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LtGeorge

T-72 - what's the verdict?

209 posts in this topic

IMHO, awesome. I admit I wasn't heavily into the crewable T-72 camp, but now it is here, it is enjoyable in a masochistic way. It took some time in the wiki to figure out how to handle the gunner's position, and it is definitely a step back from the Western tanks. The restrictions on the IR sight, traverse speed, and operation in general reveals how much thought has been put into Western tanks to make them effective from a gunner's and TC's standpoint.

Hearing the autoloader in action is great. Have to get used to manually queuing up the next round myself.

Thanks SB! Great work! :biggrin:

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I can tell you my verdict after having used it for a couple of months:

It is the most difficult tank in SB at the moment. You have to be very good to be successful with it, be willing to take losses, and get in as close as possible to your prey. Other than that, always operate in full platoons, don't detach single vehicles, try to ambush enemy on reverse slopes, and don't forget to press "V". ;) Personally I like the T-72, but I love a good challenge too...

It is certainly not for everyone.

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It is the most difficult tank in SB at the moment.

I believe it. I'm finding that there are noticeable limits on lots of things. Gunnery past 2km stinks. Inside of that range, things are marginally ergonomic - having to elevate once to lase, then go to your actual elevation, and estimate lead... Good luck getting a first round hit, when you KNOW that M1 or Leo2 can land a 2km first-round hit on you without trying too hard. It takes you to the basics of tank tactics - don't trust your armor, move around, etc.

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It's a hoot. If it weren't for the esorteric characteristics, it would have a more generic, Armed Assualt feel- something would be wrong in that case.

A player controlled T-72 can make much more of a mess than the computer. Those of you who participate in the MP battles will find that out, you will find a different opponent with human T-72s than the computer tanks. Guranteed.

They're brutal against the M60. I was finding that my single T-72 could knock them around a bit and take hits pretty well- again though, if the M60s were human controlled, this would feel different.

Great addition. As stated already, don't forget the reload key. The irony is an autoloader adds one extra step for the gunner, it could go bad if you forget that.

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It takes you to the basics of tank tactics - don't trust your armor, move around, etc.

You missed out the big one.

Make sure there are fecking loads of you! :)

Obviously not gotten used to it yet, but wow what a gulf between the FCS of the western tanks. Is the T-80 any better in that respects?

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It helps to remember that T-64, T-72 and T-80 are the tanks that caused us (NATO) to collectively shite ourselves and develop the Soviet-beaters that are the M1 family, the Leopard 2 family, and the Challenger twins.

Soviet kit's also inextricably linked to Soviet tactics; they didn't believe much in using tanks as a defensive weapon, like an antitank gun or ATGM, instead relying on their protected, mobile, firepower to make counterattacks and spoiling attacks. If you try using a T-72 like a Leopard or an Abrams in the defence, or try attacking purely by fire from stand-off distances, you will be sorely disappointed: Lt. George here has already pointed out the difference in gunnery potential.

Unfortunately I can't recommend a single good book for Soviet tank tactics. There's a bunch on operational or battalion + tactics, not much for how the companies were intended to fight their fight.

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I believe it. I'm finding that there are noticeable limits on lots of things. Gunnery past 2km stinks. Inside of that range, things are marginally ergonomic - having to elevate once to lase, then go to your actual elevation, and estimate lead... Good luck getting a first round hit, when you KNOW that M1 or Leo2 can land a 2km first-round hit on you without trying too hard. It takes you to the basics of tank tactics - don't trust your armor, move around, etc.

Yes indeed, when playing the T-72 you have to take into consideration that you may not actually hit with the first round. :shocked:

Also, as Captain Colossus elluded to, it is very important what you match the T-72M1 up against. We found that scenarios of the T-72M1 matched up against Centurion, M60A3, Leopard AS1, and even against Leopard 1A5-DK and M1(A0) can be quite fun. It is a good use of the Centurion and M60A3 as well, since they are currently unplayable, but of course the Centurion is completely over matched with the T-72M1.

As for Soviet tactics for use in the T-72, you can sum it up with: stay in the low ground, move in close for the kill, go to ground when resistance is met and bypass with follow on forces in order to flank the enemy, mass fires against all threats, and so forth (take it from there)...

Edited by Volcano

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I know thats its may be a bit to early to ask but what are the chances that we will see an upgrated version of the 72 in the (near) future? I mean something with better armor and some ERA? Doenst later version still use basicly the same "FCS"? Or in this case we may could live with not beeing able to use those fancy missles ;)

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I know thats its may be a bit to early to ask but what are the chances that we will see an upgrated version of the 72 in the (near) future? I mean something with better armor and some ERA? Doenst later version still use basicly the same "FCS"? Or in this case we may could live with not beeing able to use those fancy missles ;)

I don't think that anyone would deny that additional playable T tanks/Russian vehicles would be nice. Who knows what the future will bring -- just try enjoy the T-72M1, BTR-80 and BRDM-2 for now. ;)

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I haven't gotten around to crewing the T72 that much. I've just been doing a lot of oggling in this update. First off, the tank looks great. Every little thing on that turret seems three dimensional (I love the grenades and the spinning cupola). The dshk(?) sounds awesome! And what a wonderful feeling I got when I got inside of it! It really feels like I'm inside one.

Verdict: It is awesome!

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Played a bit with 72. Very, very impressive at least ;) And interior from T-72M1 can be applied to T-72M...

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I like it! :)

After reading through the T-72 wiki I took one out on the tank range this morning.

I surprised myself by getting several first round hits at long range! However, I let the side down trying to hit a quick moving tank - that took 8 attempts. :cul:

I like the sounds too, very impressive especially the auto-loader. Now it only needs Sean Connery's 'Red October' accent for the TC. ;)

Edited by Quagmire

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Played a bit with 72. Very, very impressive at least ;) And interior from T-72M1 can be applied to T-72M...

How do you do that i was wondering if they had the same cockpit.

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How do you do that i was wondering if they had the same cockpit.

Actually controls and their location are the same for T-72M and T-72M1(difference is neglectable for 902A-equipped vehicles). Soviet T-72A made after 1982 is a bit different, since there are some bells and whistles(.aka Lead Prediction Device/UVBU kit) added.

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Obviously not gotten used to it yet, but wow what a gulf between the FCS of the western tanks. Is the T-80 any better in that respects?
... I mean something with better armor and some ERA? Doenst later version still use basicly the same "FCS"? Or in this case we may could live with not beeing able to use those fancy missles ;)

The FCS model on the T-72B is "1A40-1". On a quick glance, I couldn't find any info on what model of FCS the T-72M1 has, but according to every source, there's a difference. It could be just the ability to fire missiles as far as I know. What definitely hasn't really changed is the night operating capability. The main point behind the T-72B(M) upgrade seems to be raising protection levels to be in par with the T-80U. So if you want an uparmored T-72 (Turret front vs. HEAT up to 950mm, ERA up to Kontakt-5), the B model is already in the game ... although unplayable.

So it looks like T-72B lags well behind the T-80U in terms of FCS (1A45 Irtysh) and sights (latter actually has thermals). That shouldn't be surprising though, considering that the tank that was going to have all the T-80's technical improvements - the T-72BU - was merely redesignated as the T-90. So if you want a better, "more T-80'd" T-72, that's where you should look. T-72B just happens to be the last model that had "T-72" in its name, and therefore looks (and is) so outdated.

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While we are at it, whats the reason that the gun shots left/right of the aimpoint while driving? Isnt the sights correctly aligned? Shouldnt it hit right at the target if the enemy doesnt move?

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Depending on the terrain, distance, and ammunition selection, cant (roll angle) could result in these deviations. Also the question is how large the coincidence window is.

You simply are spoiled from the luxury of the Leopard 2. Don't expect the T-72 to work like it.

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Induction, there are a lot of major differences in the FCS between the M1 and the B variants. The B can do a lot more stuff like compute crosswind, and give the gunner semi-automatic lead. How it works is you place the laser ring on the target, hold it down, and while you are holding it down, some numbers will appear in the eyepice telling you which marks on the horizontal scale to put on the target. After this number stabilizes, the gunner releases the laser button, places the target on the indicated mark, and BAM! Speaking of which, the main gun sounds from the outside have a much improved feel to them, thank you eSim. If used properly, the T-72M1 can be a very deadly weapon in the sim.

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Induction, there are a lot of major differences in the FCS between the M1 and the B variants. The B can do a lot more stuff like compute crosswind, and give the gunner semi-automatic lead. How it works is you place the laser ring on the target, hold it down, and while you are holding it down, some numbers will appear in the eyepice telling you which marks on the horizontal scale to put on the target. After this number stabilizes, the gunner releases the laser button, places the target on the indicated mark, and BAM! Speaking of which, the main gun sounds from the outside have a much improved feel to them, thank you eSim. If used properly, the T-72M1 can be a very deadly weapon in the sim.

the T-72B does not have a crosswind sensor afaik.

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the T-72B does not have a crosswind sensor afaik.

It have if was produced after 1990 or 1991. Other thing is that those vehicles are quite rare.

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But it does have a semi-auto lead system. That's included with the 1A40-1 FCS.

are you sure you're not confusing it with the late 1990s T-72BM, or T-90?

afaik, the difference between 1A40 and 1A40-1 is that the 1A40-1 has the

1K13 sight for guiding missiles.

here's a picture of the T-72B gunners spot:

1A40-1M_4.jpg

TPD-K1 rangefinder sight looks nearly identical to the one in T-72M1.

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Thats the gunsight the Iraqi T-72 had BTW. Never understood why they want the M1A1 when the T-72 is the right tank for them. I suggested they upgrade to the T72M3/4CZ but they didnt want to hear it. I estimate some 1200 T72's exist in the tank graveyards there. I wanted to ship an MTLB home!

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hi, we just try a coop with 4 T72.

With manned commander and gunner in each tanks.

It's an awesome experience and as said before, it's a back to basics of tank tactics :)

So, there is an problem between the turret position seen by commander and the position the gunner saw it.

no lag in the mission, so I didn't exclude a host problem.

:biggrin:

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