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Multiple weapons (ATGM/ main gun/ MG)


dpabrams

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I got my ass handed to me by a Hind while in a M113G3 DK TOW. The AI kept calling for caliber .50 but as the commander I couldn't access the 50 (am I missing a button here?). Then I remembered something about limitations on some platforms.

 

Sooooooooo, the question is, is there no usable .50 cal the the M113G3 DK TOW?

Edited by dpabrams
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14 hours ago, MAJ_Fubar said:

Although the weapon is provided with ammunition, it isn't usable due to the TOW launcher's position.

Is this "real world", meaning in operation the TOW launcher would have to be put away in order for the .50 to operate?

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5 hours ago, Ssnake said:

None of these fall into the category "attached gun", these are all "mounted guns". "Attached guns" are entities of their own, riding along with a vehicle.

OK, that makes more sense after the explanation. This is what prevent's adding the existing Milan for example to a Marder?

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2 hours ago, dpabrams said:

OK, that makes more sense after the explanation. This is what prevent's adding the existing Milan for example to a Marder?

No.

The Milan would be the only "attached gun" in this context. But the problem is that it can be used both mounted OR dismounted, which brings up complications with the user interface. In a world where we would have enough time to implement everything "right" we would take the time. In our real world, there's constant and immense time pressure on the team to finish a myriad of different things which are all competing for scarce development time. The (lack of) a mounted Milan is an example of a feature that doesn't get implemented because we chose to work on something else. If there was a mounted Milan in Steel Beasts, "something else" would be missing (and, per our estimates, make you "even more unhappy").

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On 5/4/2018 at 10:28 AM, Ssnake said:

No.

The Milan would be the only "attached gun" in this context. But the problem is that it can be used both mounted OR dismounted, which brings up complications with the user interface. In a world where we would have enough time to implement everything "right" we would take the time. In our real world, there's constant and immense time pressure on the team to finish a myriad of different things which are all competing for scarce development time. The (lack of) a mounted Milan is an example of a feature that doesn't get implemented because we chose to work on something else. If there was a mounted Milan in Steel Beasts, "something else" would be missing (and, per our estimates, make you "even more unhappy").

 

In the case of the Milan, particularly as this is a "vehicle centric" simulator, I would be more than happy to have it permanently attached to the vehicle.

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4 hours ago, Maj.Hans said:

 

In the case of the Milan, particularly as this is a "vehicle centric" simulator, I would be more than happy to have it permanently attached to the vehicle.

Unfortunately for that POV, a whole bunch of people probably want the other option and be able to carry it some distance from the vehicle and us it dismounted.

 

Permanently attaching the Milan to the vehicle and then giving them a dismounted missile team means you end up with two Milan posts instead of one.

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Not really.

 

What you'd need is to setup a bunch of triggers so that for every mounted unit you'd need something along the lines of:

 

Trigger 1: Vehicle X Milan Damaged

Trigger 2: Vehicle X Milan Repaired

Trigger 3: Dismounted Milan Y Damaged

Trigger 4: Dismounted Milan Y Repaired.

 

For a platoon that's what 8 Triggers and Company 24 or so?

 

Then every time you get to a location where you want to dismount a given team you'd need to activate the triggers to reflect if you wanted the vehicle version or the dismounted version. Oh and of course you'd need to script some sort of mutually exclusive events so an unscrupulous player didn't activate Trigger 2 and Trigger 4. :)

 

Then say if you want the vehicle mounted one activated - how do you fire it? There is no fire control system replicated in the Marder turret.

 

Then if the dismounted team has the damaged Milan they are still carrying it around with a subsequent loss of mobility and no alternative weapon system.

 

If you want to "fix" that issue you are now talking about spawning a non Milan team to replace the Milan team if you activate the vehicle mounted option. Spawning that team in the location required comes with more issues.

 

Yes if you pre determine that the squad will dismount at waypoint X you can script it, but to allow the player to chose where, what dismounts, is a bit harder.

 

I don't think it can be "be remedied by the scenario designer fairly easily". :)

 

Edited by Gibsonm
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Well what i meant was that the scenario designer could just choose between it being mounted OR dismounted (if it were modeled with FCS etc). Ie; If you want it mounted- dont give the dismounts a milan. If you want it dismounted- disable the vehicles milan and give the dismounts one. I realise you couldnt have it both ways but at least you could choose- whatever floats your boat :)

Edited by Bond_Villian
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Doctrinally though, Marder operators need both options during a mission. They want to decide on a cse-by-case basis whether they are going to keep the Milan mounted, or if they dismount it. A "one size for the entire scenario" setting simply doesn't exist.

 

Seriously, and I don't want to sound cranky, what kind of a discussion is this. Someone asked "why is it not there", and I answered than. Then you come and say "Oh, but I can imagine an alternative, so it can't be so hard." It may not be "objectively 'hard'" to do, allright, but if the developer tells you that it's not entirely trivial and that it's currently out of scope, well, you better believe it.

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