Koen Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Hello,JC (from the very interesting Real & Simulated Wars-blog) had the idea to replicate a phase from the grand-tactical/operational war game North German Plain 85 in SB.I helped him a bit with creating the Red side of the battle (scenario will be uploaded here later).JC (aka El_Cacho on this site) is still pondering the best ways for NATO to handle the Red challenge. Any input from you for his battle plan is welcome at:http://kriegsimulation.blogspot.com/2011/10/north-german-plain-85-steel-beasts.html#moreWhat would you do?Cheers, K 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrapper_511 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Oh I am a huge fan of the '85 series. I recognize this map and I've been contemplating for the longest time to create SB scenarios off of my experiences in the HPS games, but the lack of British units in SB always gave me pause. The arrival of the Chally2 to SB is highly welcome in this regard. As far as feedback for NATO, I can't say since I almost always play as WP in the HPS games and have had success against the AI. Can't wait for your download to be available. Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Share Posted October 19, 2011 You mean there is more people here that play HPS/JTS games than just me? Be sure to give Korea '85 a try too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Share Posted October 19, 2011 BTW, not sure if you know this, but on another page in that blog there were people wishing that you could customize the NGP unit strengths on the map to match the engagement from SB. Actually, you can do this with the text editor, but editing the .btl file. If you want to know more, just let me know. BTW, what up with the stock NGP unit graphics but nice modded map graphics? Have you not heard of this place: www.volcanomods.com ??? ...shameless plugs everywhere, I know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrapper_511 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 You know it Volcano, alternative art files and all! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tac Error Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 What to a NATO officer is just a dirt path through a forest is to a Soviet, almost as much of a "road" is as a highway, and therefore just as much as a candidate for a regimental strike sector. If a NATO officer in planning his defense believes that a Soviet unit will be channeled along open valleys because the flanking wooded hills constitute an obstacle "on account of their lack of roads", then he might be in for an unpleasant surprise... :wink: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer_Leader Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) What would you do?This looks like an amazing scenario Koen. I can’t wait until it’s uploaded!Personally, as Blue commander (and an enthusiastic civilian), and compared to current dispositions, I’d be very worried about a feint in the North and a Red main effort through Harderode-Voremberg-Hellwegskamp-Tunderanger and into Hemeln from the South. I’d definitely want screening forces in the vicinity of Harderode with strong mobile reserves in the area of Afferde-Hastenback which could deploy against a Red main effort in the North or South. That would be my initial game plan. Edited October 20, 2011 by Panzer_Leader 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 The saga continues, 2 new instalments about "North German Plain 85 in SB" by JC on his blog:* FRAGO: a very nice write-up !http://kriegsimulation.blogspot.com/2011/10/north-german-plain-85-steel-beasts_30.html#more* The tactical plan: I tend to disagree with the choices that JC made ... but then again, I have preliminary knowledge of what Soviet Tank Regiment 173 will do :-) How would you tackle this tactical vignette ?http://kriegsimulation.blogspot.com/2011/10/north-german-plain-85-steel-beasts_3577.htmlWill upload the scenario later when JC posted his AAR. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Volcano Posted October 30, 2011 Moderators Share Posted October 30, 2011 Very nice! Looking forward to more of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted October 30, 2011 Members Share Posted October 30, 2011 The blog page wouldn't show me the captcha, so I'll have to comment it here. The forest of OP2 is known to locals as the "Ith", a formidable obstacle in reality. Surprisingly steel slopes, densely forested - I don't know to which extent the terrain theme makes forests more difficult to traverse in this scenario, but it should. It would then force the Russkies to rely almost completely on the road network, which should make it relatively economical to guard these passage, e.g. with one Leopard and a Marder platoon per road. This could free up those desperately needed other Leopards to guard the northern approach.Of course, artillery must be on standby to support either approach lane. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 Scenario is uploaded now - thank you Kingtiger, or other admin, for doing this so swiftly.You can test the battleplan of JC (see his blog),or the default plan included in the scenario,or - of course - your own plan.Oh, and you can play the scenario also in single player from the Red side: Network Session / Act as: Host / select the mission (Blue will then run on its preplotted battle-plan)Gives the perspective from the Soviet side ...JC enjoyed the scenario (he will post his AAR later) - hope you may enjoy it too.The forest of OP2 is known to locals as the "Ith", a formidable obstacle in reality. Surprisingly steep slopes, densely forested - I don't know to which extent the terrain theme makes forests more difficult to traverse in this scenario, but it should. That is absolutely the case here ...In fact, Red routes needed plenty of micro-managing to avoid that companies mingle, crash in each other and then block the road ...'t was almost more an exercise in route-management / logistics, than a combat operation :-)So good terrainanalysis is key for Blue.SPOILER:The Red battle-plan is explained in the Red briefing: what they do and why. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manteuffel Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Nice to see a battle arround Hameln. But its the old one. I´ve set up the new housemodels and fixed the streets. So you can take your google-maps to move through the city If you want an update of this give me some days to clean up the area eastwards. At present its under construction (Springe- Bad Münder) I need 3-4 days to finish the area 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 Yes, it's on one of your terrific maps, Manteuffel.Big THX for all your work on this.An update would certainly be looking good.But there is also a (small) chance that the scenario may not function well any more, as a plethora of routes for the red vehicles pass through Coppenbrügge & new houses might hinder them ?So not sure that it's worth the effort for this scenario ?Rgds, K 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted November 1, 2011 Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 Well, there's onloy one way to find out, right?BTW, it seems that recent changes made the vehicles' navigation much more tolerant in the vicinity of small objects like fences and lamp posts, so it may in the end not be that bad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnO Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Thats good news Ssnake, Koen not trying to take anything away from your thread but wanted to say I'm working on a Fulda Gap campaign using an updated map of Haune Valley (GaryOwens) which will be labled Hünfeld map. I just received the topo maps and will start adding the towns on the DDR side of the map. Not to take anything away from GaryOwens map but am adding some roads that are missing on the DDR side.I'm looking on hosting this in January, want to wait until I get 2.6 in December.ok, turning this thread back over to you, sorry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer_Leader Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I played this through twice last night and it was tough. Fantastic job Koen! I don’t want to spoil it for others but it’s certainly a difficult one to pull off without disheartening losses (or it could just be me). I’m going to keep trying until I play it to my satisfaction but it feels to me like robust planning is certainly required; mine may have been a little on the ‘lite’ side before I jumped in. It certainly felt realistic and the way I imagine a Soviet offensive would have played out for NATO during the Cold War or for the Germans during the latter stages of World War Two. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koen Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 Glad you liked it & thx for your feedback, Panzer Leader.My recommandation remains: find the key terrain :-)NB JC keeps building up the tension on his blog: http://kriegsimulation.blogspot.com/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrapper_511 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I wish there were American units in this AO, to this date I'm not familiar with the Leos. However, I would love to play the WP side, namely with the upcoming playability of the T72! I'm sure these Russian tanks make an appearance in this map. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer_Leader Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Hi KoenI've thoroughly enjoyed playing this scenario and wondered whether you have plans to recreate it using a US TOE (I appreciate I can do it myself using the Mission Editor) or developing more scenarios similar in concept to this one? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 (edited) I wish there were American units in this AO, to this date I'm not familiar with the Leos. Well the Mission Editor will let you do this (the file isn't password protected [at least for Blue]). Just change the tank types to M1 and the Mech Inf to Bradleys and you'll get a rough analogue. However, I would love to play the WP side, namely with the upcoming playability of the T72! I'm sure these Russian tanks make an appearance in this map. But then you'd need to script the NATO side wouldn't you. Edited November 8, 2011 by Gibsonm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrapper_511 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Oh, so the map is just that. No units included yet.I wouldn't mind putting M1s on this map if Americans were deployed there in reality. I don't remember Americans in this AO when I played NGP85 and I have pretty good faith that Mr. Tiller didn't include them there for realistic reasons. For this reason anything but would hold little to my imagination. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonm Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Oh, so the map is just that. No units included yet.I wouldn't mind putting M1s on this map if Americans were deployed there in reality. I don't remember Americans in this AO when I played NGP85 and I have pretty good faith that Mr. Tiller didn't include them there for realistic reasons. For this reason anything but would hold little to my imagination. No the scenario file is the map plus units (FRG and Sov). You can however open the file and click on say a Leo2 PL and change it to an M1 PL. Or you can delete everything and start over (make a copy of the file first). The Soviet side has lots of unit scripting so if you wanted to play as Red (with playable T-72) you'd have to delete a lot of this (unless you just want to crew a tank reacting to the scripts and do the gunnery yourself). However Blue isn't scripted at all so if you did play as Red you have to build scripts for Blue (otherwise they will just sit there). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicatt Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I ran this scenario the other night there but got called away just after starting it and I forgot to pause it, so by the time I got back there were just 2 red units left and they were in the centre of Hemeln. There were a lot of blue losses too with only 1 operational leopard left which I used to mop up the last remnents of the red. It was a victory of sorts but a costly one, and I must give it another go and see if I can cut down the losses on the thin blue line 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrapper_511 Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the clarification Gibsonm. I wouldn't mind riding in a vehicle that is scripted. I do it all the time during scenario creation/experimentation. It's very fun watching all the goings on from a (edit sp)trail cam. It's even more awesome watching it from a cupola. Edited November 9, 2011 by Scrapper_511 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted November 8, 2011 Members Share Posted November 8, 2011 Speaking of the Scenario Test mode - version 2.6 will give you a free-floating camera there. Observe the battle from any position you like.Ideal for FRAPS directors and camera men. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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