks one to two terrain features behind the BP´s - which I agree with.

 

 

It wasn't?

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7 hours ago, Hedgehog said:

Also please may we plan to have the Supply trucks in reasonable reach and not at the back of the column?

6 hours ago, Hedgehog said:

"Reason I ask is the M1 takes foooooooooorever to reload from semi ready rack, supply truck is quicker.?"

 

 

THESE are the ones I was addressing before - not you, methinks we are talking past each other ?

Edited by Nike-Ajax
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16 hours ago, Mirzayev said:

This really depends on the situation, and I have seen it done before. 

 

Generally, the safer method is to pull your vehicles off of their BPs, and have them drive back to the LRP. We refer to this in the US as "service station."

 

The second method is to push logistics directly to the vehicles at their BPs. This is riskier, due to increased threat to the logistics vehicles, and the increased risk of revealing your position to the enemy. We call this "tailgating."

 

Now, even with tailgating, the supply trucks will not drive right up to a BP and park directly next to the AFV. The AFV will still have to pull out of the BP and drive to the logistics vehicles, however this distance is significantly shorter than moving all the way back to an LRP. That being said, tailgating usually ends up taking more time than doing the service station method, as your logistics vehicles have to move into an unfamiliar area they have never seen before, and set up to distribute fuel, ammo, etc.

 

Also, it is worth mentioning that tailgating is only employed when a unit is not in current contact with the enemy. Driving a fuel truck to the FLOT during a direct fire engagement is suicidal, and logistics vehicles are the equivalent of magnets for attracting indirect fire. 

 

Overall, using the service station method is faster, and safer.

 

Service Station method, please.

 

Also, why is everyone jumping all over my request?!

Believe I said:

23 hours ago, Hedgehog said:

Also please may we plan to have the Supply trucks in reasonable reach and not at the back of the column?

Please note: "reasonable reach"

 

Did I say "Please park the trucks next to my Tank" ?

No.

 

The reason I ask about the trucks is the 105mm has a friggin' automatic cannon ROF compared to the 120mm

And the rate I use ammo (Hey, I'm not paying for it. :D ) its quicker for me to nip back a click or two.

The supply trucks reload straight into the ready rack, on par with the Leopard's reload rate from semi ready

 

So with the M1IP and an approximate / terrain dependent 2000m seperation to a "service station" the M1IP is fast enough to nip back and do a quick bomb up.

Rather than sit there faffing around opening and closing ready / semi ready doors and this "One round in the turret" bollocks

 

Think I could reasonably call this a

20 hours ago, TSe419E said:

battlefield expedient measure

 

(And I think this is standard US doctrine of the time, I could be wrong though)

 

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Since the M1IP is not a commonly used tank, I thought it helpful to provide a scenario that will allow anyone interested to practice gunnery techniques from a stationary position, while maneuvering, or a combination of both. A special thanks goes out to @Gunslinger668, who allowed the modification and use of his Battle Run scenario. 

 

While destroying enemy AFVs with impunity, be sure to observe the faster reload time of the M1IP versus the M1A1. Factor this into your planning for direct fire engagements; you may run out of ammo in less time than you expect. 

Battle Run (M1IP Modified).sce

Edited by Mirzayev
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2 hours ago, Mirzayev said:

Since the M1IP is not a commonly used tank, I thought it helpful to provide a scenario that will allow anyone interested to practice gunnery techniques from a stationary position, while maneuvering, or a combination of both. A special thanks goes out to @Gunslinger668, who allowed the modification and use of his Battle Run scenario. 

 

While destroying enemy AFVs with impunity, be sure to observe the faster reload time of the M1IP versus the M1A1. Factor this into your planning for direct fire engagements; you may run out of ammo in less time than you expect. 

Battle Run (M1IP Modified).sce

 

Many thanks to the both of you. I had never heard of the M1IP before, so this hits the spot very nicely.

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