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Red Tide '85 - Message to BLUEFOR


Gibsonm

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The final orbat hasn't been decided yet. Also the recon battle orbat is out of our control.

OK. So who does control the recon orbat? I thought that was 12Alfa.

It may not be possible to publish more information at this stage but I thought I'd ask. I see that password-protected Red and Blue threads were initially set up but not implemented due to concerns about security with people swapping sides mid campaign.

So I'll turn up and 'wing it' anyway.

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OK. So who does control the recon orbat? I thought that was 12Alfa.

It may not be possible to publish more information at this stage but I thought I'd ask. I see that password-protected Red and Blue threads were initially set up but not implemented due to concerns about security with people swapping sides mid campaign.

So I'll turn up and 'wing it' anyway.

The Recon ORBAT is controlled by the people who make the scenario. Both sides "get what they get" basically, and this based upon what a typical reconnaissance force would have, so there really isn't much leeway to work with (no Challenger 2s really), and considering that we don't have anything in the way of UK style reconnaissance units (ie. Scorpion, Scimitar), then there probably will never really be much in the way of UK units on Wednesdays unfortunately.

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The Recon ORBAT is controlled by the people who make the scenario. Both sides "get what they get" basically, and this based upon what a typical reconnaissance force would have, so there really isn't much leeway to work with (no Challenger 2s really), and considering that we don't have anything in the way of UK style reconnaissance units (ie. Scorpion, Scimitar), then there probably will never really be much in the way of UK units on Wednesdays unfortunately.

Ah, OK. Didn't realise that Recon assets were basically the same from week to week. That's fine by me. Thanks for the reply.

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Ah, OK. Didn't realise that Recon assets were basically the same from week to week. That's fine by me. Thanks for the reply.

And that reinforces the idea that the recon battle is being fought by a sister formation (here basically an ACR) that is providing the feeds back to the higher HQ (i.e. above me) which in turn come down to me at Task Force level.

We are all (regardless of position) working with limited information and limited time frames to use that information (i.e. like it is in real life). :)

As it comes down the chain the amount of information becomes more specific but the time window narrows too.

So when I get (note it hasn't happened yet) the details for the main battle, I tell the Company commanders their reduced slice of the picture and that narrows again to your level where it becomes, "today we take this hill" or somesuch.

Ideally we don't get to the point of "Guys follow me, I'll brief you on the radio on the way", but it may well happen.

Edited by Gibsonm
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And that reinforces the idea that the recon battle is being fought by a sister formation (here basically an ACR) that is providing the feeds back to the higher HQ (i.e. above me) which in turn come down to me at Task Force level.

We are all (regardless of position) working with limited information and limited time frames to use that information (i.e. like it is in real life). :)

As it comes down the chain the amount of information becomes more specific but the time window narrows too.

So when I get (note it hasn't happened yet) the details for the main battle, I tell the Company commanders their reduced slice of the picture and that narrows again to your level where it becomes, "today we take this hill" or somesuch.

Ideally we don't get to the point of "Guys follow me, I'll brief you on the radio on the way", but it may well happen.

Thanks Mark. All very realistic, which is good. It's just that I seem to recall a 'pre-session' briefing for the second recce mission where you (I think) published a map and some details about which obstacles we should try and deny RedFor getting their eyes on. But probably a figment of my fevered imagination combined with lack of sleep. :confused:

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I suspect that was when you were still in the Comd team and getting the PM traffic?

That traffic is still going on but its up to your component commander to relay it down.

I only send my PM traffic to:

Recce CO (as my flanking formation)

TF 2IC / XO

Arty guy

Log guy

Component Commanders

Component 2ICs

The Component commanders ideally then “value add” at their level and send it down to the Company commanders (if for a given battle we have more than one company from a given country - as has been the case on the last two occasions) or Platoon / Troop commanders (if only one Company involved).

If Real Life the Platoon / Troop commanders would then add their bit and pass it on to the vehicle commanders, who in turn, then brief their crew.

I suspect what is happening lower down on the BLUEFOR side is that the Component commanders are briefing everyone in their group all at once because the numbers are small enough to accommodate that (but how they manage their people is up to them).

Edited by Gibsonm
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I suspect that was when you were still in the Comd team and getting the PM traffic?

That traffic is still going on but its up to your component commander to relay it down.

I only send my PM traffic to:

Recce CO (as my flanking formation)

TF 2IC / XO

Arty guy

Log guy

Component Commanders

Component 2ICs

The Component commanders ideally then “value add” at their level and send it down to the Company commanders (if for a given battle we have more than one company from a given country - as has been the case on the last two occasions) or Platoon / Troop commanders (if only one Company involved).

If Real Life the Platoon / Troop commanders would then add their bit and pass it on to the vehicle commanders, who in term, then brief their crew.

I suspect what is happening lower down on the BLUEFOR side is that the Component commanders are briefing everyone in their group all at once because the numbers are small enough to accommodate that (but how they manage their people is up to them).

OK, now I understand it - thanks Mark.

From the military hierarchial point of view, I see you prefixed one of your posts with 'Just back from Brigade'. So am I right in thinking that during the operation, Commander BlueFor holds the field position of batallion commander with company commanders reporting to him? Not sure what the RL equivalent of Component Commander is.

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Typically, the battalions of a brigade get augmented by other forces which get attached for a specific task, or as a general mix of e.g. armored and mech troops, thus turning the battalion into a task force (aka "Battle Group"; meaning: a brigade component, without actually being a "pure" battalion).

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OK, now I understand it - thanks Mark.

From the military hierarchial point of view, I see you prefixed one of your posts with 'Just back from Brigade'. So am I right in thinking that during the operation, Commander BlueFor holds the field position of batallion commander with company commanders reporting to him? Not sure what the RL equivalent of Component Commander is.

Well normally at the highest levels you have within a Combined Task Force (CTF) a:

Land Component Commander,

Air Component Commander, and suprisingly

Maritime Component Commander

Usually within a Task Force / Battlegroup the members are all from one nationality.

Ours is "special" in that it is mixed. If we only ever deployed 1 x US Company, 1 X DE Company and 1 x UK Company, I could call them Company Commanders.

But in our Task Force / Battlegroup the composition changes so if there are 2 x UK Companies who is the "UK Company Commander"?

So easier, for me anyway, to refer to the Senior UK guy as the UK Component Commander, and if we have more than one UK Company in the field he will control one and somebody else the other(s).

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But in our Task Force / Battlegroup the composition changes so if there are 2 x UK Companies who is the "UK Company Commander"?

So easier, for me anyway, to refer to the Senior UK guy as the UK Component Commander, and if we have more than one UK Company in the field he will control one and somebody else the other(s).

Thanks again for all the useful info. The above answers the question we have been kicking around UKA since the beginning of this campaign: 'If we are ever asked to field two UK companies, is a separate/extra command position above the company commanders required?' Your answer makes it clear that the senior company commander becomes the BritFor commander (UK Component Commander) in the field, reporting direct to OC BlueFor. Thanks.

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Typically, the battalions of a brigade get augmented by other forces which get attached for a specific task, or as a general mix of e.g. armored and mech troops, thus turning the battalion into a task force (aka "Battle Group"; meaning: a brigade component, without actually being a "pure" battalion).

Thanks Ssnake. I've never really understood the relationship between the official Division/Brigade/Batallion/Company structure and outfits described as Task Forces or Battel Groups. 'til now. :)

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Peace-time organization is tailored for efficiency in logistics, maintenance, and training (also doctrinal cohesion) - but it is decidedly at odds with the necessity in combat to form a combined arms task force. Also, some components are needed on a battalion level only in small numbers, e.g. air defense assets, which you wouldn't want to handle in peace-time unless you were willing to form a "jack of all trades" company where you'd collect all the various combat support and signals elements.

So it's better to concentrate certain assets only at brigade or even division level, and to disperse them in a task-oriented manner to the lower echelons/formations.

Of course, this doesn't obviate the necessity in peace time to organize common exercises, which NATO used to do with their free-running autumn maneuvers at division scale. Needless to say that it also is the most costly way to do it, and that this is the reason why they are no longer being done these days. Virtualization might prove to be at least a partial solution; this event here might have this as Gibsonm's professional focus, a little private experiment. But I'm just speculating here.

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