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Maj.Hans

Manual Fire Control bug in M1/M1A1 and others?

I noticed something a little while back, and just tested it again just now.

Basically, in the sim, the manual override is effected by the Main Gun / Coax selector switch just as the normal trigger is. If you flip the selector switch over to coax and pull the normal trigger, you get full auto MG fire. If you press the manual fire control key, you get a single shot from the coax.

 

From what I understand, the real Abrams tank has two separate manual overrides.

The first is the 'master blaster', the big red handle that fires the main gun, and the second is on the Coax itself and fires the coax normally when pressed.

I think a similar bug effects other tanks, like the Leopard AS1, the manual fire button only produces single shots, and as the normal trigger is disconnected you can't fire the Coax that way either.

I guess the solution is either to add a separate manual fire key for the coax so that one key will always fire the main gun and the other always fire the coax, regardless of where the normal FCS selector switch is; or to edit the "manual fire" key so that it can work correctly for both guns?

I know that certain other tanks might require a two man crew in the turret to fire the Coax in manual mode. For example I guess the T-72 gunner has to yell over to the TC to get him to pull the trigger, etc.

 

Edit To Add: Just remembered something else, but I'll tack it on here. In the Leopard 2A4, it's possible to use the TC's Peri commands ONLY when looking through the periscope. You have to enter the scope view itself in order to lock the scope to the gunner's line of sight, to activate the override, to enter KW mode, or to cancel any mode.

So if you enter override or KW mode and then go to the GPSE view to use the thermals to get the gunner on target, you need to go back to the scope to cancel the override and tell the gunner to fire...

It seems like the overrides should be accessible from either the GPSE or Peri view, and you should be able to cancel from any view as long as you're in the turret where you can reach the cancel button?

Edited by Maj.Hans

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Edit To Add: Just remembered something else, but I'll tack it on here. In the Leopard 2A4, it's possible to use the TC's Peri commands ONLY when looking through the periscope. You have to enter the scope view itself in order to lock the scope to the gunner's line of sight, to activate the override, to enter KW mode, or to cancel any mode.

So if you enter override or KW mode and then go to the GPSE view to use the thermals to get the gunner on target, you need to go back to the scope to cancel the override and tell the gunner to fire...

It seems like the overrides should be accessible from either the GPSE or Peri view, and you should be able to cancel from any view as long as you're in the turret where you can reach the cancel button?

That one at least is a feature (a concession that SB is just a sim): if you were able to activate the gun-to-peri override while in the GPSE, the turret would move towards the peri, wherever the peri is pointing at! In RL, you quickly glance up and see where it is (ie if it is 'safe') but you can't do that in the sim and hence the decision was to force the user to be in the peri view in order to activate KH mode.

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That one at least is a feature (a concession that SB is just a sim): if you were able to activate the gun-to-peri override while in the GPSE, the turret would move towards the peri, wherever the peri is pointing at! In RL, you quickly glance up and see where it is (ie if it is 'safe') but you can't do that in the sim and hence the decision was to force the user to be in the peri view in order to activate KH mode.

Really though, theres ways around this, and still some other problems...

I could activate the peri-to-gun observation mode, wait a few seconds, and then override.

Or, I could enter gun-to-peri override mode and then immediately enter KW mode, causing the Peri to align to the gun and giving me control of the gun...

Even assuming that the Leopard 2A4 was coded like this for a reason, what prevents me from entering the peri-to-gun override while in the GPSE, or from canceling the current override mode while looking through the GPSE or sitting in the turret? Sometimes I want to use the thermals to lay the gunner on target, but it's a pain in the but to need to go back to the peri to cancel...

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I noticed something a little while back, and just tested it again just now.

Basically, in the sim, the manual override is effected by the Main Gun / Coax selector switch just as the normal trigger is. If you flip the selector switch over to coax and pull the normal trigger, you get full auto MG fire. If you press the manual fire control key, you get a single shot from the coax.

From what I understand, the real Abrams tank has two separate manual overrides.

The first is the 'master blaster', the big red handle that fires the main gun, and the second is on the Coax itself and fires the coax normally when pressed.

I think a similar bug effects other tanks, like the Leopard AS1, the manual fire button only produces single shots, and as the normal trigger is disconnected you can't fire the Coax that way either.

I guess the solution is either to add a separate manual fire key for the coax so that one key will always fire the main gun and the other always fire the coax, regardless of where the normal FCS selector switch is; or to edit the "manual fire" key so that it can work correctly for both guns?

I know that certain other tanks might require a two man crew in the turret to fire the Coax in manual mode. For example I guess the T-72 gunner has to yell over to the TC to get him to pull the trigger, etc.

Edit To Add: Just remembered something else, but I'll tack it on here. In the Leopard 2A4, it's possible to use the TC's Peri commands ONLY when looking through the periscope. You have to enter the scope view itself in order to lock the scope to the gunner's line of sight, to activate the override, to enter KW mode, or to cancel any mode.

So if you enter override or KW mode and then go to the GPSE view to use the thermals to get the gunner on target, you need to go back to the scope to cancel the override and tell the gunner to fire...

It seems like the overrides should be accessible from either the GPSE or Peri view, and you should be able to cancel from any view as long as you're in the turret where you can reach the cancel button?

Actually you should be able to use all your triggers, except the master baster to fire the coax, plus the gunner putting his finger up on the solenoid. In my SB when I use the Manual fire ( Fire Control Mode is set to Manual) the coax fires 3 round burst which is not correct. Also if your LRF is not damage you should also still be able to lase in Manual Mode. There are many other things featured in the abrams that you cant do in SB.

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We are aware of that, thanks.

 

Actually, we will look back into this one - there seems to have been some confusion in the tracking of this bug. That said, we have been aware of it since SB1 but it has never been a priority (maybe we can change that now).

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On 9/20/2012 at 9:03 AM, Retro said:

That one at least is a feature (a concession that SB is just a sim)...

 

Actually, the main concession was that we only have one manual fire key (SHIFT+SPACE), so we have to use it as context sensitive. On the real M1 you can fire either coax or maingun manually, separately, but in SB we have it based on what weapon system is selected since we only have the one key to use. The design decision being: 'it's good enough'. ;)

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