WOT the f*ck?

[Ssnake]

I don't see the merit in raising interest about something that we're unable to deliver.

[dejawolf]

i'd say it's the price point that SB pro PE has had for the past few years that has scared the tanknetters off.

125$ vs a free game, there really is no contest, no matter how crappy the free game is.

Edited September 14, 2013 by dejawolf

[Companion]

What I really don't get is how at TankNet - of all the sites of the internet - everybody seems to be excited about WoT while for SB Pro ... it's crickets. You'd expect that at least there some would be interested in what we're doing.

Maybe it's too close to the job - for some ... but for all of them?

I get the feeling that most dedicated Tanknet members just don't bother with video games much.

[Ssnake]

...or those of them who are interested in SB Pro are already here, among us. Some certainly are.

[enigma6584]

i'd say it's the price point that SB pro PE has had for the past few years that has scared the tanknetters off.

125$ vs a free game, there really is no contest, no matter how crappy the free game is.

I would agree with that. I would also add that for the price of $125 people are going to want (maybe expect) more finishing touches to the sim like 3D interiors for all crewable vehicles. More realistic looking sights for pintle mounted machine guns like the crewable MG3, M2 etc., little things which matter to the eye, which immerse the player.

Now I'm not criticizing this sim, I've bought into what you've all done, I think you guys are magicians actually but...

You guys, Esim, need to show visually WHY you are worth $125. You should be making promotional videos showing how this simulation shines and put it up on Youtube or anywhere you can. I'm talking about something like what Zipuli did with the "Brave Rifles" multiplayer campaign. IMHO that group of videos (6 total I think) is a masterpiece showing and hearing how this simulation shines in multiplayer. It is too bad those videos are in such low resolution. Esim IMHO should get a bunch of players together, those that can speak good comms, have them play an exciting mission, have several people in there recording it all and have some professional videos done in high resolution of this gameplay. That would be a start IMHO.

You guys have the engine, you have the gameplay, nothing can touch you in terms of the mechanics of realistic armor simulation on the PC, you need to show visually how good it is.

[Homer]

What I really don't get is how at TankNet - of all the sites of the internet - everybody seems to be excited about WoT while for SB Pro ... it's crickets. You'd expect that at least there some would be interested in what we're doing.

Maybe it's too close to the job - for some ... but for all of them?

Ever since I read "TIN CAN on a SHINGLE" at age 10, I became a buff of all things military but I never considered joining the armed forces despite my passion for it. Just because someone is interested in tanks, does not necessarily mean he wants to be a tanker. If you look at what they mostly talk about, it's usually about the nuts and bolts rather than how it operates in the field.

I think you would have more luck with hard core simmers, even if they aren't particularly interested in tanks. For them, it's about the experience and being able to push buttons.

WOT is designed to be electronic crack cocaine. It's hard to compete against that.

[john.gear]

I run into or know a great many people who were tankers in the Army or Marine Corp. I always ask them if they have heard of a computer simulation named Steal Beats. I give a quick but detail description of the Steal Beats and always tell them to check out SteelBeast.com

I make sure to explain that it is a simulation not a shoot them up type of computer game. I let them know that you have to do everything as you would have to do on the real tank or AGTS and that they have to use the tactical principals that they learned when they were in the service.

My last comments always are, check it out. Be prepared when you see the price, you will have sticker shock! But for the money, it is by far the best tank/ armor simulation available hands down. It brings back all the fun things we did in the service, shooting and maneuvering without having to be wet, cold, tired, or having to pull maintenance or go to the wash rack.

Plus you can drink a lot of beer while playing!!!!

I always get a good response about the simulation. I do get a few who simply cannot afford it.

:drink::drink:

[Koen]

Reduced SB-price for (ex)-army personnel ?

Could be interesting marketingwise: mouth-to-mouth publicity etc

And they deserve it IMHO

[Captain_Thunder]

A demo version would be worth ten thousand words.

Nothing like a hands-on experience.

[Gibsonm]

I do get a few who simply cannot afford it.

:drink::drink:

Well the new “pay as you use” licensing model should go some way to address that.

A demo version would be worth ten thousand words.

Nothing like a hands-on experience.

Well there already is a fully featured demo offered (albeit of two weeks duration).

Details are on the home page.

If they can’t be bothered to:

1. Ask (i.e. click on the link to send an email - how hard is that).

2. Use it when the do (about ⅓ of my email replies to people with instructions on how to access it actually turn into people using it - and I think its the same for the other guys currently offering it). For example there are about 5 whose window to take up the offer is about to close before I move onto the next people in the queue (and that includes people I‘ve PM’ed to say my reply to their email was on the way and to look out for it).

Then I’m not sure what extra can be done?

Again the new licensing model may increase the take up rate.

[ht-57]

'bout the price...

Its been said b-4, I'll reiterate... This has been the only sim that has outlasted pc's, the only sim thats remained on my hard drive for almost 8 years....so including updates its cost me bout $1.50 us a month. So really 75 bucks right now on sale? FFS I spend that in gas every week for one vehicle going to work. geez I hope ya dont want microsoft office thats only 400 us... I bet the same folks who complain bout the coin can find money for cigarettes and liquor tho. I love the cost, it keeps the kiddie fps asshats away cause mommy can't justify spending 125 dolloars on a video game, AND sbpro pe is probably the only title you can't find at aimjunkies.com that alone makes it worth the price of admission! mmmm lets do some math...BF3 cost me 60 bucks,aimjunkies monthly@16 was another 32 so 94 dollars and I played 3 months then deleted it.

I like most spent untold hundreds on a whole lotta other titles that are in the where are they now files!

Thank You esim and crew for the many YEARS of enjoyment!

[Homer]

Then I’m not sure what extra can be done?

It's apparent to me that the demo program should be expanded because playing SB is what sells it. How long are the queues? Would it make a difference if there were more people helping with the license hosting?

[Gibsonm]

It's apparent to me that the demo program should be expanded because playing SB is what sells it. How long are the queues? Would it make a difference if there were more people helping with the license hosting?

I think there is one person at the moment.

The problem is that I at least give a the recipient of my instructions a week to take up the offer before I move on to the next person (just in case they are away, etc.).

In the meantime a person in the queue may get bored waiting even though I've replied to their email.

Of course if they don't read that email, then its up to them.

Anyway the loan programme is going to be "retired" once the new licensing model comes in.

[Homer]

That's too bad. I didn't know I wanted SB until after I played it. This is probably the same common experience for the vast majority of SB owners past and present. That is evident from some of the posts in this thread alone.

If I were eSim, I would be loaning out stickfulls of licenses to trusted volunteers to ensure a demo is available and more accessible.

Oh well.

[Gibsonm]

Well I guess eSim just reckon that its better for the potential user to pay $10 for the minimum period than we volunteers effectively spending more than $10 in our time per person sending out emails, maintaining spreadsheets, etc. all for around a 60% take up rate for the demo (no idea how many of those 60% then buy it).

[ARM505]

I still maintain (even though I've never really voiced it) that SB PE should have an M1A1 only demo. Basically full featured, but all offline scenarios capped at 20 minutes, and only the M1A1 is crewable. Online multiplayer not restricted in any way (other than only being able to crew the M1, and that includes no outside view crewing of any other platform) Something like that.

WOT succeeds because there are almost zero 'barriers to entry' - just download and play. No cost, no skill. You'll be murdered, but at least you'll drive your tank around with other equally clueless people and even shoot at stuff too. Sometimes effectively. SB has (comparatively) enormous barriers to entry. High cost, high knowledge before even being able to not be insta-killed but tiny dots in the distance, difficulty obtaining a 'demo', much quieter online scene, niche knowledge required from the get-go, not as intuitive UI etc. The fact that SB looks a bit primitive in comparison doesn't help.

The bottom line is if you want to encourage pick up, SB needs to lower at least some barriers to entry. It's entirely possible whilst maintaining the hardcore sim focus IMHO.

But still, the idea that potential OPFOR is using WOT to do anything even vaguely to do with actual tank ops is great news for NATO tankers!

NO game I have ever played in my 30 years of playing games/sims compares to the insane, skull fragmenting levels of frustration that occur playing WOT. That's apart from the hideously unpleasant community that surrounds it for the most part, and the blatant disregard for what should be intuitive laws of physics.

I'll conclude with a quote: "That one bounced!"

[DarkLabor]

Would it make a difference if there were more people helping with the license hosting?

It's been eight years from now that Froggy gives french-speaking people a free try.

That's how I was able to play the sim in the first place. The day after I bought my first license without looking at the price.

The issue is not coming from the number of demo access points but rather some other parameters.

By exemple people in the army don't really want to spend a big amount of time on SB. They prefer instead going out with their girlfriends/wife or even taking care of their kids.

Others (military or not) are more attracted with WW2 tanks.

And the biggest point that I encounter most of the time : the national hardware is not there. (Leopardo 2E allowed the Spanish community to expand by exemple)

[Ssnake]

Equipment certainly has a certain "pull" effect ... which unfortunately makes it a bit of a hen and egg problem. In order to create a high fidelity representation of a specific tank we need access to the vehicle, which we usually don't get until after we demonstrated that we're capable of doing a competent job. The high degree of similarity in the Leopard family has helped us a lot in that respect, and Leopard user nations then brought in the CV90 which in turn had other pull effects.

WRT the price debate, we've been over this so many times. I haven't observed a price-dependent demand elasticity, to resort to sales lingo. There was no apparent uptick in sales whenever we reduce the price, so all that reducing prices does is to erode our profit margin. Yet, with version 3.0 we'll give it a final shot with the rental options. We'll observe it for a while, and we'll then draw our conclusions from it.

Yes, SB Pro has comparatively high entry barriers, and that's intentional. I like a civilized community, and weeding out the cheapskate trolls at the door certainly helps to maintain a generally positive mood rather than the ubiquitous Newbie bashing that one can observe in so many other places. It's also a matter of fact that combined arms combat tactics is complicated and requires a lot of experience. SB being a high fidelity simulation of fire control systems also places a certain knowledge barrier. Reducing that barrier would mean to dumb things down, and that would erode the very reason why you guys apparently love it. So, there isn't much that we can do about it in this specific area.

Keep in mind, my original question wasn't "why is there so little attention to SB Pro in general", but specifically at TankNet. One would think that the visitors there are the core constituents of Steel Beasts' demographics, yet isn't discussed there not even in passing (and I've given up being the only guy posting in Steel Beasts related threads). This apparent gap between expectation and reality has a wide spectrum of possible reasons - that those TankNetters interested in SB Pro have become members of this community already, that it is painful ignorance, that it's too close to the job, that SB is too time consuming to play, ... and it's important for me to understand which of these reasons it REALLY is because of possible implications in other areas.

[Homer]

Well I guess eSim just reckon that its better for the potential user to pay $10 for the minimum period than we volunteers effectively spending more than $10 in our time per person sending out emails, maintaining spreadsheets, etc. all for around a 60% take up rate for the demo (no idea how many of those 60% then buy it).

Yeah, I didn't think it's stopping because of a choice on your part.

Your efforts will continue to pay off because there will be people who would not have considered buying SB prior to playing the demo, and are now just waiting for the price change.

[Homer]

It's been eight years from now that Froggy gives french-speaking people a free try.

That's how I was able to play the sim in the first place. The day after I bought my first license without looking at the price.

The issue is not coming from the number of demo access points but rather some other parameters.

By exemple people in the army don't really want to spend a big amount of time on SB. They prefer instead going out with their girlfriends/wife or even taking care of their kids.

Others (military or not) are more attracted with WW2 tanks.

And the biggest point that I encounter most of the time : the national hardware is not there. (Leopardo 2E allowed the Spanish community to expand by exemple)

The demo is for people like you, not the other people. It would be correct to say you bought SB because of your experience with the demo? If not, why did you not buy SB before meeting Froggy?

[Tjay]

Yes, SB Pro has comparatively high entry barriers, and that's intentional. I like a civilized community, and weeding out the cheapskate trolls at the door certainly helps to maintain a generally positive mood rather than the ubiquitous Newbie bashing that one can observe in so many other places. It's also a matter of fact that combined arms combat tactics is complicated and requires a lot of experience. SB being a high fidelity simulation of fire control systems also places a certain knowledge barrier. Reducing that barrier would mean to dumb things down, and that would erode the very reason why you guys apparently love it.

+ 10

[DarkLabor]

The demo is for people like you, not the other people. It would be correct to say you bought SB because of your experience with the demo? If not, why did you not buy SB before meeting Froggy?

Well at the time, I was quite new to the wonderful world of tanks. I met Froggy on random military forums and he made a big advertisement on it's benefits and it's authenticity.

Without him I wouldn't knew that eSim games was there.

I joined the 507RCC the day I decided to buy the software and Froggy allowed me to play a little bit earlier (at the time I had a pretty rigid concept of software purchase and I ignored it was possible to share licenses).

[Hedgehog]

Well at the time, I was quite new to the wonderful world of tanks. I met Froggy on random military forums and he made a big advertisement on it's benefits and it's authenticity.

Without him I wouldn't knew that eSim games was there.

I joined the 507RCC the day I decided to buy the software and Froggy allowed me to play a little bit earlier (at the time I had a pretty rigid concept of software purchase and I ignored it was possible to share licenses).

Where is this Froggy Person?

[DarkLabor]

What do you mean?

[dejawolf]

Where is this Froggy Person?

http://www.steelbeasts.com/sbforums/member.php?u=28