thewood Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Just got a brand new Surface Book 2 (i7 8550 (4.3GHz single core speed), nVidia 1050, 16 Gb RAM). It runs faster than my older MSI with a slightly older i7. It has a 3000 x 2000 display. Couldn't see the mouse cursor and tracked down the various threads about SB not built for hi res displays and causing invisible cursors. So went to windowed mode (which I hate due to taking 5%-10% frame rate hit), just to play. Now I can see the cursor, but all the text runs together in the map menus and buttons and on the 3D screen. I did note that no matter what resolution I set for SB, the cursor was invisible in full screen mode; even low resolution settings I have tried experimenting with the shortcut DPI compatibility settings. They seem to work initially, but when I close SB, it seems to reset the DPI settings. I am assuming the mouse issue in the 2-year old threads has never been addressed, but maybe I missed it. Any suggestions on the mouse or the DPI issues would be appreciated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted December 20, 2017 Members Share Posted December 20, 2017 It's difficult for us to trace down issues like this because a) If we cannot reproduce the error on our hardware, our ability to find the cause is next to nil b) If the problem occurs only in fullscreen mode, it's even worse because EVEN IF we had the same hardware that shows the same symptoms ... you couldn't debug a program in fullscreen mode. So, the hope is that by rewriting the user interface code and creating options to scale both text and mouse cursor sizes in Steel Beasts problems like these will go away. Unfortunately this is yert another major undertaking like the development of the high res terrain engine ... akin to remodeling a building where you have to replace load-bearing walls while you keep living in that house. It's "possible" (and yes, we also recognize it as a necessity), but it's not something that you do over night. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted December 20, 2017 Author Share Posted December 20, 2017 So it appears any fix to this issue is based on hopes and wishes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bond_Villian Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 13 hours ago, thewood said: So it appears any fix to this issue is based on hopes and wishes. The hopes and wishes of a fairly small subset of the SB community at that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 But face it, its getting bigger and it is inevitable. Its just a matter of how long... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted December 21, 2017 Members Share Posted December 21, 2017 I can't help it that in all the decades since fullscreen mode was introduced by Microsoft (ca 1994) compiler developers still haven't found a way to debug a program running in that mode. And if the problem can only be observed in that mode, and is further dependent on certain hardware and/or driver combinations that are unknown to us, then yes, it approximates "unfixable". Windowed mode is the workaround. You don't fully like that, and I understand why and it's a perfectly valid opinion not to like it, but for the moment this is the only viable choice. I can but ask for forgiveness here. The only path out of this situation that I can recognize is to rework the whole UI code. That is, I can't help it, a MAJOR redesign task. I could adopt other game developers' infamous strategy to tell you that anything will be solved "in two weeks", but that's not my style. My style is to be truthful, or not to say anything. So here's what I say: a) It's a major task, and by "major" I mean major. b) We will do it. Because, Llike you wrote, it's "inevitable" and will affect only more and more people in the future. We're not blind to that. c) Beyond that, I refuse to make a statement how long it will take. I'm sorry if that disappoints you. But in the last 20 years I have failed to deliver on maybe two to five promises that I made; I still regret those cases. So, I'm generally hesitant to promise anything. This is something that you may not know, but it may be an important detail to consider when judging the value of my answer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 Actually, windowed mode isn't a solution. The text in windowed mode stays the same size no matter resolution and window size. So in windowed mode, the text runs out of boxes and into each other. Its pretty unreadable. Also, the cursor boxes around texts seem to be offset so that I have to click to the side of the text to activate. It makes playing darn close to unplayable, just to get to through the menus. Even while playing, the menus run into each other and text in the map screen is all running together. I ave a few options... 1) try playing without a mouse cursor in full screen 2) Play windowed with etxt all messed up and a performance hit 3) Take my MSI back from my son so I can play SB. 4) Stop playing SB and maybe sell my codemeter stick Really only 3 and 4 are viable. I have played around with the DPI and scaling settings a lot, but with no real success for 1 and 2. I also haven't tried on an external monitor to see how that works. But that is a limiting option. The only other game that this was an issue with was Command Modern Naval and Air Operations from Matrix and the devs eventually fixed it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, thewood said: The only other game that this was an issue with was Command Modern Naval and Air Operations from Matrix and the devs eventually fixed it. Which is what Ssnake said they'd do. Eventually doesn't mean tomorrow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 I know, I read it. Not sure your point of repeating it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 42 minutes ago, thewood said: I know, I read it. ... Didn't seem so... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 And exactly why is that? Because I said the windowed mode doesn't work also. And I pointed out SB isn't the only game with the issue. Are you guys really so sensitive to any perceived criticism that I can't point out what doesn't work? I laid out the options I have. I pointed out another game with exactly the same issues. What has you guys all twisted up over it? I read Snake's reply and pointed out the his short term solution doesn't work. I also pointed out I know another game company I know that had the issue. So, should I have said nothing? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted December 22, 2017 Members Share Posted December 22, 2017 I don't think the others are extremely sensitive, they are just aware of the conditions under which we're working, and they know how to read my statements. I tried to explain to you that the only viable short-term alternative to "not having a mouse cursor in fullscreen mode" is to have a mouse cursor in windowed mode, even if that windowed mode doesn't address the text size or the fact that there's sometimes labels from buttons bleeding into other areas. I know that it sucks, and I'm sorry about it. I'd love to do something about it right away, but unless you have a fairy at hand that can sprinkle the source code with a generous portion of pixie dust to magically transform the UI I'm stuck with the limitations of reality. I'm not crazy about reality either (but it's still the only place to get a decent meal). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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