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Gibsonm

Latest Press Release

30 posts in this topic

Guys,

 

Great news on the new demonstrator.

 

Perhaps the CBRND aspects will filter through (couldn't resist) to SB Pro PE in due course.

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To me, this is more of a starting point for development, rather than the end of it. While I don't see a direct application case for the Personal Edition, who knows what will come from it. :)

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Radioactive zones!!  Biologically contaminated villages!!!  Dare I type that which should not be typed.......steelbeasts, zombie edition 😝

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I am pleased to see that CBRN is getting some much needed love. :) Reacting to Chemical, Biological, and Radiological threats is somewhat of a lost science, but is something that you definitely do not want to be doing for the first time in a real life situation. 

 

Perhaps if this does make it to Pro PE, I can make a modern variant of Winter Shield. One can always dream... B|

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1 hour ago, Mirzayev said:

Perhaps if this does make it to Pro PE, I can make a modern variant of Winter Shield. One can always dream... B|

 

Yes, we tried to approximate it in the last Rolling Thunder event but it was a bit clunky.

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Well guys, keep in mind that in order to work, this still requires a third party simulation product to generate the threat itself. At the moment SB Pro merely displays the contamination iso lines as a proof that the feedback works, and that "the Steel Beasts weather" can make the plume shift its shape and location.

 

Before this could materialize in SB Pro PE, if at all, it would still take significant further development.

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47 minutes ago, Ssnake said:

Well guys, keep in mind that in order to work, this still requires a third party simulation product to generate the threat itself. At the moment SB Pro merely displays the contamination iso lines as a proof that the feedback works, and that "the Steel Beasts weather" can make the plume shift its shape and location.

 

Before this could materialize in SB Pro PE, if at all, it would still take significant further development.

 

Fully noted, but the fact that these two completely independently developed systems can communicate with each other is quite impressive, and brings out the excitable nerd within me. :D

 

Also, I think that the added addition of CBRN within the simulator makes Steel Beasts Pro stand out from the competition. I have never seen the use of chemical munitions and their effects modeled in CCTT, RVTT, DSTS, or VBS3, other than via a radio prompt ("That smoke screen is actually a chemical munition, put on your mask!") I cannot speak for JCATS, since my experience with it is limited. 

 

Overall, very exciting news, even if it is confined purely to the Professional edition!

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What is the R for? I assume Radiation but isn't that covered by the N (Nuclear)?.

 

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Radiological. Sorta overlaps with nuclear, but nuclear is more specific to nuclear weapon fallout while radiological means more like someone blew up an IED that was mixed with caesium-137, for example.

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Nuclear includes all the effects of explosions - pressure wave, heat radiation/fires, widespread destruction. Also note that I think that only "C" and "R" actually apply for (military) tactical training. I don't know if there's any simulations that deal with biological hazards to the extent that they will actually spread throughout the population, with incubation times and tracking the individual contagious persons. You'd need some sort of world simulation to cover travel habits, and have thousands if not millions of persistent software agents that keep up patterns of life for days if not weeks. I'm sure the CDC does things like that for "regular" outbreaks of pandemics (save for the tracking of individual agents), but there seems to be little that you could reasonably train in a military/tactical context other than maybe trying to get a handle on a situation that involves mass casualties where you have insufficient means for treatment etc.

Simulating nuclear in a virtual simulation is also probably something that's very hard to do, simply because of the widespread damage that occurs nearly instantaneously. Tracking, for example, the damage state of individual buildings can already be a challenge. Doing so for thousands of buildings near ground zero plus the simultaneous simulation of a forest fire, etc. ... "interesting", but out of scope for what Steel Beasts attempts to do.

 

 

That Steel Beasts can exchange information with other simulation systems is actually nothing new (as a glance at our partners page would reveal), like this:

 

 

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While I don't see an application for Biological effects in Pro PE, I would say that Cold War scenarios need both Chemical, and, to a lesser extent, Nuclear effects to make truly complete cold-war what-ifs possible.

 

I'd pick Chem over Nuke if I had to pick, since "Nuke" means lots of dead dudes RFN, so, game over man game over, while chemical changes how the fight is going to happen...But with modern CBRN filtration on vehicles, masks, etc, there IS probably still gonna be a ground fight.

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@Mirzayev

Both VBS3 and JCATS plays with chemical agents (Sarin and Teargas) and you can have different MOPP levels.

In VBS3 you have both Chemical Detection Paper M9 and Gas Detection Unit M22.

In JCATS you can model your own sensors.

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3 hours ago, EAGLE1DK said:

@Mirzayev

Both VBS3 and JCATS plays with chemical agents (Sarin and Teargas) and you can have different MOPP levels.

In VBS3 you have both Chemical Detection Paper M9 and Gas Detection Unit M22.

In JCATS you can model your own sensors.

 

Cool man, thanks for sharing! 

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Posted (edited)

11 hours ago, Maj.Hans said:

 

 

I'd pick Chem over Nuke if I had to pick, since "Nuke" means lots of dead dudes RFN, so, game over man game over, while chemical changes how the fight is going to happen...But with modern CBRN filtration on vehicles, masks, etc, there IS probably still gonna be a ground fight.

 

 adjustable yield tactical nuclear weapons are not only becoming more practical but are perceived to fill the gap somewhere between conventional and full scale nuclear war to clean up battlefields, there is speculation that even the united states may resort to first use under select conditions; in other words, the very fact that nations are continuing to develop and upgrade them indicates either a willingness to use them or a belief that they are going to be relevant- forces on either side would have to deal with operating even nearby their own weapons going off, at least in theory.

 

however i think because doing the full suite of their so called benefits justice (flash impulse blinding anyone who happens to be looking at it, emp, and so on) from an electronic simulation standpoint would imply a lot of technical hurdles to work out, and so simulating chemical rounds could be done more accurately and easier if you had to concentrate how to spend limited resources. but if the idea is to create an obstacle to maneuver around without the need for all that, just as well.

Edited by Captain_Colossus

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1 hour ago, dpabrams said:

Will there be MRE farts in the fighting compartment?

 

Doesn't matter at MOPP 3 or 4. ;)

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17 minutes ago, Gibsonm said:

 

Doesn't matter at MOPP 3 or 4. ;)

We call farting in your suit a "Dutch Oven".

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a dutch oven is when you hot box your girlfriend, that is, you tell her there is a present waiting for her under the sheets. sure. then when she goes to check you hold the blankets down and...

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8 hours ago, Captain_Colossus said:

 

 adjustable yield tactical nuclear weapons are not only becoming more practical but are perceived to fill the gap somewhere between conventional and full scale nuclear war to clean up battlefields, there is speculation that even the united states may resort to first use under select conditions; in other words, the very fact that nations are continuing to develop and upgrade them indicates either a willingness to use them or a belief that they are going to be relevant- forces on either side would have to deal with operating even nearby their own weapons going off, at least in theory.

 

however i think because doing the full suite of their so called benefits justice (flash impulse blinding anyone who happens to be looking at it, emp, and so on) from an electronic simulation standpoint would imply a lot of technical hurdles to work out, and so simulating chemical rounds could be done more accurately and easier if you had to concentrate how to spend limited resources. but if the idea is to create an obstacle to maneuver around without the need for all that, just as well.

 

 

The way I'm looking at it is that it might be one thing for someone to throw some chemical weapons around, but it's another to whip out the nukes.

 

We've used chemical weapons before.  Used them quite widely in WW1, various dictators world wide have used them against various enemies including their own people, and I recall reading that some chemical weapons were actually used on a small scale in isolated incidents throughout WW2.  I can see some commander, American, Russian, British, whatever, deciding that since WW3 has just kicked off, he too can get away with slimeing someone with some chemicals.

 

Nuclear weapons were used twice, and only twice, against the last remaining enemy in a long and bloody world war, an enemy who was seen as being fanatical, suicidal, and quite alien in language and culture to the main belligerents among the allies.  And that was also a time when nobody else HAD nuclear weapons to respond with.

 

I'm not sure if they would or would not be used.  I do know that I would not want to be the first person to have to push the nuclear button, and then have to wait and see what response there is...

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but only one side had them in the case of japan. now that other states have developed them or appear to be developing them, that entails a different algorithm, in other words, both sides have them and are in a game of poker against one another, one side (mis) calculates when it perceives the other side triggers certain apparent conditions and goes ahead and pulls the trigger- similar to the overall situation in north korea, that will kick off when one side plays its hand a little too much, and the other freaks out first and says 'ok, if it's going to happen anyway, at least we'll preempt them first.' now in this case i'm emphasizing tactical nuclear weapons more than strategic icbms and this sort of thing.

 

russia some years ago said it reserved the right to use nuclear weapons first

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/11/04/world/russia-drops-pledge-of-no-first-use-of-atom-arms.html

 

even if this is just a bluff, they still want you to think that they are capable of using them first, they want to keep you guessing, of course- they want you to think they are  capable of doing it. this puts you in the position of guessing when they may or may not. if you knew for sure they were off the table, that would solve a lot of dilemmas and you know you have a stronger hand to play with your conventional forces. if you knew definitely that they would shoot first, then you might just shoot first at the mere whiff of a serious provocation. but as long as you're unsure, you're more constrained. so you can see it's still a game of high stakes poker and who blinks first or whatever metaphor seems appropriate.

 

 

 

Edited by Captain_Colossus

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On 9/1/2017 at 1:57 AM, Captain_Colossus said:

but only one side had them in the case of japan.

 

I know, my point exactly!  In fact, I said exactly this, read it again!  :P

 

Now that everyone has nukes, the question is how much can you get away with?  IMHO the only way to win the game of Global Thermonuclear War is to simply not play it.  You might use just one, but when the other side responds with theirs, even if it's just one to even things back out, or only two so that they get a leg back up on you, are you going to sit there and accept that?  Or will you answer them back with more nukes?  When does it stop?

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On 9/3/2017 at 11:59 AM, Maj.Hans said:

 

I know, my point exactly!  In fact, I said exactly this, read it again!  :P

 

Now that everyone has nukes, the question is how much can you get away with?  IMHO the only way to win the game of Global Thermonuclear War is to simply not play it.  You might use just one, but when the other side responds with theirs, even if it's just one to even things back out, or only two so that they get a leg back up on you, are you going to sit there and accept that?  Or will you answer them back with more nukes?  When does it stop?

 

Exactly

Mutually assured destruction

 

 

Besides from a SB gameplay perspective Nukes would be overpowered for the scale of combat we see in steel beasts on a 21 by 21 KM sized map.

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