Let's talk BMP-1

[Maj.Hans]

With the latest patch it looks like some additional ammo came out for the BMP-1.

I got on google and tried to get some answers but I seemed to get more confusion than real information...

 

Can anyone here explain what the three rounds are, and when they were introduced?  I was under the impression that the BMP-1 had a single type of HEAT ammo it's entire service life, and that part way through it's service an HE-FRAG round was introduced to give it better antipersonnel effect.

 

 

Also, any chance we'll see the HE-FRAG rounds in Pro PE?  I've been using BMP-1s in some recent cold war scenarios and noticed that their performance against infantry tends to be a little lackluster since they seem to be incredibly hesitant to use their main gun against troops.

[Captain_Colossus]

if you're willing to accept wikipedia, there is information for the main armament:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2A28_Grom

 

 

[Maj.Hans]

The problem is that Russians like to use systems of complete and total nonsense to name their equipment.  I read the wiki page, and some other pages...

 

There is a complete table on the SPG-9 page, but sometimes it seems to be confused and unreliable.  For example is lists one of the HE designations, OG-9V, as being used to designate both a projectile alone, and a complete round of ammunition.  It would make about as much sense as if I told you "M829A3" means an anti-tank round and also a coffee maker...

 

"PG-9" has various letters added after it,such as V, N, NT, VS, or VNT.  Sometimes no letter is added.

Sometimes this refers to a rocket propelled grenade which is boosted out of the SPG-9 or 2A28 by a launcher charge.

Sometimes this refers to a complete assembly of the grenade and it's specific launcher charge for the SPG-9.

 

"PG-15" followed by any number of letters (or maybe none at all) appears to refer to the combination of a rocket propelled grenade of the "PG-9" family, combined with a booster charge specific to the 2A28 'Grom'.  I'm guessing this is because the SPG-9 is a recoilless rifle and needs to vent gas out the back, while the 2A28 is a low-pressure gun and does not vent gas out the back, so it uses a different booster charge.

 

 

 

Now, with the 125mm ammunition, the dev team refers only to the projectile itself.  I can understand why they did this...

For example, you can pick "BM-15" from the list in game.  This is clear.  I understand this.  It makes sense to my brain. 

 

Just like the American and German designations make sense...

First there is M829.  Next came M829A1.  After that there was M829A2.  Then there was M829A3.

First there is DM13.  Next came DM13A1.  Then DM23.  Followed by DM33.  DM44 was developed, but instead they waited and bought DM53.

 

It makes perfect sense.  I get it.  The American designation system gives you an "M" for Model, and a number.

The German system is so great it even type-codes what the product is.  DM#3 for AP, DM#2 for HEAT, DM#1 for HE-Frag.

 

But the Russians?  Oh now...

"3BM-15" is the Soviet designation for a 125mm APFSDS projectile with a tungsten slug in the nose.

So maybe "3BM-16" was the projectile that came after 3BM-15?  NOPE!  WRONG!  It's a "projectile assembly" made with the 3BM-15 projectile!

"3VBM-7" is a complete round of ammunition, using the 3BM-15 projectile and the 3BM-16 projectile assembly.

 

So there's three freaking names for the same damn thing!

 

 

 

 

Now that I have a headache...

 

Does anyone have any clue when the three different types of SPG-9/2A28 ammunition (whatever name we call them...I don't care...) were introduced into service?  Right now I know that we essentially have three different levels of penetration (300mm, 400mm, tandem charge 550mm) but no idea what era they belong to.  I assume the tandem charge wasn't common in the 60's and 70's?

 

Can we get the HE-FRAG rounds added in a future patch so that the BMPs won't simply blast away with their Coax for all eternity at infantry that are out of range?  If not, can we make them less hesitant to occasionally fire their PG-9/PG-15/PG-Whatever rounds at infantry?

[Ssnake]

Whenever possible, I add the earliest date of introduction to the info of a specific round. If I can't find such info, I usually refrain from making an estimation. That being said, tandem charges are for the 1990s and later, well after the introduction of ERA. Tandem warheads require high precision manufacturing to be effective, a culture that the Russians adopted only after about the fall of the Soviet system with its numerous ailments (they were always capable of it if you think about their aircraft, space programs, nuclear weapon production ... but it was limited to these fields, by and large; in most other areas quantitative prduction goals seem to have been the priority).

 

As far as equipping the BMP-1 with OG-15 is concerned, I suppose that could be done, but it requires also that the AI is capable of choosing when the use of a high explosive round is the better choice than using coax. Also, don't forget that the GROM is terribly sensitive to crosswind conditions, so precision firing is a bit of a problem (for the AI, as long as the vehicle cannot be controlled by human players).