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Major duck

4.023 hind helos wont engage

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Hi

 

I don't know whether is a bug or not but when we played the 6,5 hours new year special last night i couldn't get the hinds to fire on the enemy at all the only thing i could was buzz them and i don't think that is the intent. Swordsmandk had the same problem i think its his  screenshots below

 

Skrmbillede_2017-12-29_23.49.18.png?widt

 

Skrmbillede_2017-12-29_23.45.06.png?widt

Skrmbillede_2017-12-29_23.17.51.png?widt

 

there was many more and much much more obvious situations where the tanks where in completely open ground with hinds flying in a straight line or hovering with clear fields of fire and we couldn't get the hind gunner/Pilot to fire

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ekyva2p8icctrs/Op Lion Gamefile Kanium_9348_122917DESKTOP-OOBG1803.rar?dl=0

 

 

MD

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Hmm, they did engage in the last beta i ve tested. 

 

But that was on open terrain. Could this one be conected to the"scan horizon" bug? That the helos are only scanning the treetips above the tanks and therefor never see the targets? 

 

 

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Yes, they engage fine from what I can see. There are several factors here, they won't engage the target from the front if they know the missile won't penetrate (hard to tell the target in the image, but it looks like a newer Leo2, and the ATGM is is not sufficient -- it is an old missile made for Cold War targets like M60 and Leo1). In the other screen shot, it looks like weather/visibility would be the issue.

 

I suggest that you put in a different target on a flat map to observe if the Hind actually does engage or not (which it does, AFAICT).

 

 

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Posted (edited)

They were mostly Leo 2A4s in the scenario mentioned / source of the screen shots.

 

There were four(?) Leo 1A5s in the Recon Platoon but the majority were 2A4s.

 

Edited by Gibsonm

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OK thanks for the info, still Leo 2A4s are on the edge of what the missile is capable of destroying, from the front.

 

Anyone can feel free to try the Hind against another target in clear weather, flat map.

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i had issue with hind and cobra, they would not engage the targets if I took control of them.  if I let computer control them, then they would engage.  if I observed on them but didn't move them, they would engage, but once I would move them to a different location, they would not engage again until I did an assault route for them.  And this was for missiles only,  all other ammo it they would engage, just not missiles.  this was against t-72s and leo 2a4's   and it only the missiles affected.   I had the hind and cobra ammo loaded with just missiles , and any time Iwold take control of the chopper and steer,  the ammo would go to unknown. 0/0   but once I put it on a planned assault route, it would select up missile and use it until I went to control it again.  Think this is related to the stated problem.  

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13 hours ago, RENEGADE-623 said:

i had issue with hind and cobra, they would not engage the targets if I took control of them.  if I let computer control them, then they would engage.  if I observed on them but didn't move them, they would engage, but once I would move them to a different location, they would not engage again until I did an assault route for them.  And this was for missiles only,  all other ammo it they would engage, just not missiles.  this was against t-72s and leo 2a4's   and it only the missiles affected.   I had the hind and cobra ammo loaded with just missiles , and any time Iwold take control of the chopper and steer,  the ammo would go to unknown. 0/0   but once I put it on a planned assault route, it would select up missile and use it until I went to control it again.  Think this is related to the stated problem.  

I have had similar issues with the Cobra; as well as significant accuracy issues with the Cobras cannon - seems like the aircraft has trouble hitting targets on the move  while under manual control.

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19 hours ago, RENEGADE-623 said:

i had issue with hind and cobra, they would not engage the targets if I took control of them.  if I let computer control them, then they would engage.  if I observed on them but didn't move them, they would engage, but once I would move them to a different location, they would not engage again until I did an assault route for them.  And this was for missiles only,  all other ammo it they would engage, just not missiles.  this was against t-72s and leo 2a4's   and it only the missiles affected.   I had the hind and cobra ammo loaded with just missiles , and any time Iwold take control of the chopper and steer,  the ammo would go to unknown. 0/0   but once I put it on a planned assault route, it would select up missile and use it until I went to control it again.  Think this is related to the stated problem.  

 

OK, try remove the gun ammo and see if that improves the situation. An old issue was noticed before where the AI would try to use the gun too much.  Maybe that is what is happening here.

 

Either way, a simple test scenario (if possible) would be most helpful. :)

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here is scenario.   I made it with one cobra and one hind, missiles only but unlimited.   targets are leo2a4's.   I tried making video of what I did but file size was too large so ill explain it best I can.   cobra is on left side of map,  hind is on right side.     I manually controlled the cobra directly north to the leos set for it at the 27 grid line.  it would not select missile while I had it controlled and stopped.   once I set an assault route for it, it selected missile, engaged the super leos.  when I took control of the cobra again, it selected unknown for ammo.   Then I switched to the hind and  did same exact thing, and got same results, as long as I was controlling the hind, it would not select missile, but once I set an assault route for it, it selected the missile and engaged.  and when I went to control it again, it selected unknown for ammo

 

chopper missile cobra hind.sce

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In the provided scenario I found that Renegade-623 is correct, if any control of movement is exerted on the helos they will not engage.  I surmise this is because the programs at this point has set you in the TC position and, as in a tank, the gunner is waiting for you to give a fire command.  I was able to engage using either the "e" key or the "engage here" command from the unit icon menu.  "Shoot this unit" did not seem to function.

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So as long as you stay out of the 3D world you are OK? That is, routes and waypoints work?

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If given a route, then enter 3D and only observe, yes they work.  Once a directional command is given you will need to tell it to engage before it will fire its weapons.

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I also found that this issue does not seem to affect the rockets or the grenade launcher of the Cobra.  I was able to fly manually while the gunner happily expended quite a bit of ammo (most of which overshot the intended target).  There was also one instance where it shot grenades at tank targets, from extreme range for a grenade, rather than the usual rockets.

 

I also found that the Cobra, while having an issue of prioritizing tanks or infantry, was able to fire grenades and TOWs with a single problem, that being not wanting to launch a TOW even though it was within missile range of tanks but out of grenade range of infantry. 

 

Adding rockets to the mix caused the TOWs not to be used at all.

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Thanks for the update - I'll need to do some work to find out to best employ both during RT '18.

 

Admittedly the Red helos are under AI control, but the Cobras will be controlled by the USMC player (may need to send them a note "to control them via routes and only watch from the 3D world" to ensure they work).

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Posted (edited)

While testing a scen tonight i flew 2 tigers and they only fired while you sent them on an assault route then all weapons engaged everything else did nothing, but both in 3 d view and from F5 worked in assault route

They also fired all its weapons, i am pretty sure that it fired Gun, rockets and missiles as appropriate

 

MD

Edited by Major duck

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It seems the workaround at the moment is what Cavgunner says is to look in the target direction and press E

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1 hour ago, DarkAngel said:

It seems the workaround at the moment is what Cavgunner says is to look in the target direction and press E

 

Does that mean that they wont work when under AI control (routes, tactics, etc.)?

 

Edited by Gibsonm

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I  loaded the cobra with all ammo and  went to the super leos,  when it first started, it wold fire the rockets, but when I hit e, it did select up the tows and use them

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That's great news for a human player, not so much the AI - I can't script "hit E now". :)

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I find that assault and engage routes work for the AI engaging with missiles.  

 

I don't know if this would be practical for your scenario, Gibson, but there could be two flights/sections of helos, one set up as AT, the other to engage infantry.

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5 hours ago, Gibsonm said:

 

Does that mean that they wont work when under AI control (routes, tactics, etc.)?

 

They seem to yes. Probably worth a test run before your big event.

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