no load command for commander?

[Marko]

I wasn't the one who was complaining about it, you were (as usual). So, do something about it. Contribute. Be a team-player.

That's what some of us are trying to do and get shot down for it.

By a click of some members.this is suppose to be a discussion forum. not a appreciating society.

We are all fans of SB.otherwise we wouldn't be here in the first place.

But it seems that if you don't tow the line you leave your self open to unfair criticism.

And ridicule.Members have the right to voice there opinion.and ask questions.

Esim staff are under no obligation to answer.

But in fairness. Ssnake normally does.you mite not like his response but a least you will get one.

The new upgrade has a lot of features members have been looking to be implemented for a long time.

And there is a definite buzz from members.and guests alike.so cut the guy,s some slack.

And stop picking a fight.

i have turned on my mail if you have something to say privately

[dejawolf]

Who ever said i was complaining? i just said i THOUGHT it wasnt the hardest thing to do.

if you really needed to know, the reason the leopard 1A5DK exterior wasn't updated along with the new interior model, is simply: because we were busy implementing the leopard 1A5DK interior model. oh and we were busy adding all that other stuff thats been posted here over the last month or so. the older models will get improved in time. but not this time around.

[oscar19681]

That's what some of us are trying to do and get shot down for it.

By a click of some members.this is suppose to be a discussion forum. not a appreciating society.

We are all fans of SB.otherwise we wouldn't be here in the first place.

But it seems that if you don't tow the line you leave your self open to unfair criticism.

And ridicule.Members have the right to voice there opinion.and ask questions.

Esim staff are under no obligation to answer.

But in fairness. Ssnake normally does.you mite not like his response but a least you will get one.

The new upgrade has a lot of features members have been looking to be implemented for a long time.

And there is a definite buzz from members.and guests alike.so cut the guy,s some slack.

And stop picking a fight.

i have turned on my mail if you have something to say privately

Well said , i couldnt have said if better myself. It seems i have became the target for picking a forum fight lately just because i asked questions that were not apreciated. But lets leave it at that .

[oscar19681]

if you really needed to know, the reason the leopard 1A5DK exterior wasn't updated along with the new interior model, is simply: because we were busy implementing the leopard 1A5DK interior model. oh and we were busy adding all that other stuff thats been posted here over the last month or so. the older models will get improved in time. but not this time around.

See? thats all i ever wanted to know. If this awnser was given right away there wouldt not have to be such a forum war about it in in the centurion leopard 1 thread , thats what i was trying to say all allong. But i guess for some reason some people thought otherwise and desided it was time to bombard me with some pretty out of line critisizm while all i wanted was a simple awnser to my question in the first place..

[dejawolf]

See? thats all i ever wanted to know. If this awnser was given right away there wouldt not have to be such a forum war about it in in the centurion leopard 1 thread , thats what i was trying to say all allong. But i guess for some reason some people thought otherwise and desided it was time to bombard me with some pretty out of line critisizm while i i wanted was a simple awnser to my question.

it is implied.

[Kingtiger]

On the other hand Oscar, you have a loong history if ruthless complaining that never ended. that makes people assume you are complaining as fast as you post something. (no personal offence, just explaining why some posts have it spikes outward when you post something)

[Tacbat]

Members have the right to voice there opinion.and ask questions.

Well, when the same question gets asked repeatedly by members who have been on the forum longer then I have, it gets really annoying. Apparently, the answer hasn't sunk in yet. "Why isn't this done?", "Why can't we have X?", "Why this and not that?", etc. The answer is simple, as Dejawolf has mentioned again for probably the 100th time, that there is only so much time to do things. How hard is it to understand that?

There, in a single sentence I've answered any past, present or future questions anyone might have as to why anything is, or isn't in SB. You're welcome. Now, how about we move on and start using the forum for something more constructive for a change?

[oscar19681]

On the other hand Oscar, you have a loong history if ruthless complaining that never ended. that makes people assume you are complaining as fast as you post something. (no personal offence, just explaining why some posts have it spikes outward when you post something)

fair enough , but all ever tried to do is to find out what will be improved because even the best sim always have room for improvement and like marko said we have a right to ask questions and express cristsizm . If i allways meant to complain about SBP or was dissapointed by it i would have put sbp on the shelve and wouldt be active in the community anymore. Snake was right by saying i should take certain comment like a man but this goes both ways and they should in turn take critsizm like man as well. I mean if you create a product for the consumer market you should realize that people will ask for stuff and express some critisizm . I admit that i sometimes have taken it to far but i just dont think its fair to be redeculed again and again by the whole community and esim just because i express my opinion . In the end i,m very happy about how far sbp has come and will go. But it seems some people think i dont like the product and dont respect the fact how much work is being (and has been) done so far .

[Tacbat]

i have turned on my mail if you have something to say privately

Hmm, doesn't seem to be working:

"Marko has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her.

If you are trying to send this message to multiple recipients, remove Marko from the recipient list and send the message again."

[Ssnake]

i just dont think its fair to be redeculed again and again by the whole community and esim just because i express my opinion.

It is NOT about the fact that you express your opinion. It is about HOW you choose to express yourself. You may not mean it, but you simply create the impression of negativity, demand, entitlement.

When some answers have been repeatedly given or are plain obvious, asking questions over and over is no longer just asking questions. It's harassment and trolling. Asking about the Leopard exterior may just have been a straw, but it was the one that broke the camel's back, if you're familiar with that expression. Look at it in the context of four weeks of nearly daily updates about new features. In the first two weeks we announce a playable T-72, a playable CV90/30, a playable NZLAV, a Centurion, Boxer, Fuchs, Shilka, the fact that you now may save Plan files again, that all TOW systems in SB Pro PE can now be controlled by the player, and on November 4th your reaction is

I sure would have loved an m1 update in the patch

I suppose I have to be grateful because you didn't forget to at least appreciate the T-72 in that post.

This fits well into the pattern that you showed in July 2010. I keep telling you that there will be daily announcements of new features for the next six weeks, and on the first two weeks your replies can be summarized to as "That's all?"

For someone who values our work, you have a unique way of expressing your appreciation.

I have no trouble if you have a different opinion. I have no trouble if you say "I'm sorry, this new update isn't my cup of tea. You worked a lot, but the result doesn't convince me, I would rather like X."

But that's not the way you come across. You basically neglect what's on the table, point to a more or less obscure element that is missing, and in blissful ignorance of the amount of work that was put into the heap of new stuff you just point out that something that you didn't bother to mention in the last months as in urgent need of an overhaul is somehow missing. You imply that way that everything else is worthless, and then you act surprised if, after years of that pattern, I finally have enough of it, and start talking about that you deserve to be treated with respect because you paid money (and received a game in return, which, despite being apparently worthless and awful, was somehow good enough to justify buying an upgrade or two). And we're supposed to appreciate your mere presence in this forum as a sign of your benevolence and support for the community.

Yes, you are welcome to express your opinion. You are welcome to criticize. Nobody was ever banned from this forum for writing a negative opinion of SB Pro. What I cannot accept however is the dismissal of the team's collective effort, ignorance about answers given repeatedly in the past, ignorance about the economic conditions under which we are making SB Pro PE, and wallowing in victimization as soon as someone calls you out on this.

I don't demand reverence. I don't demand that the members of this community tow a certain party line. I can accept if someone gets angry and starts to call me names on occasion, as long as it doesn't become habitual. But I get territorial and aggressive if someone dismisses the team's effort just because his imagination about the amount of work that is involved is too limited to appreciate our offer. There's a world of difference between:

"Why do we get a 3D interior while the outside view of the Leo 1 is still ugly? As a paying customer, I demand an answer!"

and

"The new interior of the Leopard looks like it took a lot of effort to make. I hope that it'll get a visual facelift in the upgrade after next to do the 3D interior more justice".

Would it really be so hard?

[TankHunter]

Essentially all recognize the effort put into the update. It is also readily apparent for those with open eyes that the update is the largest one to date and the biggest thing to happen to the sim since it came out about half a decade ago, a process started with the last update which saw the inclusion of a variety of new CW era vehicles. Essentially all see these as good omens.

Nils, dev team, etc keep up the good work.

Edited November 28, 2011 by TankHunter

[oscar19681]

It is NOT about the fact that you express your opinion. It is about HOW you choose to express yourself. You may not mean it, but you simply create the impression of negativity, demand, entitlement.

When some answers have been repeatedly given or are plain obvious, asking questions over and over is no longer just asking questions. It's harassment and trolling. Asking about the Leopard exterior may just have been a straw, but it was the one that broke the camel's back, if you're familiar with that expression. Look at it in the context of four weeks of nearly daily updates about new features. In the first two weeks we announce a playable T-72, a playable CV90/30, a playable NZLAV, a Centurion, Boxer, Fuchs, Shilka, the fact that you now may save Plan files again, that all TOW systems in SB Pro PE can now be controlled by the player, and on November 4th your reaction is

I suppose I have to be grateful because you didn't forget to at least appreciate the T-72 in that post.

This fits well into the pattern that you showed in July 2010. I keep telling you that there will be daily announcements of new features for the next six weeks, and on the first two weeks your replies can be summarized to as "That's all?"

For someone who values our work, you have a unique way of expressing your appreciation.

I have no trouble if you have a different opinion. I have no trouble if you say "I'm sorry, this new update isn't my cup of tea. You worked a lot, but the result doesn't convince me, I would rather like X."

But that's not the way you come across. You basically neglect what's on the table, point to a more or less obscure element that is missing, and in blissful ignorance of the amount of work that was put into the heap of new stuff you just point out that something that you didn't bother to mention in the last months as in urgent need of an overhaul is somehow missing. You imply that way that everything else is worthless, and then you act surprised if, after years of that pattern, I finally have enough of it, and start talking about that you deserve to be treated with respect because you paid money (and received a game in return, which, despite being apparently worthless and awful, was somehow good enough to justify buying an upgrade or two). And we're supposed to appreciate your mere presence in this forum as a sign of your benevolence and support for the community.

Yes, you are welcome to express your opinion. You are welcome to criticize. Nobody was ever banned from this forum for writing a negative opinion of SB Pro. What I cannot accept however is the dismissal of the team's collective effort, ignorance about answers given repeatedly in the past, ignorance about the economic conditions under which we are making SB Pro PE, and wallowing in victimization as soon as someone calls you out on this.

I don't demand reverence. I don't demand that the members of this community tow a certain party line. I can accept if someone gets angry and starts to call me names on occasion, as long as it doesn't become habitual. But I get territorial and aggressive if someone dismisses the team's effort just because his imagination about the amount of work that is involved is too limited to appreciate our offer. There's a world of difference between:

"Why do we get a 3D interior while the outside view of the Leo 1 is still ugly? As a paying customer, I demand an answer!"

and

"The new interior of the Leopard looks like it took a lot of effort to make. I hope that it'll get a visual facelift in the upgrade after next to do the 3D interior more justice".

Would it really be so hard?

This is the last i have to say about it,

Sometimes maybe i have been somewhat to negative but i think its unfair to present me as the Steel beasts forum devil and troll here. You make it seem as if though my major mission was to present every post with negative comments and was out to get ESIM dev team itself. Its easy to sum up someones negative comments and dissregard all the positive ones.

For example you turn my words around , i never made this comment ; "Why do we get a 3D interior while the outside view of the Leo 1 is still ugly? As a paying customer, I demand an answer"

It was much more friendly ; "The leo 1 interieur is great , its just to bad that the external view of the leo 1 didnt get a face-lift allong with it . The tracer rounds for the 40 mm need no update for 2.6 since all of them are round allready"

And this was the question that started the whole thing ; "why give the leo 1 such a great 3-d interieur and leave the external model totally intouched? i mean it hasent seen any facelifts since sbp first came out and the model looks outdated with all the new stuff now."

As you can see it looks a lot more of the desired example that you yourself gave in this post and there was a smiley behind it indicating that i was trying to be sarcastic ,and as you know i could not have edited it since the thread where i made the comment was locked. I,m sure i can find many other examples were you claim i am mister negative himself but i mean comeon? Is this really what this is going to? I dont want to claim that i am a saint but i,m just trying to tell you that you are over exaggerating. Sure i can be negative but i feel i just dont deserve this . I,m sure there are many members of this community who can tell you i,m not such an XXXhole that you seem to describe. So please stop this personall crusade and let me await the update allready so we can ALL play online and forget about this hole damn thing.

[SeanPatrick]

forget about this hole damn thing.

Amen.

[oscar19681]

Amen.

Well that seems to be the best solution doesnt it?

[Ssnake]

I may have overreacted a little.

[oscar19681]

I may have overreacted a little.

Well like i said i,m no saint in the matter either . So how about we come to a cease fire and i put a lid on any overly negative comment in the future . Its about tank simulation in the end and i dont see any reason why we should keep on fighting like 2 little children. You see i,m not really a bad guy when it comes down to it.

[Volcano]

You would be surprised how an issue would die if you just simply stop posting about it.

[Ssnake]

Ahem.

[oscar19681]

You would be surprised how an issue would die if you just simply stop posting about it.

I did at first but the discussion was picked up and continued by others...

[oscar19681]

Ahem.

??

[Gibsonm]

I think Ssnake was trying to prompt Volcano to let the whole thing slide and be forgotten (not potentially stir things up again).

I understand there is "expectation tension" on the customer side and no doubt "developer fatigue" on the other but surely we can just draw a line under this thing (in the various threads it seems to have spread to)?

[oscar19681]

I think Ssnake was trying to prompt Volcano to let the whole thing slide and be forgotten (not potentially stir things up again).

I understand there is "expectation tension" on the customer side and no doubt "developer fatigue" on the other but surely we can just draw a line under this thing (in the various threads it seems to have spread to)?

Well at least i was man enought to offer a peacefull solution..... It would only be polite ,proffesional and in the best interrest for this community for BOTH of us to embrace it . But i dont even get a response and it has to go both ways.

Well cant say i didnt try!

[Gibsonm]

And those sorts of comments (wanting to have the "final" say) are exactly what is stopping this from ending.

I regret now trying to offer an explanation and will no longer post here as any post seems to provide more fuel for the fire.

[Koen]

see, what is happening, is that we're all a bit exited

because:

* this Great sim exists now for 10 years, ten ! that is an achievement

* and even more, a big leap forward will be made now with 2.6

that is what matters, that is what counts, let the focus be on that

(and rising emotions are understandable in this context)

very glad that SB came this far

thx to all who participated in its making (directly, or indirectly)

grtz, K

[JohnO]

Hey we all need a group hug :smilelove-1: