Chally 2

[Ssnake]

... is the Commanders independent viewer being modelled? I read somewhere that in lineup with the gun you can import the TOGS picture onto it.

To be honest, I don't know. I haven't yet played around with the Challenger too much. But I think that the gunner's sight can be replicated in the commander's peri view.

[mpow66m]

the day sight looks like a Eotech RDS.:biggrin:

[Stuart666]

To be honest, I don't know. I haven't yet played around with the Challenger too much. But I think that the gunner's sight can be replicated in the commander's peri view.

Always thought it was a strange idea the MOD didnt produce a thermal viewer for the CIV. I was going through the Thales brochures and noted it was offered as an option. Very odd. I even think the export C2E had one fitted.

[fidelthefallguy]

The MOD always goes for the base model when it comes to AFV's and MBT's the Warrior I drove had a 3 round clip for the 30mm while the Saudi's had a belt fed version on theirs along with a tow launcher, while we had to dismount a fire team with a 94 or Milan to achieve the same results. I think I read some place that the CH1 they had also had a better power pack. maybe E-sims should mod the export versions.

[Stuart666]

The MOD always goes for the base model when it comes to AFV's and MBT's the Warrior I drove had a 3 round clip for the 30mm while the Saudi's had a belt fed version on theirs along with a tow launcher, while we had to dismount a fire team with a 94 or Milan to achieve the same results. I think I read some place that the CH1 they had also had a better power pack. maybe E-sims should mod the export versions.

I think you are thinking of Desert Warrior as sold to the Kuwaitis. That had a complete Bradley turret mounted on a standard Warrior Hull, and is indeed a fine bit of kit. Ive always thought Warrior was quite a good bit of kit, but the lack of a stab for full fire on the move capablity was a silly costcutting exercise.

Challenger2 has a slightly modded version of the Challenger1 engine, but its fitted to a new transmission. I think the Challenger1 the Jordanians got was pretty much bog standard Challenger1, or at least the ones I saw on the trailer going out there looked to be. They were even still in Warminster Sand and Tan.

There is 3 Challenger2 Variants I know of. The British Army version, the Omani Army version (which had a different rear hull, sand filters and what I assume is an NBC pack filter on the side hull which would make fitting uparmour difficult) and the Challenger2E, which never got bought by anyone. I cant remember if that had an MTU engine in it or not (I think it was offered with an MTU engine and Renk transmission), but it had some top quality french optics fitted (including a commanders CIV from Leclerc if I remember right), a loaders 50 Calibre machine gun (rather outmoded by the RWS but still nice to have) and the drivers position had a steering wheel for the driver (the first time one was ever fitted in a British built tank). Its arguably the high water mark of British tank development and a hell of a machine.

Be nice to have all of them, but its not like anyone is ever going to pay for their development in a training scheme. They only built one C2E in any case.

[Damian90]

I think you are thinking of Desert Warrior as sold to the Kuwaitis. That had a complete Bradley turret mounted on a standard Warrior Hull, and is indeed a fine bit of kit.

It is not M2 IFV turret but Delco turret mounted for example on USMC LAV-25.

I think the Challenger1 the Jordanians got was pretty much bog standard Challenger1, or at least the ones I saw on the trailer going out there looked to be.

Some Challenger 1 tanks in Jordanian Army are standard ones, some upgraded with front and side turret armor upgraded (even thickened), TOGS was deleted and new integrated day/thermal sight mounted + new RuAG CTG L50 120mm smoothbore gun mounted + other upgrades.

[Stuart666]

It is not M2 IFV turret but Delco turret mounted for example on USMC LAV-25.

Some Challenger 1 tanks in Jordanian Army are standard ones, some upgraded with front and side turret armor upgraded (even thickened), TOGS was deleted and new integrated day/thermal sight mounted + new RuAG CTG L50 120mm smoothbore gun mounted + other upgrades.

I stand corrected, quite right too. I didnt know they had an option to fit TOW.

The majority seem to still be Challenger1 standard spec, or at least last I looked. There was some on Tanknet a while back (in the rather snazzy digital cammo) that had some local spec radio sets (presumably command) but otherwise looked as standard.

There has been a version demonstrated at a trade show with the old turret and a 120mm smoothbore, which also has aplique to the turret front. They also seem to have demonstrated whats best described as an external gun turret, also mounting a smoothbore. But the latter I dont think was built in any numbers due to some kind of accuracy problem, and as for the standard turret conversion Ive not heard of large numbers being converted. Not much point after they signed the peace treaty with Israel. For plinking Syrian T55s it would be more than adequate.

That was all Jordanian Mods, which is quite impressive considering what a lousy job we have made of keeping Challenger1 and 2 up to date.

[Damian90]

Jordanian Challenger 1 upgrade with new sights and RuAG CTG L50 120mm smoothbore gun + some up-armor.

[scowlmovement]

the current AI-only Challenger is modelled with the early, weak gun the Brits were experimenting with, right? Will the playable Chally in the next upgrade come in versions with upgraded guns? It has a thick skin right now, but it really needs an adequate fang. It makes me smile whenever I use Challengers in some scenarios where I replace existing AI MBTs with Challys, that althpough they do not get easily destroyed and stubbornly hold out when under fire they nevertheless see T80s and T72s racing by or overrolling them because their light guns can't kill them in time. They hit them for sure, yes - but too often not for killing effect until they are ridiculously close. The hit targets simply roll on at distances where a Leo2 or Abrams already would have pierced them to death.

I have not compared it, but it seems to me their gun is even weaker than the 105mm of the Leo-1 right now. Give the Challenger some fangs!

Uh...aiming for the frontal arc is never a good idea these days. I've seen the Challenger hit and KILL T-80 and T-72 @ 1000m in SB with a flank shot.

[Stuart666]

Jordanian Challenger 1 upgrade with new sights and RuAG CTG L50 120mm smoothbore gun + some up-armor.

Got any numbers on how many they have converted?

[CR2_Commander]

Ahh..., I get it, so the thermal sight is like the M1A1 with an additional, individual process of laying the gun, and the day sight is like the leopard, also with the separate laying process and (according to the control stick), without the process of individually applying lead.

Hi all, being my first post and all,

There is no need to lay on to any target once the target has been lased. The FCP does it for you. All we have to do as a gunner ( or commander if we get bored) is to keep the aiming point on the centre of mass and the computer compensated for any movement of the turret/ hull and tracking of the target ie the faster we traverse the more lead the computer applies for us.

With reference the floating Ballistic Aiming Mark in thermal, it can be a pain in the bum for new gunners, however to simply stop the floating BAM, we simply degrade the system to reversionary level 1, which is a no no unless something is wrong but works perfectly well! Basically its a point and shoot system.

Hope this helps with any enquiries.

[jazjar]

Thank you, but on that photo on the AFVsims website, ( of the challenger 2 gunner's handle ), what is the A/LAY button there for?

[IrishHussar]

Nice to see you aboard matey. Which Regt are you with??

[CR2_Commander]

Nice to see you aboard matey. Which Regt are you with??

Evening! I have the honour of wearing the 'Pink' Pants!

Aided lay is basically fine tuning of your traverse as you track a target. Track your target, hit aided lay then fine adjust if you need it. It takes out some sensitivity from the thumb controller

[IrishHussar]

Ah Gotcha we have your CO and command team up at my place taking part in 12 Bde CAST at present.

Irish

[CR2_Commander]

Lucky them! im so glad im on a course otherwise no doubt i would have joined them up there. Cant be any worse than Warminster

[Damian90]

Got any numbers on how many they have converted?

Nope.

[Ssnake]

Aided lay is basically fine tuning of your traverse as you track a target. Track your target, hit aided lay then fine adjust if you need it. It takes out some sensitivity from the thumb controller

So it's some sort of an integrator that creates a moving average of steering impulses that are then laid over the basic traverse rate of the turret?

[jazjar]

Aha, so it does not stand for autolay, it just lets you track a moving target without the use of that annoying thumbstick? Hmm.. firing procedure for the daysight sounds almost the same as M1A2 then.

[Ssnake]

Aha, so it does not stand for autolay, it just lets you track a moving target without the use of that annoying thumbstick?

No - still with the thumb controller, just with more precision, if I understood it right. Instead of directly controlling the turret rotation, the integration will let you make only smaller corrections to a baseline of the rotation movement. The Leopard 2 commander's peri (which is also controlled with a piezo-electric thumb stick, similar to a coolie hat) has also a separate "Integrator" switch that does this; it's not modeled in SB Pro since one doesn't need it. A normal mouse or joystick gives enough fine control already.

[IrishHussar]

Lucky them! im so glad im on a course otherwise no doubt i would have joined them up there. Cant be any worse than Warminster

I may also be working there in Sep, just waiting for confirmation good luck on your course. When I did my Commanders course back in 91 it was a bit of a pissup. Good drills considering we were just out of the desert LOL

Irish

[jazjar]

O.K, so the system is like in the Leclerc, in which you hold the laser button down for a couple of seconds while tracking and then let go and the turret tracks by itself ( Kotsch88.de, awesome website! ), however, in the Chally 2, you use a different button and are able to make fine adjustments to your lead solution using the thumbstick. Hmm.. I wonder if SB will model it?

[Ssnake]

Why should we model this, given that mouse and joystick give the player sufficient fine control. This method in the Challenger is the equivalent to a wheelchair to make up for the handicap of an input device that doesn't allow for such fine control.

A model, after all, is a simplified representation of reality. Notice the "simplified" bit.

[jazjar]

Aha, I see.

[CR2_Commander]

Why should we model this, given that mouse and joystick give the player sufficient fine control. This method in the Challenger is the equivalent to a wheelchair to make up for the handicap of an input device that doesn't allow for such fine control.

A model, after all, is a simplified representation of reality. Notice the "simplified" bit.

The input device is fine, the aided lay is there purely to aid you if required. Once you are used to the pressure pad it is very good and easy to use, negating the use of aided lay. Although we are taught to use it during our gunners course.