Jump to content

North German Plain 85 in SB


Koen

Recommended Posts

Hello,

JC (from the very interesting Real & Simulated Wars-blog) had the idea to replicate a phase from the grand-tactical/operational war game North German Plain 85 in SB.

I helped him a bit with creating the Red side of the battle (scenario will be uploaded here later).

JC (aka El_Cacho on this site) is still pondering the best ways for NATO to handle the Red challenge. Any input from you for his battle plan is welcome at:

http://kriegsimulation.blogspot.com/2011/10/north-german-plain-85-steel-beasts.html#more

What would you do?

Cheers, K

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh I am a huge fan of the '85 series. I recognize this map and I've been contemplating for the longest time to create SB scenarios off of my experiences in the HPS games, but the lack of British units in SB always gave me pause. The arrival of the Chally2 to SB is highly welcome in this regard. As far as feedback for NATO, I can't say since I almost always play as WP in the HPS games and have had success against the AI. Can't wait for your download to be available. Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

BTW, not sure if you know this, but on another page in that blog there were people wishing that you could customize the NGP unit strengths on the map to match the engagement from SB. Actually, you can do this with the text editor, but editing the .btl file.

If you want to know more, just let me know.

BTW, what up with the stock NGP unit graphics but nice modded map graphics? Have you not heard of this place: www.volcanomods.com ??? ;)

...shameless plugs everywhere, I know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What to a NATO officer is just a dirt path through a forest is to a Soviet, almost as much of a "road" is as a highway, and therefore just as much as a candidate for a regimental strike sector. If a NATO officer in planning his defense believes that a Soviet unit will be channeled along open valleys because the flanking wooded hills constitute an obstacle "on account of their lack of roads", then he might be in for an unpleasant surprise... :wink:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What would you do?

This looks like an amazing scenario Koen. I can’t wait until it’s uploaded!

Personally, as Blue commander (and an enthusiastic civilian), and compared to current dispositions, I’d be very worried about a feint in the North and a Red main effort through Harderode-Voremberg-Hellwegskamp-Tunderanger and into Hemeln from the South. I’d definitely want screening forces in the vicinity of Harderode with strong mobile reserves in the area of Afferde-Hastenback which could deploy against a Red main effort in the North or South. That would be my initial game plan.

Edited by Panzer_Leader
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

The saga continues, 2 new instalments about "North German Plain 85 in SB" by JC on his blog:

* FRAGO: a very nice write-up !

http://kriegsimulation.blogspot.com/2011/10/north-german-plain-85-steel-beasts_30.html#more

* The tactical plan:

I tend to disagree with the choices that JC made

... but then again, I have preliminary knowledge of what Soviet Tank Regiment 173 will do :-)

How would you tackle this tactical vignette ?

http://kriegsimulation.blogspot.com/2011/10/north-german-plain-85-steel-beasts_3577.html

Will upload the scenario later when JC posted his AAR.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The blog page wouldn't show me the captcha, so I'll have to comment it here. The forest of OP2 is known to locals as the "Ith", a formidable obstacle in reality. Surprisingly steel slopes, densely forested - I don't know to which extent the terrain theme makes forests more difficult to traverse in this scenario, but it should. It would then force the Russkies to rely almost completely on the road network, which should make it relatively economical to guard these passage, e.g. with one Leopard and a Marder platoon per road. This could free up those desperately needed other Leopards to guard the northern approach.

Of course, artillery must be on standby to support either approach lane.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Scenario is uploaded now

- thank you Kingtiger, or other admin, for doing this so swiftly.

You can test the battleplan of JC (see his blog),

or the default plan included in the scenario,

or - of course - your own plan.

Oh, and you can play the scenario also in single player from the Red side:

Network Session / Act as: Host / select the mission (Blue will then run on its preplotted battle-plan)

Gives the perspective from the Soviet side ...

JC enjoyed the scenario (he will post his AAR later) - hope you may enjoy it too.

The forest of OP2 is known to locals as the "Ith", a formidable obstacle in reality. Surprisingly steep slopes, densely forested - I don't know to which extent the terrain theme makes forests more difficult to traverse in this scenario, but it should.

That is absolutely the case here ...

In fact, Red routes needed plenty of micro-managing to avoid that companies mingle, crash in each other and then block the road ...

't was almost more an exercise in route-management / logistics, than a combat operation :-)

So good terrainanalysis is key for Blue.

SPOILER:

The Red battle-plan is explained in the Red briefing: what they do and why.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice to see a battle arround Hameln. But its the old one.

I´ve set up the new housemodels and fixed the streets.

So you can take your google-maps to move through the city :)

If you want an update of this give me some days to clean up the area eastwards. At present its under construction (Springe- Bad Münder)

I need 3-4 days to finish the area

SS_14_46_51.jpg.894f73174eada883a2fde81a

SS_14_46_51.jpg.894f73174eada883a2fde81a

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, it's on one of your terrific maps, Manteuffel.

Big THX for all your work on this.

An update would certainly be looking good.

But there is also a (small) chance that the scenario may not function well any more, as a plethora of routes for the red vehicles pass through Coppenbrügge & new houses might hinder them ?

So not sure that it's worth the effort for this scenario ?

Rgds, K

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thats good news Ssnake,

Koen not trying to take anything away from your thread but wanted to say I'm working on a Fulda Gap campaign using an updated map of Haune Valley (GaryOwens) which will be labled Hünfeld map. I just received the topo maps and will start adding the towns on the DDR side of the map. Not to take anything away from GaryOwens map but am adding some roads that are missing on the DDR side.

I'm looking on hosting this in January, want to wait until I get 2.6 in December.

ok, turning this thread back over to you, sorry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I played this through twice last night and it was tough. Fantastic job Koen!

I don’t want to spoil it for others but it’s certainly a difficult one to pull off without disheartening losses (or it could just be me). I’m going to keep trying until I play it to my satisfaction but it feels to me like robust planning is certainly required; mine may have been a little on the ‘lite’ side before I jumped in. It certainly felt realistic and the way I imagine a Soviet offensive would have played out for NATO during the Cold War or for the Germans during the latter stages of World War Two.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wish there were American units in this AO, to this date I'm not familiar with the Leos.

Well the Mission Editor will let you do this (the file isn't password protected [at least for Blue]). Just change the tank types to M1 and the Mech Inf to Bradleys and you'll get a rough analogue.

However, I would love to play the WP side, namely with the upcoming playability of the T72! I'm sure these Russian tanks make an appearance in this map.

But then you'd need to script the NATO side wouldn't you. :)

Edited by Gibsonm
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, so the map is just that. No units included yet.

I wouldn't mind putting M1s on this map if Americans were deployed there in reality. I don't remember Americans in this AO when I played NGP85 and I have pretty good faith that Mr. Tiller didn't include them there for realistic reasons. For this reason anything but would hold little to my imagination.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, so the map is just that. No units included yet.

I wouldn't mind putting M1s on this map if Americans were deployed there in reality. I don't remember Americans in this AO when I played NGP85 and I have pretty good faith that Mr. Tiller didn't include them there for realistic reasons. For this reason anything but would hold little to my imagination.

No the scenario file is the map plus units (FRG and Sov).

You can however open the file and click on say a Leo2 PL and change it to an M1 PL.

Or you can delete everything and start over (make a copy of the file first). :)

The Soviet side has lots of unit scripting so if you wanted to play as Red (with playable T-72) you'd have to delete a lot of this (unless you just want to crew a tank reacting to the scripts and do the gunnery yourself).

However Blue isn't scripted at all so if you did play as Red you have to build scripts for Blue (otherwise they will just sit there).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I ran this scenario the other night there but got called away just after starting it and I forgot to pause it, so by the time I got back there were just 2 red units left and they were in the centre of Hemeln. There were a lot of blue losses too with only 1 operational leopard left which I used to mop up the last remnents of the red.

It was a victory of sorts but a costly one, and I must give it another go and see if I can cut down the losses on the thin blue line :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the clarification Gibsonm. I wouldn't mind riding in a vehicle that is scripted. I do it all the time during scenario creation/experimentation. It's very fun watching all the goings on from a (edit sp)trail cam. It's even more awesome watching it from a cupola.

Edited by Scrapper_511
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...