How to promote the SB product

[Ssnake]

Well, price is one part of the equation, the other is (perceived) value. There is no objective metric for value, it really lies in the eyes of the beholder. Is a Ferrari valuable? It depends... if you need a ship, it is not. If you need to haul furniture, it is worthless. If you want to hook a broad with extreme bling affinity, it's priceless.

Every item's value depends on what the individual person would be willing to pay for, and that totally depends on the person's preferences - not on the amount of money that he's making every month.

[Guest HAVOC131]

Just for the record, the selling price of your product wasn't the topic. It was how to promote it by informing the potential civilian customers of all its features, capabilities and future direction of this simulator for which the current web interface lacks. Nothing more nothing less. Surely I am not the only one when deciding to purchase something, looks for this kind of data am I? Yes your the best tank sim around but also the only, for now. At some point your going to have to say why and doing this now would help your sales. Look all I'm saying is I like to fly the DCS line of simulators, car sims, subs, hell I own all of them I think, but times are tight for most and people are thinking more about the value of what they buy. You have a great value with this sim but you have to own it to see most of it and even that can take some time to figure out. Knowing what I know now about this sim I would've paid even more for it but it didn't start that way.

[GaryOwen]

Just for the record, the selling price of your product wasn't the topic. It was how to promote it by informing the potential civilian customers of all its features, capabilities and future direction of this simulator for which the current web interface lacks. Nothing more nothing less.

You're not giving Ssnake the credit he deserves. He's actually rather clever with his marketing. Perceptions of quality are highly dependent on pricing. In an odd way, it's true that you get what you pay for. For instance, all other things -including actual taste- being equal, it is measureably more pleasing to drink wine that is priced at $125 a bottle rather than $60 a bottle.

http://www.stanford.edu/group/knowledgebase/cgi-bin/2010/07/08/does-a-wines-pricetag-affect-its-taste/

The high initial price could itself be considered a positive feature.

[Bekro]

Obviously there is no competition in the market so as a natural monopoly you are the one to decide the price.however the problem is how to expand your market to the new customers.A natural suggestion would be value adding,however there are many things to decide before such as overall strategy of company, resources and so on.

[Ssnake]

... Knowing what I know now about this sim I would've paid even more for it but it didn't start that way.

So, what did you learn in the past weeks/months from actually playing SB Pro PE that you didn't know before ... and which would have instantly turned your opinion in SB Pro's favor at a point when you had heard about SB but initially rejected it because you didn't know what to expect from it?

And while we are at it, what made you change your mind without even knowing in full what would await you with SB Pro?

[Guest HAVOC131]

Ok, but first lets look at what you have at this pont under game info.

SB Pro PE Features List:

Originally created as a pure tank sim, Steel Beasts has since expanded into a more complete representation of mobile armored warfare with the emphasis being placed on tactics and emersion.

It is possible to 'play' these tanks as either the Gunner, Driver, or the TC, thereby taking direct control of all the systems in your endeavor to do maximum damage to the enemy. The Gunner and TC positions within these tanks are highly accurate and taken from real world vehicles in almost every way. Many of these vehicles have very detailed interior views to increase your immersion. The drivers position is more generic and less detailed, but does allow for for the user to get a feel for it. In multiplayer sessions, each of these 3 positions may be manned by human players. These digital tanks were designed with direct input from professional soldiers recalling their experience on real world tanks and were completed with particular attention to detail. You may also guide these tanks from a third person view, allowing the AI 'crew' to fight the tank while still maintaining personal control of its exact position. Also, all tanks can be fitted with mine plows or mine rollers.

Troops (West Block and East Block) -

Each of the 'partially playable' vehicles allow for guiding the vehicles from a third person point of view. The AI then takes over the brunt of target identification and firing. You may also help them 'notice' enemy units via certain joystick/keyboard commands. So vehicles are not totally in the hands of the AI.

But maybe you're more of a strategic sort who would rather leave the actual fighting to the grunts? Steel Beasts allows for this too. It is entirely possible (and sometimes necessary) to play an entire game from the map. The map is not only a valuable resource in figuring out where you are on the battlefield, it is also functions as a tactical interface for every unit under your control. From the map you will issue commands and design the routes that will lead your forces to battlefield supremacy (or to becoming burned out hulks). Route types such as Engage, Assault, and Scout all cause the units to perform specific tasks. Such things as varying the speed, fire control orders, and formation are built in in order to tweak all route types to just the thing you need to aid any unit to battlefield survival.

So with out going into a list of things missing I will just point out a few. Oh and I know about the "list" and patch notes but its not apart of main website....

1. FO support and all that you can do with it. Huge for me as I was an FO.

2. Re-supply, Fuel and ammo.

3. Vehicle Repair

4. UAV's

5. All the great things you can do with the mision editor, Date, Time, Sky, Luminosity, trigger points etc. This one here could go on for a page..

6. The types of ammo, missiles, grenades and smoke you can use.

7. Infantry and all the weapons you have to equip them with.

8. The different types of optics for the weapon systems and UAV's

9.

I could go on but I will stop here. Ssnake, I bet that all of us here could build this as a team collectively, with out any or little cost to you if you wanted to. I'm sure others would love to help show this great product off! Please, I understand its hard to read into someone's intent over the net but I mean no disrespect, Hell I've been with you from the first SB and want nothing but good things to happen here. I wont drag this on any more so in short it's just an observation by a SB fan. Besides the more money your company gets the better the chances are that we get the next update and a even better product! Have a great weekend, HAVOC out.

[Ssnake]

1. FO support and all that you can do with it. Huge for me as I was an FO.

...but wouldn't that be promising more than it actually delivers?

At best we currently have an "FO lite" implementation - you, of all, would know best.

2. Re-supply, Fuel and ammo.

3. Vehicle Repair

4. UAV's

5. All the great things you can do with the mision editor, Date, Time, Sky, Luminosity, trigger points etc. This one here could go on for a page..

6. The types of ammo, missiles, grenades and smoke you can use.

7. Infantry and all the weapons you have to equip them with.

8. The different types of optics for the weapon systems and UAV's

I suppose we could add these items, yes. But it's hard to remain concise by listing everything, and if you make the reader tired before he has found "his" specific hot button, being elaborate can be a disadvantage, actually.

[Guest HAVOC131]

If your customer target is the arcade shooter with little to no military experience or understanding of how to take a military objective, than yes it would bore them. However this is not that kind of game, its a modern tank simulator and even the smallest details like what type of ammo to equip your troops with can mean defeating your enemy or being defeated by them. All of this can be packaged in a very appealing format that would allow the potential customer the ability to see most if not all of this sims capabilities. Case in point, this "List" that everyone keeps referring to, is a need or a want by the users and was created due to the lack of one. Hail the list......

[Ssnake]

"The List" has become a meme of it's own. It's a reference to all features that may ever be added to SB Pro, one day.

[Hedgehog]

"The List" has become a meme of it's own. It's a reference to all features that may ever be added to SB Pro, one day.

**All Hail the_List!!**

:biggrin:

[RogueSnake79]

I think some of the original intent of the SB wiki page was to accomplish in many respects what you desire. And the difficulty of the task is reflected in the amount of time, effort, and state in which it currently stands.

It is far from complete, even with the contribution of countless hours by several of our members. Of course, it is far from just a list of game features. More an "uber" online field manual.

But my reasoning for plugging the wiki page here should be clear. It is the "constantly updated" document. And I have to say I agree with Nils 100% regarding using what would be a several page document describing the "full features" of steelbeast pro as an advertisement. To me, a features list is like the introduction in the first pages of a book. Never intended to describe in grand detail the subject, only highlight it.

If a summary of some of the sims more attractive features is not enough, then an essay will have no effect in changing the minds of these people. People who would spend the time to learn the tactics, and learn to employ the features of Pro need no such list. Because they will have interest enough to discover the wiki page, and read. You can lead a horse to water....etc.

Now, if there were to be a competing product its a different story all together. Such a list in this scenario would hold greater value. You would want to show why they suck, and you don't. Defining the deference's of similar things can get complicated quick.

Of course these are only my opinions. And in no way am I attempting to curb your enthusiasm for creating such a list. I only post to reinforce what Ssnake has said. He, like all the other members of the team are quite busy. That fact that he takes the time to post as often as he does, and in such length(jab intended) requires a monk like dedication.

Creating this list can in no way be a bad thing. And if you do it, you will be doing a service to the community, and to some potential buyers. I just think we are better served if this is a community project.

[tarball]

You're not giving Ssnake the credit he deserves. He's actually rather clever with his marketing. Perceptions of quality are highly dependent on pricing. In an odd way, it's true that you get what you pay for. For instance, all other things -including actual taste- being equal, it is measureably more pleasing to drink wine that is priced at $125 a bottle rather than $60 a bottle.

http://www.stanford.edu/group/knowledgebase/cgi-bin/2010/07/08/does-a-wines-pricetag-affect-its-taste/

The high initial price could itself be considered a positive feature.

Aside from paying the creators for their value-added, I've always thought of SB Pro PE's high sticker price (which is increasingly not that high considering other "serious games" products out there, and considering the rolling tide of inflation) as the "country club effect."

The price of admission is high to keep out the riff raff.

As such it would seem that this strategy is perhaps 90% effective... However, the 10% have definitely paid the price of admission too. Still, 90% is still an "A" in this part of the world.

[Homer]

Havoc,

I've been down that road too. Over the years, I've tried selling my friends on SB by using a brochure method among various other schemes. I discovered it's next to impossible to convince someone to appreciate the sim on the same level as I do, unless they already did but didn't know SB existed. I wasted a lot of time and energy. However, I did learn a simpler way of pimpin SB.

Nowadays, I just show them a couple of youtube vids and ask if they would like to play it. The evolution of SB has progressed to where the CD is downloadable and a single license owner can "share" his copy over the net, allowing a friend to play SB without a dongle. This way proved to be more effective than what I did in the past. Let SB speak for itself...

[Grenny]

"The List" has become a meme of it's own. It's a reference to all features that may ever be added to SB Pro, one day.

We all have to worship the List, and countless rodents must be sacrificed to apease the mighty List!!

*All hail the List* ;-)

[colin]

I am playing WOT mostly right now as it's all I have time for and with 2 busy kids I am short of working brian cells lately. I make a point of mentioning SB to anyone who complains WOT is not realistic enough. I also find the SB tank range good practice for WOT. My hope is that games like WOT will get people wanting to play tank related games and increase the number of people who are interested in SB.

I suggest you make a video where the thrust is that the hated T-54 becomes the hunted by a Leopard 2. Not sure how you can do it without breaking copyright. I think building on the WOT buzz and attracting players who want more realism is a good way to go.

[Gibsonm]

I'd be tempted to suggest using the Dutch video as a template.

[Furia]

I think youtube videos are the best way to promote the sim.

Myself learned about Steel Beasts pro Pe through such videos and some of our colleagues got interested on the sim after watching them.

some of the most atractive and interesting SB Pro Pe videos I have seen are made by the German comunity but since they are in german, this limits a bit the scope of people that can understand them other than to enjoy the excellent footage and images.

This is the video that got me into Steel Beasts. THANK YOU DASKAL!!!

T7GRekITfRc

And some of the german comunity videos such this one, but in English :biggrin: would surely help to interest more people.

3-eM9OjbJGM

Also the excellent series of videos of Brave Riffles Campaing, are an excellent tool to let the people know what it is SB Pro Pe about.

Watching this videos will surely hook anyone that has any interest in armour warfare. :biggrin:

KMi0n_aQKCw

Awesome video!!, Just missing one video like this but making full exploit of the vehicles with full interiors like the Leos, Cv-90, Centaruro, Pizarros and so.

[Marko]

I would have to agree with you.

It was Youtube that got me back in to the beast.

You cant beat a good demo video as a promotional tool.

[Bat]

Skybird is a member here. I used to play sub sims but that was a long time ago.

You the Homer that was a member of Seawolves?

[Homer]

You the Homer that was a member of Seawolves?

Does he owe you money, or caused any physical or mental injury as the result of following his advice (which probably sounded perfectly reasonable at the time)?

:navy:

[Hedgehog]

Avast!

Ye Landlubbers!

:biggrin:

[Guest HAVOC131]

Hey great things did come from this topic after all!

[ottoramsaig]

SB needs system Engineering to promote their product to the US Government and the public. I have seen a lot of government contracts fall through due to the contractor not able to show the life span or overall product performance. Concidering that the US Military continues to use outdate expensive simulators that require constant maintenance. SB of course would be a home run. The joy I would have experienced from watching my crew paractice gunnery skills with nothing more than a lap top with joystick.

Edited June 11, 2011 by ottoramsaig
added

[Hedgehog]

The joy I would have experienced from watching my crew paractice gunnery skills with nothing more than a lap top with joystick.

Plus, you could discipline the crew without banging your elbow on the turret wall. :biggrin:

Not that you do that of course, I'm sure a piece of advice is more productive.

[Guest HAVOC131]

I would like to bring other tankers on this discussion we are having on the DCS website to help with the questions they have. I'm TDY often now and unable to provide timely responses and think its a great way to share what this sim can do. They are a great group of guys and have been very helpful to me when I needed it. Thanks for the help, HAVOC out.

Here is the link:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=72224