Captain_Colossus Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I will also add another factor: be aware of hype.After ODS, you may have heard terms like 'silver bullet' when referring to dU ammunition fired, or other subjective terms that came out making believe that tanks were virtually immune to anything. There were contested claims of the effectiveness of Patriot missile batteries in that it may be true they didn't intercept any falling SCUDs at all, but they merely hit pieces of them as they were breaking up coming down, also the notion that it seems that the Iraqi Army was essentially defeated by smart weaponry from the air seems to be a longstanding myth.Much of this is may be due to the fact that ODS was a heavily censored war, official information or media reports which were screened by sensors might have looked better, or certain facts of the events were either ignored or suppressed while giving an overall impression of overwhelmingly positive respects- which it mostly was given the lopsided results, however, some battles were a bit dirtier or a lot less textbook than the public truly got a glimpse of. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted August 25, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 25, 2011 Volcano I think you did the best job of explaining the real life gun performance to us. Bravo, anyways, A smoothbore gun in Steelbeasts, or al least my copy could not acheive this. My gunnery skills are good. I always have a still reticle when I fire, and dump lead on stationary targets in the Abrams. Still, the important thing is, my smoothbores can barely hit inside of 3.5 meters ( t-72) at 1500 meters. My tank would fail the octagon test big time. I will try to get a target with the octagon dimensions and perform some tests with that.Ok, so just so I am tracking...:At 1500m, your shots are dispersing 3.5 meters wide to where you can barely hit inside that area at that range? I just don't see how that is happening to be honest. Personally, it is difficult for me to put a round on target each time in 3.5m area at say... 3500m yes.See attached image. The green line below the tank is 3.5 meter wide at 1500m. But firing 12 rounds at that range generally puts the rounds around in the inner circle of that reticle. There is an occasional outlier of course, but for the most part it is inside the circle.If you see something different, then you might want to video it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazjar Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 I am very aware of hype , thank you very much, and I think that something may just be plain wrong with my copy of SB. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazjar Posted August 25, 2011 Author Share Posted August 25, 2011 O.k thanks volcano, I will do some tests within the Mission Editor and see if I can get those results you described. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Colossus Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 I am very aware of hype , thank you very much, and I think that something may just be plain wrong with my copy of SB.Right, it has to be that. Never mind what something like that would entail, never mind that would imply that you bought got a special copy from a different source than what the rest of the commercial market gets, your copy has code in it that wasn't ready for release yet.I'm telling you now it's not your copy. I can experience the same thing you describe. The rounds don't fly laser straight in mine, either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazjar Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 Whoa, Whoa, Whoa Colossus, I'm not that type of person you're describing me as, however, I am simply having troubles with my legally purchased copy of SB that no one else seems to have, and I'm perfectly willing to patiently work it out with the help of this Five-star community.Anyways, test results. Range used: Tutorial.ter, same location as gunnery training, with very little smoke after each shot fogging up my gunsight (daysight used ). Target used: T-80U at 1500m, then "decapitated" T-80U hull after first shot ( can't beat the M829A2! ) Unit of measurement: Inner circle in the M1's daysight reticle. Any shot inside is normal and any shot outside is an outlier. Ammunition: 13 M829A2 sabots, 5 M830 HEAT rounds results: Sabot, Five Outlier shots, and eight normal shots, with most of them being on the very edge/border of the circle. Heat, all normal with an almost central hit on all five rounds. Comments: I may not be the best of gunners, but I have been shooting up T-72s and T-80s for almost a year now and have a very steady hand when shooting. I made sure and dumped lead and kept the same lase for all of my shots.If you want another test in video or just another plain test, please PM or write in the forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazjar Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 O.k, I'm doing the whole repeated trials thing, so I'll post more written results. circumstances: exactly the same as before What's different? results, here they are: 8 outlier hits on the sabots, HEATs all normal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabot_ready Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 But did you hit the target on the first round?Are you set up for multiplayer? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazjar Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 nope. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted August 26, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 26, 2011 O.k thanks volcano, I will do some tests within the Mission Editor and see if I can get those results you described.BTW, I meant to say that I was using M829A1, the default ammo, and typically we use M829A2 in mutliplayer. If you are using M829, you may or may not see a greater amount of dispersion as I am sure velocity has something to do with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazjar Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 I was using M829A2 in my tests, I have it listed in the posts above. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted August 26, 2011 Members Share Posted August 26, 2011 I can see nothing wrong in the source code with respect to the M829A2. The standarddeviation is .3 mil (which is an estimate), the same value is used for the M830 (which is wrong, I just noticed ... should be .27 actually). As far as dispersion is concerned, they SHOULD behave the same.Notice that in the M1 the laser measurement area is actually HALF of the green circle. I'll do a few tests myself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted August 26, 2011 Members Share Posted August 26, 2011 Preliminary test results with version 2.599. 1) M829A2, distance approx 1001 +/-1m, fired from M1A1 on boresight panel type 1 (1.50x1.50m wide). Number of shots: 24No. of impacts less than .25 mil from center: 18Largest deviation: -.25 mil (left)/ -.35 mil (low)Rough estimate of median: 0/0 mil1) M830, distance approx 1001 +/-1m, fired from M1A1 on boresight panel type 1 (1.50x1.50m wide). Number of shots: 19No. of impacts less than .25 mil from center: 16Largest deviation: +.25 / +.45 milRough estimate of median: +.15/+.1 milBased on this the shot dispersion appears too low. Further analysis will be made. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 ... i sometimes think SB "is to good to us" in the way of ammo dispersion...I'm feeling vindicated!! 8-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted August 26, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 26, 2011 Ah rats!! You are not allowed to change dispersion higher -- it is only acceptable if you make it lower! :biggrin:Great, see what this thread did... :frown: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazjar Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 See what I'm telling you? My whot dispersion is often 3 mils from the center and yours is only .25 in the horizontal and .35 in the vertical! That's a big difference! Correct that, I did some more tests, and I found out my dispersion is not 3 mils, rather it is 1.5 mils left/right and 1,25 mils up/down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted August 26, 2011 Members Share Posted August 26, 2011 Well, everything that the others have been telling you applies as well. There is no discernible reason why the same software with the same parameters should behave differently. How did you measure your new dispersion figures?Methodology is important. How do you KNOW that your dispersion is 1.5 or 1.25 mil? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazjar Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 I was shooting a target at 1500 meters and measured my dispersion with my GPS reticle (m1). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazjar Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 Change those measurement again, was using the wrong part of the reticle to measure. It is now 1.25 Left from the center on a target at 1200 meters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted August 27, 2011 Members Share Posted August 27, 2011 ...and you don't think that the impact flash would obscure the exact hit location, just as you have to record with precision the deviation in elevation and azimuth in a split second? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenny Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 @jazjarSsnake has some more accurate mean: In this case shooting at a boresight panel.A "virtual paper/canvas" target, there you can realy see and measure the difference between aiming point and hit-point (haltepunkt und treffpunkt).http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/17-12-7/ch11.htmTherefor I think that his numbers are more accurate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazjar Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 Yeah I know his numbers are more accurate, but how do I get this in Steelbeasts? Must I enlist in the Army, get MOS 19 M1 Armor Crewman to find out if his numbers check against mine? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12Alfa Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 No, just jump online with us and we shall see, and help you out if there is a issue. It's so easy....:biggrin: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazjar Posted August 27, 2011 Author Share Posted August 27, 2011 How do I do this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabot_ready Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Do you have high speed internet?First step Install Teamspeak 3 found at this link.http://www.teamspeak.com/?page=downloadslet us know when you get this far. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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