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Parachuteprone

1979 ish Canadian Leo c1 ?

41 posts in this topic

Looks like the Leo 1A5 GE will be the closest thing to a Canadian Leopard C1.

Can anyone tell me what equipment should be disabled ? and what ammo to use

in order to emulate the C1 ?

Thanks

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Looks like the Leo 1A5 GE will be the closest thing to a Canadian Leopard C1.

Can anyone tell me what equipment should be disabled ? and what ammo to use

in order to emulate the C1 ?

Thanks

In general terms it's the same AFV in SB. However it's a C2,the C1 were leopard 1A3/4 AFV's

It will be the tank that we Canuks use in the up coming campaign "First Clash" and the follow on campaign "Counter Stroke"

Ammo used by the CF (1985):

APDS/T: L28A1, C35 (same as L28A1 except CA primer),

C35A1 (same as L28A1 except US primer),

C35A2 (US primer and different propelling charge)

APFSDS-T: M111 (the write up for the C74 TPDS/T also mentions a M735 APFSDS)

TPDS/T: C36A3, C74 (and L45A1, DM88)

-C74 as not the sub-cal tubular shot, that was the C71, however the C71 is not listed as being in use in 1985 (but I don't think it was long after that, early-mid 90s). The C74 was later modified to be the C148 SR/TPDS-T by putting small fins similiar to that on C71.

STUP/T: C62

HESH: L35 series (and M393A2, DM512)

SH/T Prac: C66, C72 (and L56A1, NR 110)

Smk WP-T: M416

Smk BE: L39A2

Blank: C1A3

Items in parentheses were not CF stock but authorized for CF use.

Leo C2 fires a full range of NATO 105-mm tank ammunition. This tank also uses improved ammunition for increased lethality.

Hops this helps:)

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Great ! will use it as a c1 til the Leopard IV is made playable some day:)

Thanks for the info !

Actually, this kind of thing might make an interesting thread.

"How to" approximate a Challenger 2 into a Challenger 1 etc.

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In general terms it's the same AFV in SB. However it's a C2,the C1 were leopard 1A3/4 AFV's

It will be the tank that we Canuks use in the up coming campaign "First Clash" and the follow on campaign "Counter Stroke"

Ammo used by the CF (1985):

APDS/T: L28A1, C35 (same as L28A1 except CA primer),

C35A1 (same as L28A1 except US primer),

C35A2 (US primer and different propelling charge)

APFSDS-T: M111 (the write up for the C74 TPDS/T also mentions a M735 APFSDS)

TPDS/T: C36A3, C74 (and L45A1, DM88)

-C74 as not the sub-cal tubular shot, that was the C71, however the C71 is not listed as being in use in 1985 (but I don't think it was long after that, early-mid 90s). The C74 was later modified to be the C148 SR/TPDS-T by putting small fins similiar to that on C71.

STUP/T: C62

HESH: L35 series (and M393A2, DM512)

SH/T Prac: C66, C72 (and L56A1, NR 110)

Smk WP-T: M416

Smk BE: L39A2

Blank: C1A3

Items in parentheses were not CF stock but authorized for CF use.

Leo C2 fires a full range of NATO 105-mm tank ammunition. This tank also uses improved ammunition for increased lethality.

Hops this helps:)

Considering that it's 1985 loadout, I'm surprised to see that KE rounds seems a bit old for the year.

Was available ammo choice similar for other NATO armies too?

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To replictate the Leopard C1 I use 1A5 DK with thermal imager disabled. The C1 had a low light level TV (LLLTV) but this would not confer benefits during daytime, which a thermal imager does. So, if you want a more genuine target acquisition experience during daytime disable TIS. Of course, if it's a night mission TIS is the closest thing available to LLLTV for the 1A5 DK (C1).

Thanks for the info on ammo types 12Alfa, I'm personally very interested in 4CMBG so this is good to have for reference. I'm looking forward to your campaign. I also hope eSim see fit to introduce a Lynx one day... though I'm not going to push them too hard after the abundance of v3.0! :D

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To replictate the Leopard C1 I use 1A5 DK with thermal imager disabled. The C1 had a low light level TV (LLLTV) but this would not confer benefits during daytime, which a thermal imager does. So, if you want a more genuine target acquisition experience during daytime disable TIS. Of course, if it's a night mission TIS is the closest thing available to LLLTV for the 1A5 DK (C1).

Thanks for the info on ammo types 12Alfa, I'm personally very interested in 4CMBG so this good to have for reference. I'm looking forward to your campaign. I also hope eSim see fit to introduce a Lynx one day... though I'm not going to push them too hard after the abundance of v3.0! :D

Well, I have been using the 1a5 dk for now, however I believe it has a different turret than the C1 ?

C1 turret looks more like the 1a5 GE to me from the pic's I've seen.

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Well, I have been using the 1a5 dk for now, however I believe it has a different turret than the C1 ?

C1 turret looks more like the 1a5 GE to me from the pic's I've seen.

The C1 is basically a 1A3 and has the same welded turret as the 1A5 DK or AS1 for that matter. The upgraded C2 uses the cast turret with applique armour of the 1A5 GE (it was a turret swap) - and it received further MEXAS armour upgrades after that. I'm not sure what your sources are but I suspect you're confusing C2 with C1.

Edited by Panzer_Leader
Added MEXAS

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The C1 is basically a 1A3 and has the same welded turret as the 1A5 DK or AS1 for that matter. The upgraded C2 uses the cast turret with applique armour of the 1A5 GE (it was a turret swap) - and it received further armour upgrades after that. I'm not sure what your sources are but I suspect you're confusing C2 with C1.

Ah ! So I've got them backwards :)

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Didn't Australia get the AS1 turrets from canada?.

No.

We certainly bought turrets but used them as targets (sorry 12Alfa).

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No.

We certainly bought turrets but used them as targets (sorry 12Alfa).

That still hurts :(

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In general terms it's the same AFV in SB. However it's a C2,the C1 were leopard 1A3/4 AFV's

It will be the tank that we Canuks use in the up coming campaign "First Clash" and the follow on campaign "Counter Stroke"

Ammo used by the CF (1985):

APDS/T: L28A1, C35 (same as L28A1 except CA primer),

C35A1 (same as L28A1 except US primer),

C35A2 (US primer and different propelling charge)

APFSDS-T: M111 (the write up for the C74 TPDS/T also mentions a M735 APFSDS)

TPDS/T: C36A3, C74 (and L45A1, DM88)

-C74 as not the sub-cal tubular shot, that was the C71, however the C71 is not listed as being in use in 1985 (but I don't think it was long after that, early-mid 90s). The C74 was later modified to be the C148 SR/TPDS-T by putting small fins similiar to that on C71.

STUP/T: C62

HESH: L35 series (and M393A2, DM512)

SH/T Prac: C66, C72 (and L56A1, NR 110)

Smk WP-T: M416

Smk BE: L39A2

Blank: C1A3

Items in parentheses were not CF stock but authorized for CF use.

Leo C2 fires a full range of NATO 105-mm tank ammunition. This tank also uses improved ammunition for increased lethality.

Hops this helps:)

I'm wondering, if it is possible to discuss, what is the load out from 2005 or so?

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Thats Ok ! They probably missed :)

No when I last saw them they had quite a few holes in them, but I wont post any happy snaps here for fear of inflicting “cruel and unusual harm“ on 12Alfa.

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I'm wondering, if it is possible to discuss, what is the load out from 2005 or so?

It's tailored to the mission, if tanks are the main threat then sabots, if inf, then Hesh/Heat. Pretty standard for most tank units I would think.

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It's tailored to the mission, if tanks are the main threat then sabots, if inf, then Hesh/Heat. Pretty standard for most tank units I would think.

Same here.

The SSM and OC talk about it and determine the load out by role.

Then the SQ demands the ammunition to suit.

Tanks vs Building busting / Inf vs “balanced”.

There is a suggested load out in SOPs but it is by no means rigorously followed.

Hence why in the recent LNoT Mission #2 one of the Sqns had a balanced load and the other was tailored for its fire support role.

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Ammo used by the CF (1985):

APDS/T: L28A1, C35 (same as L28A1 except CA primer),

C35A1 (same as L28A1 except US primer),

C35A2 (US primer and different propelling charge)

APFSDS-T: M111 (the write up for the C74 TPDS/T also mentions a M735 APFSDS)

TPDS/T: C36A3, C74 (and L45A1, DM88)

-C74 as not the sub-cal tubular shot, that was the C71, however the C71 is not listed as being in use in 1985 (but I don't think it was long after that, early-mid 90s). The C74 was later modified to be the C148 SR/TPDS-T by putting small fins similiar to that on C71.

STUP/T: C62

HESH: L35 series (and M393A2, DM512)

SH/T Prac: C66, C72 (and L56A1, NR 110)

Smk WP-T: M416

Smk BE: L39A2

Blank: C1A3

Items in parentheses were not CF stock but authorized for CF use.

Leo C2 fires a full range of NATO 105-mm tank ammunition. This tank also uses improved ammunition for increased lethality.

Hops this helps:)

12Alfa

Do you know if these ammo types were used by CA from 1985 through the end of the Cold War or were new types introduced? Just keen to understand from a current and future scenario design perspective.

Thanks

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For the most part as new advance ammo was developed and placed in the supply system the units were able to draw them. New gunners probably saw them on the gunnery course after the schools R&D cell had gathered the necessary data for use. At the unit level, the gun camps after some training the new ammo would have been fired for the first time.

I would think if new ammo did not require any additional training on it's use it was just issues and fired along with the other ammo.

I can look deeper in this if required, as a rule as it was developed it entered the supply system, thus the tanks fired them.

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For the most part as new advance ammo was developed and placed in the supply system the units were able to draw them. New gunners probably saw them on the gunnery course after the schools R&D cell had gathered the necessary data for use. At the unit level, the gun camps after some training the new ammo would have been fired for the first time.

I would think if new ammo did not require any additional training on it's use it was just issues and fired along with the other ammo.

I can look deeper in this if required, as a rule as it was developed it entered the supply system, thus the tanks fired them.

Thanks 12Alfa. No need to look deeper, I was just asking in case it was something you knew off the top of your head. I think it's safe to assume this ammunition was still available through the late 1980s.

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On 29/06/2013 at 10:43 AM, 12Alfa said:

In general terms it's the same AFV in SB. However it's a C2,the C1 were leopard 1A3/4 AFV's

It will be the tank that we Canuks use in the up coming campaign "First Clash" and the follow on campaign "Counter Stroke"

Ammo used by the CF (1985):

APDS/T: L28A1, C35 (same as L28A1 except CA primer),

C35A1 (same as L28A1 except US primer),

C35A2 (US primer and different propelling charge)

APFSDS-T: M111 (the write up for the C74 TPDS/T also mentions a M735 APFSDS)

TPDS/T: C36A3, C74 (and L45A1, DM88)

-C74 as not the sub-cal tubular shot, that was the C71, however the C71 is not listed as being in use in 1985 (but I don't think it was long after that, early-mid 90s). The C74 was later modified to be the C148 SR/TPDS-T by putting small fins similiar to that on C71.

STUP/T: C62

HESH: L35 series (and M393A2, DM512)

SH/T Prac: C66, C72 (and L56A1, NR 110)

Smk WP-T: M416

Smk BE: L39A2

Blank: C1A3

Items in parentheses were not CF stock but authorized for CF use.

Leo C2 fires a full range of NATO 105-mm tank ammunition. This tank also uses improved ammunition for increased lethality.

Hops this helps:)

Hello people, I am a new member just, so salutations.

 

I came across this fascinating thread when trying to find an answer to a Canadian Leopard  C1 question. Some years back I recall reading (well, I think I do) that the C1 version of the Leopard 1 couldn't effectively fire APFSDS ammunition. I see by this thread that circa 1985 it carried M111 equivalent APFSDS. My vague memory has me further recalling that, though carried, the C1 struggled with accuracy when firing APFSDS, and that a solution was only found by the 1A5 turret substitution and upgrade to the C2 version. I know that this thread is well nigh 4 years old now, but if anyone out there is listening and has any willing insight I would appreciate any commentary, be that it confirm the above or the fact that I have an overactive imagination and none of it is true.:)

 

Thank's in advance. 

Edited by Will2

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6 minutes ago, Swordsmandk said:

Canadian campaign. I need to know more of that 12alfa 😊

 

I'm afraid you are a few years too late, unless he intends to re-run it.

 

 

 

Edited by Gibsonm
Included thread

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I do, I'm currently working on a single player campaign, after I plan to re-run.

 

After some though (a lot realty) on some of the past issues there might be a different format.

 

I've had some offers for both sides and just writing up the rules to avoid the issues of the past.  Stay tuned!

 

PM me for any info/ideas if you wish.

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