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wildbillkelsoe

M1A1 TC 50 cal gun sight depresses palm switch?

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I'm trying to scan with the fifty cal gunsight F3 view but as soon as I move it side to side the turret feels like it is being overriden from the gunner. Is this normal behaviour? Meaning the gunner stops scanning and the familiar pfft sound plays denoting a stopped turret. I also read that in certain models the TC has his own sight and is irrespective of the gunner sight and he can slew the gunner and thus the turret to whatever he is looking at without being coaxial with the gunner. Which model if any, is it?

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I'm not sure if real-life procedures can be adequately represented in this case, to be honest. In real life, the human gunner might actually keep his sight on the target while the commander announces "cal .50". That makes it easier for the commander to aim, particularly if the own tank is moving, or the target.

Once that you combine human behavior with computer-controlled crews, things get iffy.

It's easy enough if you're in the gunner's seat. Sit still, or track the target, the computer-controlled commander will adapt and fire away. The problem starts when you have a computer-controlled gunner while you're in the cal .50 sight. This SHOULD trigger the gunner to play dead, and not move the turret. So you'll have to do all the aiming on your own. Of course, as soon as you leave the sight (no matter how briefly), the computer gunner will resume his scanning movement of the turret.

 

That's at least the intended behavior. If you observe something different, let me know. Also, be sure about which Abrams version you're using. The M1A1 (and earlier versions) still have the sight and hand crank operated Commander's Weapon Station. Due to space restrictions, that had to be replaced by a pintle mount in the M1A2 (to make room for the battlefield management system's map screen, and surveillance monitors).

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no I am in the commander seat. the gunner scans normally with my sight moving with him. The problem is, the sight of the fifty cal is dependent on the gunner turret control. So when I am looking at the fifty cal sight, without touching the controls to move the sight and thus the fifty cal, the gunner resumes searching and even my sight moves along with him. If I click with the mouse to steer the fifty sight left or right, the turret is fully stopped as if I just depressed the palm switch and took control of the whole turret, even though I am only looking at and interacting with and moving the fifty cal sight.

 

To me it feels like the TC fifty nest is halfway a coaxial gun nest. Is it in real life freely swiveling in the turret? or is it fixed? I thought TC might engage targets with the fifty independent on where the turret and thus the gunner is looking. I am speaking purely M1A1 (no HA/IP/whatever)

 

Perhaps a video is in order this time?

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SB simulated this as it would be IRL. The CWS is not stabilized but can move independently. If you were to move the CWS while the gunner is scanning it would be pointless due to you would be fighting the Turret movement in azimuth. Left/Right movements are powered and up/down are Manual. What your seeing is proper engagement techniques being used. On the range most of the time the gunner will find the target and lase to it given the TC the range. All the TC has to do then is adjust up or down. The TC 50 most of the time is aligned in azimuth with the Turret for faster and more accuracy when engaging targets. 

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Yes. If you are in the commander's seat activating the CWS, the (computer-controlled) gunner MUST stop scanning to make that weapon at least marginally useful. A human player might act a bit more intelligently by tracking the intended target, but how would the computer-controlled gunner know what your intended target is? So, he stops scanning.

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Ah I see. So because azimuth is powered hence gunner and thus turret is stopped. makes sense now. I can already laugh at a poor mans CWS if it was stabilised and TC would be fighting the whole turret to scan independently. thanks fellas.

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15 hours ago, wildbillkelsoe said:

Ah I see. So because azimuth is powered hence gunner and thus turret is stopped. makes sense now. I can already laugh at a poor mans CWS if it was stabilised and TC would be fighting the whole turret to scan independently. thanks fellas.

 

M1A1SA and M1A1FEP received improved SCWS (Stabilized Commander Weapon Station), which is fully stabilized in azimuth and elevation, have powered traverse and elevation, and gunner does not need to stop traversing turret when commander uses SCWS. Also USMC plans to upgrade SCWS further so image from it's sights will be displayed on LCD display + controls will be modified, so as far as I understand it, TC will not use SCWS direct controls, but will use his control handle, and SCWS will rotate independently from TC body position.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Damian90 said:

 

M1A1SA and M1A1FEP received improved SCWS (Stabilized Commander Weapon Station), which is fully stabilized in azimuth and elevation, have powered traverse and elevation, and gunner does not need to stop traversing turret when commander uses SCWS. Also USMC plans to upgrade SCWS further so image from it's sights will be displayed on LCD display + controls will be modified, so as far as I understand it, TC will not use SCWS direct controls, but will use his control handle, and SCWS will rotate independently from TC body position.

 

 

It may be wise to have a actual operator to post on this, and the operation (Assassin7,or another US crewman), speculation is not all that helpful.

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Posted (edited)

I dont think a serviceman current or not will shimmer light on these delicate matters. 

Edited by wildbillkelsoe

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Posted (edited)

If you look here, they do, It'd important to give first hand info on un-clas info, and not what may or nor not make into  production AFV's to evaluate such equipment. And we do value their insight as active users of said equipment.

Edited by 12Alfa

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Posted (edited)

I'll point out that I've been asking for years to have an option to tell the human Computer gunner to keep shooting, both in the M1A1 and M1A2.  There are some occasions where I might want to send a bunch of .50cal slugs flying in a certain direction, but don't want the gunner to stop what he's doing...

I'm thinking of a certain scene from the movie "Spaceballs" right now......You know the one...

Edited by Maj.Hans

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5 hours ago, Maj.Hans said:

I'll point out that I've been asking for years to have an option to tell the human gunner to keep shooting, both in the M1A1 and M1A2.  There are some occasions where I might want to send a bunch of .50cal slugs flying in a certain direction,

Well then surely just tell the human gunner?

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On 5/2/2018 at 1:26 AM, Gibsonm said:

Well then surely just tell the human gunner?

What about the COMPUTER gunner?

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2 minutes ago, Maj.Hans said:

What about the COMPUTER gunner?

 

No idea - your comment said Human Gunner?

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Just now, Gibsonm said:

 

No idea - your comment said Human Gunner?

Oh.  I derped.  I want a button to tell the Artificial Idiot gunner what I want him to do...
 

 

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On 5/5/2018 at 4:58 PM, Rotareneg said:

There is the rarely used "Suppress" command.

The problem is that when you, as a human, attempt to perform the "suppress" command with a machine gun from the TC's position, the crew will drop everything and sit there like idiots.  We need a "KEEP FIGHTING!" command for them so that they don't cease all meaningful activity while I attempt to merely fire in a general direction.

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2 hours ago, Maj.Hans said:

We need a "KEEP FIGHTING!" command for them so that they don't cease all meaningful activity while I attempt to merely fire in a general direction.

What do you mean "we," Kemosabe? I'm perfectly happy with the AI behavior of pausing scanning when I try to use the M1A1 CWS.

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