M829A3 vs M829A2 muzzle velocity

[lavictoireestlavie]

The PEO Ammunition Systems Portfolio Book 2012-2013 has the following to say about the M829A3:

SPECIAL FEATURES:

• Superior Armor Defeat Capability

• Higher Velocity over M829A2 via Improved Propellant and Sabot

• Super DU Penetrator

Currently in SB, the muzzle velocity for the M829A3 and M829A2 is given at 1555 m/s and 1680 m/s respectively. Should this be corrected now ?:confused:

By the way, according to the book the M829A4 is supposed to be fielded 2nd quarter 2015.

[Ssnake]

Higher ... by how much?

So far we went with numbers that were extensively discussed over at TankNet. Not that it is the supreme authority on everything, but still. So far the conventional wisdom is that the M829A3 has a much heavier penetrator than the A2 which would explain the lower muzzle velocity (but still a somewhat equal or higher muzzle energy). Also note that the dU performance advantage over tungsten is highest around impact velocities of 1100...1200m/s, where higher velocities deliver diminishing returns, so the 1555m/s quote wasn't entirely without plausibility.

That said, plausibility isn't the highest form of verification.

If there's now an official document that gives a substantially different figure, that justifies a reevaluation. Which will take some time.

[Gibsonm]

By the way, according to the book the M829A4 is supposed to be fielded 2nd quarter 2015.

And the new revised date based on the cuts announced the other day is …..

[dejawolf]

The PEO Ammunition Systems Portfolio Book 2012-2013 has the following to say about the M829A3:

SPECIAL FEATURES:

• Superior Armor Defeat Capability

• Higher Velocity over M829A2 via Improved Propellant and Sabot

• Super DU Penetrator

Currently in SB, the muzzle velocity for the M829A3 and M829A2 is given at 1555 m/s and 1680 m/s respectively. Should this be corrected now ?:confused:

By the way, according to the book the M829A4 is supposed to be fielded 2nd quarter 2015.

official figure from ATK website gives muzzle velocity at 1555m/s.

so PEO is wrong.

http://www.atk.com/products-services/120mm-m829a3-apfsds-t-ammunition/

[lavictoireestlavie]

Thanks for clearing things up guys. Just was wondering about it.:clin:

[Stemik]

And the new revised date based on the cuts announced the other day is …..

That'll happen almost immediately, unfortunately. But, hey, the Obummer's got their multi-million dollar vacations so it's all good.

[Mogwa]

And the new revised date based on the cuts announced the other day is …..

Im not nearly as much of an expert on American politics and Military procurement as you are, so perhaps you could tell me where they announced cuts to procurement of M829A4 ?

[Gibsonm]

Im not nearly as much of an expert on American politics and Military procurement as you are, so perhaps you could tell me where they announced cuts to procurement of M829A4 ?

I'm not either but if you are retiring aircraft types, field formations, cut the budget by $31 billion in 2014 and another $45 billion in 2015 ...

Then I think the introduction into service of a new type of tank main armament ammunition (when the current one has been quite adequate in dealing with AFV encountered to date) is probably going to suffer too.

[Brun]

The traditional cycle of dismantling the military after war, then a scramble to get it back up to strength in the future. Like the time between the Great War and WW2. Or between WW2 and Korea. Or the time Between Korea and Vietnam. Or Vietnam and 1st Gulf War. Or 1st Gulf war and Afgan/Iraq war. Periods of Military decay.

Maintaining the skills and equipment is better in the long run than relearning and rearming for what is inevitable.

Perhaps if enough special interests get into play the New APFSDS could happen. If History is any example I would expect slim times until We realize We need those skills, and equipment, and formations again.

[Gibsonm]

Well my real world experience suggests that the contract with the ammunition manufacturer will be tight so the US Army would probably have to pay more in penalties for breaching the contract for reducing the quantity or cancelling, than just buying the stuff.

So you may well have a bunch of ammo (quantities based on pre cut numbers), but perhaps a vastly reduced number of tanks to fire it from.

[GSprocket]

Muzzle velocity of M829A3 is significantly higher than it would be if it used aluminium sabots, or even the first generation composite sabot technology of M829A2.

The improvement in parasitic mass reduction is higher from M829A2 to M829A3 than it was from M829A1 to M829A2 (mostly change of sabot from Alu to Composites of similar 'design'), the M829A3 sabot is injection moulded (drastically reducing cost and improving efficiency of manufacture), and also optimised with material reduction in lower stress areas.

Projectile energy of M829A3 is significantly higher at 1555m/s than for M829A2 at 1680m/s, and the use of DU material favours the lower impact velocities for improved projectile strength and penetration depth for constant energy projectile mass/velocity pairs. (WHA prefers impacts at somewhat higher velocity/lower mass, though the differences are subtle).