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So what should a chap do now?

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Okay, after years away from SB ( I never got good) but returning with a vengance I wonder if any of your Grognards can offer some advice?

I am now at the stage where I can manage the vehicals systems. I can fire at opfor and with a good probilbilty within 5 seconds.

What I need to know is how to manage my platoon. As a single tank commander or gunner I rock, in SP at least. I can get by with a platoon, but in MP sessions I feel out of depth and lacking.

Ive scoured the downloadable missions, but get scared by anything above tank responsibility. As mentioned I can handle a platoon, but many of the missions Ive tried are just an excercise in shooting or else a case of pushing counters around the map with little foresight as to the outcome.

Can anyone direct me towards a mission that can allow me to learn without clogging my feeble brain in excessive detail.

Ive scanned the manuals, but appying generic cases to what seems to be happeing to me is tough.

Much obliged.

S!

Squid

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Can anyone direct me towards a mission that can allow me to learn without clogging my feeble brain in excessive detail.

:bigsmile:Igvy [tankers] - high intellectual demonic beings.:evil:

Edited by mp96

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Check the contest scenarios. We deliberately limited them to platoon level on several occasions so that we'd increase the number of scenarios suitable for smaller action. Of course those single player missions can't fully prepare you for multiplayer events, but they may still be both entertaining and enlightening.

Check the AAR. Review your own actions. Compare in the "Show" menu the reported enemy positions with the real ones, especially at phases of the battle when you made certain fundamental decisions. Ask yourself what you wanted to accomplish, what you did to have success, and what you would do differently next time, or what you would do the same.

From honest answers to these questions you can only learn.

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You've hit on THE key problem of simulated warfare.

In real life, the crew commanders of the other tanks in your troop are sergeants and warrant officers. They have been around forever, they are experts in what they do, and while quality can vary even the worst shitpump is still a functioning human being capable of some degree of independent thought and action.

By contrast , the AI is extremely limited in its capacity for "thought". It cannot understand intent. It has no sense of self-preservation (or very little) It cannot grasp tactics except in the simplest possible sense. It has zero flexibility, and it cannot suggest alternate courses of action.

It has amazing eyes and gunners, but that's about it.

So commanding a SB troop is like leading a group of morons with supernatural reflexes. You have to keep close tabs on them - far more so than in reality - or they will do something stupid. Plans have to be kept simple, because you will be in charge of all the decisions, and you will get precious little help from the AI.

The good news is that the enemy OPFOR is operating under the same limitations - so when you make first contact, the AI won't suddenly suppress you from a firebase while a countermove force flanks you....

SB is best in small unit actions with real people in the commander's seats.

DG

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Yes I agree, AI is really the bane of any sim, be it the enemy or your own simulated guys.

That said, I think the SBP has some of the best AI i have seen, its not perfect but it does a good job. Of course I appreciate its never going to compete with a pro (or seasoned player).

Its weird, playing something like Combat Mission SF, I can comfortably handle large numbers of different units with acceptable results.

In SBP though, once I climb into my vitual tank, i find situational awareness goes out the window (hatch?).

I find myself staring at the map, trying to work out just where that enemy contact is in relation to the 3d world. In preplanning I devise what seems to me to be a perfectly sensible plan, involving overwatch and tactical movement, only to discover my BPs are less than perfect and either the tanks are totally out of cover or cant see a thing.

As for the enemy AI, due to the amount of work that goes into some of the missions, I find them more than competant. I shudder to think how I would fare against a human opponent.

Ive been playing sims for the last 20 years and appreciate that in one as in depth and realistic as SBP the learning curve can be steep. But I guess thats part of its charm.

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Okay Gary, Im playing your scenario, excellent stuff.

You really have to think about where your going and what cover there is. I think this is going to help me a fair bit.

A question though. In the M1 the TC doesnt have a seperate periscope sight or optics like the leos. In effect all he can do is use the GPS and overide it. Isnt this a bit redundant? In the Leo the TC is a second pair of eyes. In the M1 im limited to using my binos out of the hatch. Which isnt easy when travelling.

So the question is, what position is reccommended for overall situational awareness?

Thanks in advance.

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Stay out of the hatch. It is pointless and limiting yourself too much if you and your gunner look through the same sight. Keep in mind, with normal eye sight (in reality) you have about 140° field of view (I think it's 45° on a normal monitor). With binoculars or the GPSE in large field of view you only get 8...10°, that's some serious tunnel vision.

You can't spot enemy while looking through a straw. You want a wide field of view, and where that isn't possible, a quick but thorough scan with magnifying optics.

If you find you can't properly observe on the move, you'll need to adopt bounding overwatch. Do this from the 3D view. Use the tactical icons of the other vehicles in your platoon to send one section forward ("Advance to..." command) while you overwatch their movement (which means, look at everything BUT your tanks - you want to spot enemy, not marvel the sight as they're getting hit.)

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So the question is, what position is reccommended for overall situational awareness?

Thanks in advance.

Well you could do the RL thing and alternate between the commander view with your head out the hatch and the map view.

Then the trick is to learn the balance.

I often see three sorts of trainee:

1. The guy locked into the commander’s view. He is good at fighting his vehicle but often looses the rest of the Troop because he has no idea of the bigger picture beyond his cupola.

2. The guy locked into the map view. He deploys the Troop well but is then shocked to find that his personal vehicle has been hit multiple times because he was so focused on the map that he forgot about the T-80 600m to his front.

3. The guy bouncing around frantically swapping views to maintain the broader perspective and yet still fighting his vehicle.

Guy No. 3 passes the course. :)

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Well you could do the RL thing and alternate between the commander view with your head out the hatch and the map view.

Then the trick is to learn the balance.

I often see three sorts of trainee:

1. The guy locked into the commander’s view. He is good at fighting his vehicle but often looses the rest of the Troop because he has no idea of the bigger picture beyond his cupola.

2. The guy locked into the map view. He deploys the Troop well but is then shocked to find that his personal vehicle has been hit multiple times because he was so focused on the map that he forgot about the T-80 600m to his front.

3. The guy bouncing around frantically swapping views to maintain the broader perspective and yet still fighting his vehicle.

Guy No. 3 passes the course. :)

Or if guy number three has three monitors :biggrin: one for map and one for the battle :biggrin:

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Or if guy number three has three monitors :biggrin: one for map and one for the battle :biggrin:

Sure but no doubt you are glancing at all three, not just focused on one exclusively.

Besides the guy has just bought this, don’t make him think that he needs a 3 screen setup just to get it to work! :)

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Sure, I got it but I’m just trying to make sure we don’t scare off the new guys. :)

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Best position for overall awareness? I'd say that it'd be the one you're most comfortable with once you've developed your own style of play.

As far as limitations of the M1A1, the Hornfelt scenarios are not passworded. You can go into the mission editor and change the type of unit, if you'd like.

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Well you could do the RL thing and alternate between the commander view with your head out the hatch and the map view.

Then the trick is to learn the balance.

I often see three sorts of trainee:

1. The guy locked into the commander’s view. He is good at fighting his vehicle but often looses the rest of the Troop because he has no idea of the bigger picture beyond his cupola.

2. The guy locked into the map view. He deploys the Troop well but is then shocked to find that his personal vehicle has been hit multiple times because he was so focused on the map that he forgot about the T-80 600m to his front.

3. The guy bouncing around frantically swapping views to maintain the broader perspective and yet still fighting his vehicle.

Guy No. 3 passes the course. :)

Well, if your running a company you'll spent 80% of the time in the map screen.

And as a FOO 100%, (cept when adjusting fires)

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Well, if your running a company you'll spent 80% of the time in the map screen.

And as a FOO 100%, (cept when adjusting fires)

Sure but the guys I was referring to are LTs on their ROBC (Regt officer’s Basic Course) a rough analogue for the OPs question as a new player.

Certainly as you go up the rank structure the balance shifts.

When we work with the CAPTs doing their OCs cse their focus is a bit different.

But even a BG CO needs to remember to look out of the hatch once in a while. :)

And I wouldn’t trust a FOO with a working turret anyway, that’s why we take the gun out. :)

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And I wouldn’t trust a FOO with a working turret anyway, that’s why we take the gun out. :)

How Dare You, Sir!

:biggrin:

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I just played Gary Owen's scenario Camp Hornfelt Tactical Movement and I've learn allot just by playing the first scenario. I will play it again to learn more and experiment.

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ITs tough!

They come from everywhere! But its great in its simplicity. Ive gotten as far as knowing why I got killed, but struggling to work out how not to make it happen the next time. (Nukes?).

Seriously though its a masterpiece

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German fundamentals of armored tactics:

Well, thats the point: killing the enemy first, is the best way to not getting hit 8-)

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