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Ssnake

SB Pro PE 2.6x general information

403 posts in this topic

Russian commanders in real life took notice of the abilities of Shilkas in battles such as in Grozny and so much understood them that recommendations were made to use them.

Does this translate over into Steel Beasts? I can't really comment on that. Artificial environment, and furthermore what may work under select conditions will not in others.

Absent an air threat in places like Afghanistan or in Grozny, they were in fact used this way, and while they are potentially quite vulnerable, they evidently achieved results good enough to do it anyway. Not necessarily ideal in all cases, but where necessary, that's what was going on.

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Isnt the shilks and the tunguska a bit of an overkill? Choppers and uav,s are extremely vulnarable allready as it it. I would have rather seen an AAA unit on the blue side for a change.

In a similar vein, now that we will gain the ability to alter infantry loadouts on vehicles, perhaps shifting the RBS70 back to regular infantry squads may be a viable option. This would serve as a workaround for integrating MANPADS at the squad and company level a la SA-6/Stinger.

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One more time- the Russian Army began specifically using AA units as a matter of doctrine, specially formed up in urban assault units to do exactly that, I'm afraid. What are you attempting to argue, that they didn't do that, or that it was some low ranking clown who did that? Bringing in specialist vehicles such as self propelled AA was a deliberate improvisation.

Apologies for what risks becoming a "thread-jack", and based on what what merely a passing comment as to the fallacy of using AA Systems in the ground role. Yes, they get used. The 30mm Oerlikon at Goose Green being the one that most often springs to mind. Generally it's a dumb idea.

However to clarify:

1.) Based on the very poor level of sources about Chechnya I very much doubt the ZSU was used in that role as much as advertised, and if it was, so what?

2.) Improvisation can still be symptomatic of stupid things done badly. Using ZSU was far more likely an emotional response because it is noisy and impressive. This was almost certainly not a choice based on a comparison of the operational analysis of a BMP-2's 30mm cannon with it's good-enough elevation, longer range, better accuracy, and better perforation characteristics.

3.) Based on what we do know, Russian Urban operations were so poorly conducted that they provide little or no read across to contemporary operations, apart from that of a general context that emphasises how not to do it.

....and I will now do my best to absent myself from turgid operational discussions and talk purely about the game... which is why I am here.

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Apologies for what risks becoming a "thread-jack", and based on what what merely a passing comment as to the fallacy of using AA Systems in the ground role. Yes, they get used. The 30mm Oerlikon at Goose Green being the one that most often springs to mind. Generally it's a dumb idea.

Once again- the fallacy is in any way you attempting to 1) promote the idea that they weren't used in this way, and 2) that the Russians didn't think it was worthwhile. It's already implied that the Russians thought they were worthwhile- otherwise they wouldn't have used them. At the very least, put yourself in that position and think about it. What would you do: not use them? Why? There's no air threat, so they're just sitting there anyway. Would you rather sacrifice your tanks?

1.) Based on the very poor level of sources about Chechnya I very much doubt the ZSU was used in that role as much as advertised, and if it was, so what?

2.) Improvisation can still be symptomatic of stupid things done badly. Using ZSU was far more likely an emotional response because it is noisy and impressive. This was almost certainly not a choice based on a comparison of the operational analysis of a BMP-2's 30mm cannon with it's good-enough elevation, longer range, better accuracy, and better perforation characteristics.

3.) Based on what we do know, Russian Urban operations were so poorly conducted that they provide little or no read across to contemporary operations, apart from that of a general context that emphasises how not to do it.

This is either a red herring or it's wrong. You're saying something like it wouldn't happen because it's stupid- the irony is given the fact that the Russians lost quite a few BMPs in stupid assaults, what would make you think that they wouldn't throw in some Shilkas in stupid missions, hell, when did the Russians place a high premium on the lives of conscripts anyway?

The poor performance early in Grozny explains why they deliberately improvised, it doesn't explain your theory that they didn't do this. Those aren't even related ideas.

Clearly you wouldn't be convinced of the matter anyway- you're explaining why you believe it's stupid- that's your only answer against what did actually happen.

Since no source which says that they were used in this way will ever convince you, why don't you put up a source- show me a source which says they positively weren't, show me someone which rules them out and says they were never involved in any way at all.

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I miss when this thread was about SB Pro PE 2.6x general information and not about what army did what with the Shilka.

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Well i also read the Russians used ZSU,s.and they also developed the terminator urban Combat assault vehicle.as a result.

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I miss when this thread was about SB Pro PE 2.6x general information and not about what army did what with the Shilka.

Those where great times indeed ;-)

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Those where great times indeed

Concur. I've never seen any proof that the ZSU-23/4 was ever used in the ground role, and even if it has then it is a one off, like using a Carl-Gustav 84mm in the anti-ship role.

I really apologise for this thread diversion. I had no idea the comment above would lead to such a nonsensical exchange, which was made in agreement with another post. I'll leave it at that.

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....There are no new buildings to show however...

Above quote was only about the new map by manteuffel? So there will be new buildings/objects?

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There will be new objects, but Manteuffel made the map with the still current version 2.552 which doesn't have them, so the map can't show them (and now is a bit late to try and revamp it).

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There will be new objects, but Manteuffel made the map with the still current version 2.552 which doesn't have them, so the map can't show them (and now is a bit late to try and revamp it).

Thanks! Just making sure NOT to finish my map before the next version is out, so I can incorporate the new stuff =)

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Greetings all,

Another note on observed items within that new map.

I don't seem to remember ever seeing vehicles or their icons called " 11th 1" (cross country carrier) or "10th 1"(ambulance).

Is there a new naming protocol avail. for selecting call signs? Or do we now get individual named and displayed call signs.

Later,

9erRed

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Sort of, but can't really comment.

The joys of SB Pro often being a couple of updates ahead of SB Pro PE. :)

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Greetings all,

Another note on observed items within that new map.

I don't seem to remember ever seeing vehicles or their icons called " 11th 1" (cross country carrier) or "10th 1"(ambulance).

Is there a new naming protocol avail. for selecting call signs? Or do we now get individual named and displayed call signs.

Later,

9erRed

All in due time, the mysteries of the Sith will be revealed. :biggrin:

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News of the day:

The PLN Files Are Back!

Not only can you save Plan A as you could in ye olde SB1 days. They are no longer broken, too!

And you can save Plan B as well. And Plan C. In fact, there is no real limit any longer. You can have any file name that you want for your plans:

  • Operation Petticoat.
  • Unternehmen Seemöwe.
  • Krasnaja Maskirovka.
  • Secret Fiendish Doublecross 03.

Disk space and your imagination are the limit.

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News of the day:

The PLN Files Are Back!

Not only can you save Plan A as you could in ye olde SB1 days. They are no longer broken, too!

And you can save Plan B as well. And Plan C. In fact, there is no real limit any longer. You can have any file name that you want for your plans:

  • Operation Petticoat.
  • Unternehmen Seemöwe.
  • Krasnaja Maskirovka.
  • Secret Fiendish Doublecross 03.

Disk space and your imagination are the limit.

Ok, I'm lost what are PLN files and what are they used for?

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Planing files. So you can do a planing phase, den save it so next time you load up the scenario you just load the plan you want to use. so all text, routes etc are in already. Was sorely missed for a long time!

Edit: Really love you can save several per scenario! wonderful :D

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Planing files. So you can do a planing phase, den save it so next time you load up the scenario you just load the plan you want to use. so all text, routes etc are in already. Was sorely missed for a long time!

Edit: Really love you can save several per scenario! wonderful :D

Thanks KT, sounds great.

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Quick question, I see ground mounted TOWs and crew, will we have Stinger teams to shoot at the helicopters?

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News of the day:

The PLN Files Are Back!

Ssnake...if eSim has an Amazon wishlist, I swear something cool will end up in your stockings!

This is probably the MOST missed feature from SB to ProPE that I have. It radically changes the invested time for playing SP missions, since you don't have to re-think and re-program plans every time you play! I mean...wow.

This pleases me more than any single vehicle or feature addition I can think of in the last 3 updates. Great news!

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Ssnake...if eSim has an Amazon wishlist, I swear something cool will end up in your stockings!

$25.- will be sufficient, thank you very much. :)

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