We love screenshots

[ChrisWerb]

Thank you Scrapper! Could I just ask who used Browning M2HB (pre QCB/M2A1) 0.50s with Elcan optics on Picatinny rails on Centurions? Looking at the Engine deck I'm guessing this might be an Israeli example.

[delta6]

A new find from the IDF...Look at the gun tube,its bent..This is a atgm launch system...Missles are launched fron a rear mount pop up system...

[Bond_Villian]

17 hours ago, ChrisWerb said:

Could I just ask who used Browning M2HB (pre QCB/M2A1) 0.50s with Elcan optics on Picatinny rails on Centurions? Looking at the Engine deck I'm guessing this might be an Israeli example

 

I read somewhere that this is added to the Shot Cal in SB to make up for the fact that the 'ranging mg' isnt modeled, and could be used against light vehicles. (the screenshot is a Shot Cal)

 

From the WIKI;

 " The Sho't Kal has the ability to mount either the M1919 (M240) or the M2HB heavy machine gun on the commanders cupola. The type of machine gun on the mount is specified in the Mission Editor. "

Edited September 20, 2016 by Bond_Villian

[ChrisWerb]

Thank you Bond_Villain. I only posted because I was curious as I'd have expected gun Cents to be out of Israeli service before the Elcan came along and have never seen an Elcan on any weapon in Israeli service.

 

Someone above posted a pic of the Magach 5 (M48 based) Tammuz/Spike-NLOS launcher vehicle called Pereh.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pereh_missile_carrier

 

 

 

There was/is an M113 based launcher vehicle with six missiles called the Hafiz,

 

 

some of which briefly served with the British Army.

 

http://www.thejc.com/news/israel-news/146128/israel-gave-uk-rockets-own-stockpile

 

[D u k e]

Servus,

 

some screens from a mission test.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2016 by D u k e

[D u k e]

[Rambler]

Some shots from this past Sunday's Kanium scenario.

 

Recon Team A getting ready to move out:

 

Time to find the enemy:

 

Recon LMG team observing:

 

The main attacking force, consisting of Marders and Leopard 2A6s moves out:

 

 

The main thrust of the attack went through a heavily forested area. Marders cautiously move through it.

 

A BMP and I pass each other in the forest less than 50m away. I see him but he doesn't see me. When I called in to report it, Mirzayev asked if I was sure it was BMP. Before I could respond in the affirmative, all I heard was "Yeah that's a BMP!" When I looked at the AAR I saw that he had driven straight into it!:

 

Mechanized Infantry assault a hamlet near the first objective area:

 

2A6s bypass a minefield:

 

Engineers clearing obstacles near the hamlet:

 

Recon Team B, who found a minefield and a number of T-80Us, watch the main effort from our northern flank:

 

Leopards moving into position to cover the airfield:

 

2A6s and Marders engaging targets on the airfield:

 

 

[Grenny]

Great shots!!!

[Grenny]

The Engineers follow the Grenadier across the Line-of-departure

[Rambler]

Thanks! It was a fun scenario. Lots of surprises in that forest!

[Maj.Hans]

On 9/20/2016 at 5:21 AM, Bond_Villian said:

 

I read somewhere that this is added to the Shot Cal in SB to make up for the fact that the 'ranging mg' isnt modeled, and could be used against light vehicles. (the screenshot is a Shot Cal)

 

From the WIKI;

 " The Sho't Kal has the ability to mount either the M1919 (M240) or the M2HB heavy machine gun on the commanders cupola. The type of machine gun on the mount is specified in the Mission Editor. "

 

That is exactly the reason.

 

I figured that some British gunner or TC may have been tempted to try saving one of his precious main gun rounds by shooting up a BTR-50 or PT-76 with his coaxial M2 rather than the 105.

Since the coaxial M2 would have had the GPS to help aim it, the TC's M2 gets the optic.

 

 

[Maj.Hans]

I thought my IPM1 was safe in a hull down position behind the action.  I bumped over to the gunner's seat to let the AI TC keep a lookout for enemy vehicles while we reloaded and I gave some quick orders on the map screen.  Suddenly, "Battlesight Tank!" and the AI TC overrides me at a T-80 mere meters away.

 

My first reaction was to scream like a little girl.  I took a quick guess and rapidly fired a round off into the dirt right in front of my target.  It seemed like my loader was taking an eternity to get the gun loaded again...

Edited September 21, 2016 by Maj.Hans

[Maj.Hans]

My second, and more correct reaction, was to immediately go to the GAS so I didn't shoot the dirt in front of my target, settle my bore-sight cross right on his turret ring, and send an M900 APFSDS screaming his direction.

 

Dasvidaniya, babushka!

 

[ChrisWerb]

10 hours ago, Maj.Hans said:

 

That is exactly the reason.

 

I figured that some British gunner or TC may have been tempted to try saving one of his precious main gun rounds by shooting up a BTR-50 or PT-76 with his coaxial M2 rather than the 105.

Since the coaxial M2 would have had the GPS to help aim it, the TC's M2 gets the optic.

 

 

 

That begs the question as to what the 0.50 would have been loaded with. Spotting cartridges don't have great AP characteristics, even compared to regular ball. This one is for the M40A1 BAT 106mm RR, so features the short case for the M8 series spotting rifle, but I would expect the projectile for the 12.7x99 cartridge used for spotting to be similiar.  I am sure I read about the Australians in Vietnam using 0.50 ranging MG's to fire into enemy huts etc. but GibsonM would know a lot more about that. Since their odds of encountering a time-critical hard target beyond battlesight range in South Vietnam must have been very limited, they could have fed their MGs a more anti-personnel/anti structure oriented mix of rounds. I would expect a spotting rifle to be loaded entirely with spotter rounds, but an RMG may have had a mix as standard.

Edited September 22, 2016 by ChrisWerb

[Maj.Hans]

It's still a .50BMG round, which means even if it's not designed strictly as an AP round, it'll mess up thin steel plates in some fashion.

I thought British tank crews might be tempted to hit a BTR-50 or similar with it, but if not I'll just revise the scenario.

[ChrisWerb]

I'd leave it be. It just raised some questions in my head. I'm a bit autistic and tend to go off on obscure trains of thought. I don't know what the doctrine was regarding using the RMG as a weapon and would love to hear some input from those in the know.

 

Late edit: I put up a thread on this over on tank-net.com. We still seem to be on Google's shit list, but there are still quite a few knowledgeable people posting over there..

Edited September 22, 2016 by ChrisWerb

[Gibsonm]

40 minutes ago, ChrisWerb said:

I don't know what the doctrine was regarding using the RMG as a weapon and would love to hear some input from those in the know.

 

 

Basically "no".

 

You use the main gun, coax or the pintle.

 

The RMG gets you "on" so you can hit the target with something that counts.

[Ssnake]

RMG rounds are ballistically matched to a certain other (main gun) round, e.g. the 106mm recilless rifle in SB pro. That means that (by necessity) it must have substantially different external ballistic properties which probably are to the detriment of the terminal ballistic effect (which however is acceptable since it is designed for an entirely different purpose). Also RMG rounds are probably modified to generate a bright flash on impact (e.g. zirconium element), which probably further reduces the terminal effect (but makes observation and knowing when you're "on" so. much. easier). Finally, as far as I understand it, RMG rounds would be fired as single shots rather than in bursts, making them "even more useless" (if that were grammatically possible) in the anti-personnel role.

[ChrisWerb]

15 hours ago, Ssnake said:

RMG rounds are ballistically matched to a certain other (main gun) round, e.g. the 106mm recilless rifle in SB pro. That means that (by necessity) it must have substantially different external ballistic properties which probably are to the detriment of the terminal ballistic effect (which however is acceptable since it is designed for an entirely different purpose). Also RMG rounds are probably modified to generate a bright flash on impact (e.g. zirconium element), which probably further reduces the terminal effect (but makes observation and knowing when you're "on" so. much. easier). Finally, as far as I understand it, RMG rounds would be fired as single shots rather than in bursts, making them "even more useless" (if that were grammatically possible) in the anti-personnel role.

 

I think it's impossible to ballistically match a full-bore 12.7 x 99 spotting round to 105mm APDS as the L28A1 had an m/v of 1473 metres a second - that's 4,932 fps. IIRC typical 0.50 rounds would be around 2750 fps. Therefore the rounds must have been matched* to HESH in the 105mm which had an m/v of around 2400 fps. 2400 fps is distinctly inferior to a standard MG round in velocity but we are still talking a c. 750 grain (IIRC) projectile at 0.303 British velocities and that is going to mess most things it hits up and potentially ruin your whole day. What we don't know is if this matching was attained by a heavier and/or blunter bullet - that seems unlikely given the substantial space given over to the spotting charge. That would lead me to believe that the gun was specially tuned for the spotting rounds - it would have needed re-setting (presumably a stronger recoil spring) to five conventional ammunition. There are quite a few sources stating the Australians used RMGs offensively in VN and it seems highly likely that the guns so used were configured for regular ammunition. However, one states that the guns were somehow set to fire 3 round bursts only - that doesn't make them completely ineffective as weapons of course, particularly in surface to surface roles - it may have been possible to disconnect the limiter or even substitute a normal M2HB machine gun receiver or entire gun. One of my friends built 0.50s for the US and foreign militaries for many years so I'll ask him the question.

 

*It's obviously impossible to completely match a much larger round throughout its trajectory - the matching solution inevitably involved compromise.

Edited September 23, 2016 by ChrisWerb

[Gibsonm]

I don't know why we bother answering you.

 

You ask, people respond and then you just keep going.

 

Welcome to my ignored list.

 

Edited September 23, 2016 by Gibsonm

[Splash]

Cool.

Now maybe we can get back to the pretty pictures. 

 

[ChrisWerb]

23 hours ago, Ssnake said:

RMG rounds are ballistically matched to a certain other (main gun) round, e.g. the 106mm recilless rifle in SB pro. That means that (by necessity) it must have substantially different external ballistic properties which probably are to the detriment of the terminal ballistic effect (which however is acceptable since it is designed for an entirely different purpose). 

 

I'd have thought that too, but according to this article posted by Harold Jones over on tank-net.com the L11A1 0.50 spotter round started off with a velocity of 2,965 fps and was then reduced to 2,900 fps - that's a very healthy m/v for a 0.50 Browning cartridge (barrel length not specified - spotter Brownings had shorter barrels, making this an even faster load in a standard barrel). This is with a 722 grain, tungsten-cored bullet, so not something super light. M/v isn't everything, and I fully accept what you're saying about a spotter round being designed for another purpose, but this is still a potent round. There was another post over there explaining how British designers achieved burst fire which was quite interesting too.

[Bond_Villian]

Ive been replaying the Sinai Campaign (included in standard install), enjoying the 'Shot Kal' (and missing a lot). Maybe one day we can crew the AMX

[Rotareneg]

 

 

[Connaugh]

D.O.W. Saturday Mission 24/09/16

 

MADNESS AT MERSA MATRUH  by Connaugh

 

SITUATION:
After the defeat at Gazala, the Commonwealth has retreated to defensive strongpoints based on the coastal town of Mersa Matruh with the main goal of delaying the Afrika Korps from advancing on Alamein.

MISSION:
The Afrika Korps is to assault with the intent of capturing the Commonwealth strongpoints and destroy 75 per cent of the Commonwealth force, paving the way for an advance into Egypt.

EXECUTION:
The Etruscan Infantry Brigades- Trento, Brescia, and Pavia will assault the the town of Mersa Matruh. The Afrika Korps Armored units of 15th Panzer, 21st Panzer, 90th Light, and the Etruscan Armored units of Ariete and Trieste will capture Bir El Hukuma, Charing Cross, and Sidi Hamza. Then assist the Etruscan Infantry by capturing Mersa Matruh. Next, the Armored units will swing east to assault Bir Sarahna, Minqar Qaim, and Bir Kalda. The Commonwealth positions will be defended by the 10th Indian, 50th Northumbrian, and 2nd New Zealand infantry units along with the battered remnants of the 1st and 7th Armored. Two weak battle groups,  Leathercol and Gleecol, have been formed to defend the center between Mersa Matruh and Sidi Hamza. A cynical staff officer has described a battle group as a "brigade group that has been twice overrun by tanks".

 

 

 

The Afrika Korps advancing to assault the Mersa Matruh line

 

 

 

104 Inf/21 Panzer advancing

 

 

 

 

 

 

Commonwealth Centurion destroyed at Bir El Hukuma

 

 

 

 

65 Bersaglia / Ariete clearing Bir El Hukuma

 

 

 

 

11 Armored / Trieste destroyed at Sidi Hamza

 

 

 

132 Armored / Ariete taking losses at Sidi Hamza

 

 

 

15th Panzer assaulting Charing Cross

 

 

 

 

5 CSS / 15th Panzer assaulting Sidi Hamza

 

 

 

21st Panzer repelling Leathercol counterattack at Charing Cross

 

 

 

Charing Cross cleared by 90th Light

 

 

 

Sidi Hamza cleared by 104/21st Panzer

 

 

 

Gleecol counterattacking Commonwealth tank unit destroyed at Sidi Hamza by 15th Panzer

 

 

 

3 Recon / 15th Panzer detecting Commonwealth tank platoon advancing on Mersa Matruh

 

 

 

CSS Platoon moving up

 

 

 

 

Commonwealth convoy attempting to escape Mersa Matruh destroyed

 

 

Carnage at Mersa Matruh

 

 

 

Mersa Matruh cleared - Victory!