jazjar Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I have been through U.S and Soviet manuals about AFV doctrine. I have read hordes of info about how to employ a platoon, battalion, whatever, but I haven't found anything, in Steelbeasts, or elsewhere about Spanish AFV tactics. I am now espacially interested in this because of the three rather recent Spanish additions to Steelbeasts, the Centauro, the Pizzaro, and the Leopardo. I get that the Spanish deploy in platoons of four like the United States does, but is that supposed to mean that they employ their AFVs like us as well. The section in the back of the Pizzaro manual , "organization" was very helpful, but still left a lot of unanswered questions. For example, ( this is my "official" questions list )1. What sort of enemy is the Spanish Army AFV fleet supposed to be able to defeat/handle?2. What is the true purpose of the Centauro wheeled tank destroyer in a country whose enemies don't field tanks? ( At least I don't think so )3. Why in the world do you need the incredibly badass Leopardo 2E, an exported Leopard 2A6 when other countries, like Italy, just independently develop their own indeginous heavy armor?That's all my Q's for now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 3. Why in the world do you need the incredibly badass Leopardo 2E, an exported Leopard 2A6 when other countries, like Italy, just independently develop their own indeginous heavy armor?That's all my Q's for now.Can't really comment on Spanish doctrine and employment of AFV.However as for Q3, the simple answer is an "off the shelf" solution (even if tweaked a bit) is usually a lot cheaper than starting from scratch.Unless you have unique requirements (see Swedish S Tank or IDF Merkava) usually its far better to buy vehicles already coming off someone else's production line (e.g. T-72, or Leopard, or M1) or refurbished ones (say ourselves and M1).Someone else has done the R&D and committed the heavy industrial capacity, they are usually field tested and in many cases third party countries also thought they were value for money and "near enough" to their requirements and have bought them too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted July 22, 2011 Members Share Posted July 22, 2011 Strictly private opinion/observation:There simply was no company in Spain with the experience to build heavy armored vehicles. Santa Bárbara Sistemas (SBS) built only light armored vehicles (e.g. the VEC and its PC derivative, the BMR) and performed some maintenance work on the tank fleet (mostly M60 and AMX-30, I think).The decision was made by the Spanish administration that they wanted to expand the industrial know-how and to license-manufacture a new MBT. At that point the Krauss-Maffei offer for Leopard 2 license production was considered the best offer (along with the leasing of 2nd hand Leopard 2A4 to help get the crew training started). At that point SBS was still an independent company.Later it was acquired by General Dynamics (and is now known as GD-SBS). Had the Spanish government waited to seeking a tank license-produced in Spain after that point, the Spanish Army today would probably drive in M1s (partly because GD would probably have been able to make a more attractive offer, partly because KMW would probably never have allowed a license production (with the associtaed exposure of manufacturing know-how) to a company already owned by one of their biggest competitors).At the core however the decision to acquire a new, heavy MBT was made partly because the tank fleet needed to be modernized anyway, but the dominant motivation was probably to develop the industrial know-how and capabilities. Whether the tanks are needed is an open question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazjar Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Interesting... One more thing, do the Spanish deploy their armor in companies of 14 tanks with three tank platoons and four tanks to a platoon with an XO and a CO, or do they just have the CO? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[EDM]Lipe Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 ...There simply was no company in Spain with the experience to build heavy armored vehicles. Santa Bárbara Sistemas (SBS) built only light armored vehicles (e.g. the VEC and its PC derivative, the BMR)...Hola buenas.Perdona que te corrija en este aspecto, pero creo que tienes un pequeño error de concepto, ya que, el VEC es derivado del BMR, y no al revésHello.Sorry to correct you on this, but I think it's a little misconception, since the VEC is derived from the BMR, and not vice versaSorry for my bad english. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furia Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 1. What sort of enemy is the Spanish Army AFV fleet supposed to be able to defeat/handle? 2. What is the true purpose of the Centauro wheeled tank destroyer in a country whose enemies don't field tanks? ( At least I don't think so ) 3. Why in the world do you need the incredibly badass Leopardo 2E, an exported Leopard 2A6 when other countries, like Italy, just independently develop their own indeginous heavy armor? That's all my Q's for now. This are our some of our neighbours. Some of the armour avalaible on those countries: Morroco T-72BV Morroco M-60A3TTS Argelia T-90 More infor about the Spanish Army HERE Enjoy C34ffo0149A 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scowlmovement Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 I have been through U.S and Soviet manuals about AFV doctrine. I have read hordes of info about how to employ a platoon, battalion, whatever, but I haven't found anything, in Steelbeasts, or elsewhere about Spanish AFV tactics. I am now espacially interested in this because of the three rather recent Spanish additions to Steelbeasts, the Centauro, the Pizzaro, and the Leopardo. I get that the Spanish deploy in platoons of four like the United States does, but is that supposed to mean that they employ their AFVs like us as well. The section in the back of the Pizzaro manual , "organization" was very helpful, but still left a lot of unanswered questions. For example, ( this is my "official" questions list )1. What sort of enemy is the Spanish Army AFV fleet supposed to be able to defeat/handle?2. What is the true purpose of the Centauro wheeled tank destroyer in a country whose enemies don't field tanks? ( At least I don't think so )3. Why in the world do you need the incredibly badass Leopardo 2E, an exported Leopard 2A6 when other countries, like Italy, just independently develop their own indeginous heavy armor?That's all my Q's for now.I suspect that the Centauro might be used in the same manner that the US Army uses the Mobile Gun System-not necessarily in the anti-armor role, but maybe in a manner more associated with supporting infantry in close terrain (i.e., blowing holes in walls, eliminating sniper nests, etc), where a tank may not fit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted August 15, 2011 Members Share Posted August 15, 2011 First and foremost, it's a reconnaissance vehicle though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Tanks in the Spanish ArmyAccording to this article, they were procured to replace their AMX-30EM2s. It's not clear what role they serve in the Spanish Army. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brun Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 In Sb the Centaro is my favorite vehicle for recon purposes. Having the choice to destroy enemy vehicles traditionaly by calling artillery or to shoot and scoot adds tremendous flexability. It is great to have a cannon on hand to mop up what the artillery does not knock out, and it frees up atrillery tubes for other work. Often in online games it is used to fight side by side with heavy tanks. It works ok till you get hit once. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scowlmovement Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Interesting. Maybe it could be the "hunter" in a hunter/killer team? It certainly could be effective in killing off the OPFOR recon, with that 105mm gun.:diable: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furia Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 In the Spanish Army the Centauro has the designation as VRC (Vehiculo Reconocimiento Caballeria) that is Cavalry's Reconnaissance Vehicle. Thye Centauro units are assigned to Cavalry Squadrons instead armour regiments and also our Legion have them in their Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron. So it si clear that the Centauro role in the Spanish Army is Cavalry Reconnaissance. But with a big punch :biggrin: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKM Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 It'll certainly win the counter-reconnaissance battle (killing the other guy's recce assets). I don't see BRM-1K standing up to that 105mm very well. Was the Spanish Centauro updated with new sensors, like a optronics mast or a ground surveillance radar to fill the recce role, or is it acting as a heavy armoured car protecting lighter scout cars? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scowlmovement Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Hola, Furia! Como estas? I knew there were some Spaniards lurking on these forums who could help answer these burning questions. So, Centauro appears to be tasked in the traditional cavalry role (reconnaissance and security missions)? I realized that you may not be able to reveal much, but is this a safe assumption? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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