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stalintc

We love screenshots

2,702 posts in this topic

Do you remember the old M32 infrared GPS? Add a sight reticle to this and you’d have it. Oh for the good old days! ::wink:

IRimage1.jpg.b1f24ef8b0ad66cc5bb5d0d4523

IRimage2.jpg.7566562ae47221fa3df4731b00e

IRimage3.jpg.77711e1b745445268884db7c683

IRimage1.jpg.b1f24ef8b0ad66cc5bb5d0d4523

IRimage2.jpg.7566562ae47221fa3df4731b00e

IRimage3.jpg.77711e1b745445268884db7c683

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Work in progress:

winterabrams02uw5.png

Besides adding the dude and some sunflare, I tried to add a little heat wave on the left where the engine is, which didn't quite turn out as I had imagined, but I don't think detracts from the pic too much. And the dude was clipped from an actual photo; a Bradley's TC in the desert.

Although I wish it had turned out a bit better, I'm happy with it, and think it was a good little test.

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Work in progress:

Although I wish it had turned out a bit better, I'm happy with it, and think it was a good little test.

Turned out better? This thing is superb!

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Work in progress:

winterabrams02uw5.png

Besides adding the dude and some sunflare, I tried to add a little heat wave on the left where the engine is, which didn't quite turn out as I had imagined, but I don't think detracts from the pic too much. And the dude was clipped from an actual photo; a Bradley's TC in the desert.

Although I wish it had turned out a bit better, I'm happy with it, and think it was a good little test.

BEAUTIFUL! It would be nice to see same things in the actual game :)

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untitled-1.jpg:biggrin:

My first thought: Ha, being an amphibious doesn't help you in this situation!

My second thought: "Russian tanks painted to look like crocodiles for ambushing LAVs approaching water" The russians will try anything...

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Well, I didn't create this. This is a case of the red AI attempting to cross an unfordable river. Like lemmings heading over the cliff. This happens quite frequently. I think the AI logic needs to be tweaked. This never happened in SB1. Sort of screws up a scenario if half of the redfor never make it to the engagement area.

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Well, I didn't create this. This is a case of the red AI attempting to cross an unfordable river. Like lemmings heading over the cliff. This happens quite frequently. I think the AI logic needs to be tweaked. This never happened in SB1. Sort of screws up a scenario if half of the redfor never make it to the engagement area.

It couldn't happen in SB1 because there simply were no steep embankments. And "the AI" doesn't attempt to cross rivers on its own. Someone has scripted a route across the river without testing if it works. Is the computer responsible, or sloppy mission design?

Put the blame where it belongs. The computer does what it is being told, not what you want it to do.

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Yeah Homer, you could'nt get it any better! :)

Sockeye, just awsome. As that picture loaded I thought it was real untill I looked closer.

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It couldn't happen in SB1 because there simply were no steep embankments. And "the AI" doesn't attempt to cross rivers on its own. Someone has scripted a route across the river without testing if it works. Is the computer responsible, or sloppy mission design?

Put the blame where it belongs. The computer does what it is being told, not what you want it to do.

Nils, I disagree.

It can have nothing to do with the scripting. The vehicles have been "told" by a programmer to wander around on their own.

I have put tanks in a defend position to overwatch a breach in a minefield. They were roughly 100 meters short of the minefield. Sometimes they get aggressive and wander past the waypoint and into the minefield and get themselves blown up.

Similarly, just the other day, I played an online mission and set several LAVs to overwatch a river crossing where Bibers were set up. They were all told to defend and were on high ground at least 100 meters from the river. EVERY one of them wandered into the river and drowned.

That sent me scurrying to the manual and I guess I should have put them on HOLD rather than DEFEND. HOLD does not allow them to move forward while DEFEND does.

Granted, I used the wrong behavior mode. Live (or die) and learn.

BUT the AI should be smart enough to not drive right into a river, even if it is allowed to wander around in a DEFEND mode. The AI driver should see the water and avoid it. Instead, they seem attracted to it (witness the screen shot).

Arguably, they might blindly drive into an unseen minefield but NOT a river.

I would call that a bug. And I would argue it should be fixed.

HT

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the AI probably thinks the embankments are the worlds best battle position!

well, at least until they slide into the river.

rivers ARE good battle positions though.

you can sneak troops along the rivers pretty far.

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In the screenshot of the river above:

90% of the vehicles in that screen shot are not "dead". The BMPs, BRDMs etc are simply stuck on the steep embankments and they cannot get out. So saying the vehicles are driving into the riverlike lemmings (thereby implying they are killing themselves) is not the case. What we have here a conflict between most of the vehicles knowing they can drive in the water, but not knowing how steep the embankments are. Ssnake is correct here, you cannot program every possible case into the AI's consideration.

In that situation someone *could*, at the moment of that screenshot, drive the vehicles down the river and look for a shallow exit.

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Granted, the BMP probably is the best swimming vehicle in SB.

But, whether the problem is the deep water or the embankment slope, the AI driver should be programmed to take one virtual look at it, say: "No way, Jose!" and back away. It also should be capable of sniffing around until it finds a safe way to cross the obstacle.

HT

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Is that the Leo1 with the new Light Sabre attachment :)

Good shot Homer.

Yeah Homer, you could'nt get it any better! :)

I would say thanks... but that's me on the receiving end. heh

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I would agree with HotTom that AI units should be able to tell when a route is clearly impassible. However, I know of a case where 3 M2's went over a cliff that was clearly marked in their IVIS system and was part of the pre-exercise safety briefing. No one knows why they did it because the PL and PSG both died, along with 3 other crew members. :-( Therefore, "clearly impassible" may not be so easy to define.

Regardless, I think that it is the player's responsibility to monitor his units, so I would see no need to give the AI the ability to figure its own way around such an obstacle. Maybe AI units in this situation should give a radio call saying they have arrived at implassible terrain and need guidance?

And, of course, scenario designers should test the passibility of routes themselves. If this happens to computer-controlled units, as opposed to player-controlled units, I think it is the scenario designer's responsibility to adjust the scenario until it stops happening. In that case, it is certainly not the responsibilty of the developers to create AI that can sort this out on its own.

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Amen to all you guys. This screenshot was actually from the Red Decision Point scenario and it happens all the time. Whenever I check red's final position in the AAR, a substantial number of vehicles are either stuck on an embankment or have drowned in an impassable river.

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When I was creating my Bridges at Meragen scenario, I wanted a river crossing, but the problem was that the embankments were too steep to just drive up the other side.

I gave the AI routes which plot straight down into the water, get half-way across, then make a dramatic turn at an angle so that instead of trying to get straight out the other side, they go up at a more gradual slope. Over 80% of the vehicles get out, which for an unreconnoitered river crossing with amphibious vehicles really isn't all that bad.

NTM

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I have put tanks in a defend position to overwatch a breach in a minefield. They were roughly 100 meters short of the minefield. Sometimes they get aggressive and wander past the waypoint and into the minefield and get themselves blown up.

Similarly, just the other day, I played an online mission and set several LAVs to overwatch a river crossing where Bibers were set up. They were all told to defend and were on high ground at least 100 meters from the river. EVERY one of them wandered into the river and drowned.

Can you simplify both missions to the point that the undesired behavior shows up right from the start, and send them to me or Comments at eSimGames.com?

We can then use them as test cases to improve the behavior. I concede that if what you're telling is true, this can and ought to be addressed. A test case helps us a lot.

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