Marko Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I was wondering have Esim plans to have a random generated Mission facility.This thought accrued to me as I was screwing around with the DCS world mission editor.Which is good but not as good or as detailed as the SB editor, But it did have this generate Mission facility which I really liked.We are lucky in the SB community to have many Talented mission designers and I really Don't think any computer program could match the attention to detail force ratios and all The other stuff that goes in to making a top notch Mission. But I do remember when my playing time for SB was very limited and making or even editing a mission would have used most of my allocated time . A facility like the one DCS Has where you have a simple drop down menu box with options like nation. time. weather Amount of vehicles. Etc. then hit generate mission and away you go.I have not tested this feature in-depth but it seems to generate basic missionsIts also a good feature for single player newbies and guys who don't have a lot of timeYes you have a good selection from are own download section here on SB.com but the Missions on offer may not be what your looking for at that time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDF Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I was wondering have Esim plans to have a random generated Mission facility.This thought accrued to me as I was screwing around with the DCS world mission editor.Which is good but not as good or as detailed as the SB editor, But it did have this generate Mission facility which I really liked.We are lucky in the SB community to have many Talented mission designers and I really Don't think any computer program could match the attention to detail force ratios and all The other stuff that goes in to making a top notch Mission. But I do remember when my playing time for SB was very limited and making or even editing a mission would have used most of my allocated time . A facility like the one DCS Has where you have a simple drop down menu box with options like nation. time. weather Amount of vehicles. Etc. then hit generate mission and away you go.I have not tested this feature in-depth but it seems to generate basic missionsIts also a good feature for single player newbies and guys who don't have a lot of timeYes you have a good selection from are own download section here on SB.com but the Missions on offer may not be what your looking for at that time.marko,Is this for air missions only, or ground missions for Combined Arms? If it's for air missions, can it do a sensible deployment of friendly and/or enemy ground forces? I just wonder if it's much easier to generate an air mission because terrain is not so much of a factor, and because there are only a few units in play. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ssnake Posted April 2, 2014 Members Share Posted April 2, 2014 We'll skip working on automatic mission generation until we have a brilliant idea how this will work. M1TP and M1TP2 did a pretty good job in a narrow band of application cases (the motorized rifle regiment as the sole opposing force with its rather rigid deployment rules).As long as we have much bigger fish to fry in other areas I'm not losing sleep over this. It really is a matter of priorities (and the expected challenge to implement something with which we would be happy), and the reward/effort ratio doesn't look too promising to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parachuteprone Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I was wondering have Esim plans to have a random generated Mission facility.This thought accrued to me as I was screwing around with the DCS world mission editor.Which is good but not as good or as detailed as the SB editor, But it did have this generate Mission facility which I really liked.We are lucky in the SB community to have many Talented mission designers and I really Don't think any computer program could match the attention to detail force ratios and all The other stuff that goes in to making a top notch Mission. But I do remember when my playing time for SB was very limited and making or even editing a mission would have used most of my allocated time . A facility like the one DCS Has where you have a simple drop down menu box with options like nation. time. weather Amount of vehicles. Etc. then hit generate mission and away you go.I have not tested this feature in-depth but it seems to generate basic missionsIts also a good feature for single player newbies and guys who don't have a lot of timeYes you have a good selection from are own download section here on SB.com but the Missions on offer may not be what your looking for at that time.Been hoping for something like this myself for a very long time. Making my own missions takes time & seems to spoil the enjoyment for me. I don't utilize most of the features of the editor and am not a skilled mission designer.The user made missions are great but you have no say in the force mix/ Nationality etc.Would be nice to even have something with simple engage / defend routes and User defined force levels.Might even boost sales a bit. I know I would spend alot more time with the Sim if we had something like this.Likely gona take a Pat Wilson (ROF) or Paul Lowengrin(Il2) type person to come along though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted April 2, 2014 Author Share Posted April 2, 2014 marko,Is this for air missions only, or ground missions for Combined Arms? If it's for air missions, can it do a sensible deployment of friendly and/or enemy ground forces? I just wonder if it's much easier to generate an air mission because terrain is not so much of a factor, and because there are only a few units in play.Hi MDF.I'm not pro on the DCS editor.Only started using it yesterday but once a mission is generated you can edit it further. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDF Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 The user made missions are great but you have no say in the force mix/ Nationality etc.Very simple to open a mission in the editor and change unit types. Admittedly, not as simple if you want to add or omit entire units if the mission has much in the way of scripting (not to mention spoiler issues).Would be nice to even have something with simple engage / defend routes and User defined force levels.Also, not conceptually difficult with the mission editor to create a mission where the adversary has numerous randomized paths and forces levels, with the user able to determine the basic contours of the mission with triggers such as "small" "medium" or "large" enemy; enemy composition is "infantry", "mechanized", "armored" unit; enemy has helicopter/artillery support; enemy is cautious/normal/aggressive, etc. If there is still a inescapable "spoiler" sensation because you yourself put the mission together, then find another like-minded person and each of you create a flexible mission of the nature I just outlined, and exchange your missions with each other. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parachuteprone Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Tried editing existing scenarios. Its the "spoiler" effect that gets me. Don't think anyone would want my missions - they mostly consist of me slapping down some waypoints and away I go Will have to find some time someday to dive deeper into the editor . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted April 2, 2014 Author Share Posted April 2, 2014 marko,Is this for air missions only, or ground missions for Combined Arms? If it's for air missions, can it do a sensible deployment of friendly and/or enemy ground forces? I just wonder if it's much easier to generate an air mission because terrain is not so much of a factor, and because there are only a few units in play. Tried editing existing scenarios.Its the "spoiler" effect that gets me. Don't think anyone would want my missions - they mostly consist of me slapping down some waypoints and away I go Will have to find some time someday to dive deeper into the editor . That was my point. Although SB attracts the sort of individual that will spend a lot of hours designing missions And if you have the time its great fun to do so. But a single player with limited time.and not much inclination to build there own missions a Mission generator and a single player campaign would add a lot of playability to the Sim Its certainly not high on esims agenda and I can understand military customers and Contracts must take priority. (We all have bills to pay) but I truly believe such additions Would make SB more appealing to lets say Milsimmers with some interest in armour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tacbat Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I'll be your "Random Mission Generator". Just send me your mission criteria, and I'll send you my Paypal info. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted April 2, 2014 Author Share Posted April 2, 2014 I'll be your "Random Mission Generator". Just send me your mission criteria, and I'll send you my Paypal info. LoL. If there was money to be made making missions That would be my dream job. The way things are going in the Milsim market who knows. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWardancer Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 M1 Tank Platoon and the former grand masters of Microprose Inc. made random missions it's bread and butter. For single player missions, this was the best and ONLY way to go and have never seen games like that since. One of the reasons why I did away from the original SB was I didn't want to play online and the single player missions were meager at best. Now, it's a different animal, but would still like to see more random generated missions similar to M1TP for those days when I just don't want to wait until Friday night (LATE NIGHT) to play online. My problem is similar in that I am a lowsy mission editor and I want something unknown to me prior to starting the mission. I'm not sure why game companies have done away from random missions but they have for decades. Zero fun. Guess I'm too old school... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted April 2, 2014 Author Share Posted April 2, 2014 M1 Tank Platoon and the former grand masters of Microprose Inc. made random missions it's bread and butter. For single player missions, this was the best and ONLY way to go and have never seen games like that since. One of the reasons why I did away from the original SB was I didn't want to play online and the single player missions were meager at best. Now, it's a different animal, but would still like to see more random generated missions similar to M1TP for those days when I just don't want to wait until Friday night (LATE NIGHT) to play online. My problem is similar in that I am a lowsy mission editor and I want something unknown to me prior to starting the mission. I'm not sure why game companies have done away from random missions but they have for decades. Zero fun. Guess I'm too old school...I think a lot of developers don't add the generate missions facility any more because they want to Sell you DLC. this is especially true with console games.The PC milsim market still tends to give you an editor, And if I had to pick I would pick the Editor over the generate mission function. but both would be sweet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_William Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I created and run a web-based mission generator for the Arma-* / VBS series. This mission generator can probably be adapted to do the same for SBPro. Dubbed "PlannedAssault", it understands combined-arms maneuvers (infantry, tank, APC/IFV, soft-skinned transports, AA, artillery, crew-served ATGMs, CAS), defensive deployment, flanking, basic fire-support, air-assaults, bridges... It generates a plan and corresponding instructions for one or more sides, using solely high level input: objective(s), units (sections/platoons) and their initial positions. This leaves sufficient room for the mission generator to keep you guessing. For more info, please have a look at www.plannedassault.com . This video ( ) from 2010 and these blog entries ( http://www.plannedassault.com/news_entries?tag=tactics ) best illustrate its capabilities.The obstacles I see for supporting SBPro mission generation are: - being able to read/interpret SBPPro world files (to read the terrain/elevation data, to know where the roads/buildings/objects/streams/bridges/forests are) - being able to write valid unit instructions in the (binary) scenario file format (For Arma / VBS, the .wrp world file format is well documented, and the scenarios are defined in plain text files). Obviously, SBPro missions are less infantry focused, play out on larger pieces of terrain, and the units have a richer command set (routes, tactics). But these differences can be overcome. The richer command set would even make things easier. To summarize, if I'm given assistance with reading/interpreting world files and with writing scenario files (file format), I'll be more than happy to give this a shot. Especially the richer command set attracts me - computer units probably do a better job executing a plan than in Arma/VBS, especially when defending. William 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWardancer Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Wish I could, but I can only read paper files :bigsmile: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDF Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I created and run a web-based mission generator for the Arma-* / VBS series. This mission generator can probably be adapted to do the same for SBPro.Dubbed "PlannedAssault", it understands combined-arms maneuvers (infantry, tank, APC/IFV, soft-skinned transports, AA, artillery, crew-served ATGMs, CAS), defensive deployment, flanking, basic fire-support, air-assaults, bridges... It generates a plan and corresponding instructions for one or more sides, using solely high level input: objective(s), units (sections/platoons) and their initial positions. This leaves sufficient room for the mission generator to keep you guessing. For more info, please have a look at www.plannedassault.com . This video ( ) from 2010 and these blog entries ( http://www.plannedassault.com/news_entries?tag=tactics ) best illustrate its capabilities.The obstacles I see for supporting SBPro mission generation are: - being able to read/interpret SBPPro world files (to read the terrain/elevation data, to know where the roads/buildings/objects/streams/bridges/forests are) - being able to write valid unit instructions in the (binary) scenario file format (For Arma / VBS, the .wrp world file format is well documented, and the scenarios are defined in plain text files). Obviously, SBPro missions are less infantry focused, play out on larger pieces of terrain, and the units have a richer command set (routes, tactics). But these differences can be overcome. The richer command set would even make things easier. To summarize, if I'm given assistance with reading/interpreting world files and with writing scenario files (file format), I'll be more than happy to give this a shot. Especially the richer command set attracts me - computer units probably do a better job executing a plan than in Arma/VBS, especially when defending. William Very nice app. Out of curiosity, have you ever systematically tested the computer-generated mission plans against human-created ones (using the same forces, terrain, general missions, etc.) to see how it compares to human intelligence? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parachuteprone Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 I created and run a web-based mission generator for the Arma-* / VBS series. This mission generator can probably be adapted to do the same for SBPro.Dubbed "PlannedAssault", it understands combined-arms maneuvers (infantry, tank, APC/IFV, soft-skinned transports, AA, artillery, crew-served ATGMs, CAS), defensive deployment, flanking, basic fire-support, air-assaults, bridges... It generates a plan and corresponding instructions for one or more sides, using solely high level input: objective(s), units (sections/platoons) and their initial positions. This leaves sufficient room for the mission generator to keep you guessing. For more info, please have a look at www.plannedassault.com . This video ( ) from 2010 and these blog entries ( http://www.plannedassault.com/news_entries?tag=tactics ) best illustrate its capabilities.The obstacles I see for supporting SBPro mission generation are: - being able to read/interpret SBPPro world files (to read the terrain/elevation data, to know where the roads/buildings/objects/streams/bridges/forests are) - being able to write valid unit instructions in the (binary) scenario file format (For Arma / VBS, the .wrp world file format is well documented, and the scenarios are defined in plain text files). Obviously, SBPro missions are less infantry focused, play out on larger pieces of terrain, and the units have a richer command set (routes, tactics). But these differences can be overcome. The richer command set would even make things easier. To summarize, if I'm given assistance with reading/interpreting world files and with writing scenario files (file format), I'll be more than happy to give this a shot. Especially the richer command set attracts me - computer units probably do a better job executing a plan than in Arma/VBS, especially when defending. William That would be amazing ! Would massively improve SBPRO for me. Hoping someone here can help you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfstriked Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 That would be amazing !Would massively improve SBPRO for me.Hoping someone here can help you.I agree,I like small skirmishes where its my platoon vs another one or two.If there was a program that I could add in variables and then play it and not know where all enemy tanks will be,it would be awesome.:luxhello: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share Posted April 4, 2014 Very nice app. Out of curiosity, have you ever systematically tested the computer-generated mission plans against human-created ones (using the same forces, terrain, general missions, etc.) to see how it compares to human intelligence?AI has always interested me. The whole Deep Blue versus Garry Kasparov was fascinating.One would like to think a human would be able to beat a machineComputers have no imagination they cant be devious or cunningSo how the hell are they able to beat humans.William if you do go ahead with the project do me a favour don't call it sky net. LoL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_William Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Very nice app. Out of curiosity, have you ever systematically tested the computer-generated mission plans against human-created ones (using the same forces, terrain, general missions, etc.) to see how it compares to human intelligence?No, I haven't. Partially because Arma-* doesn't lend itself well for playing "from the map" as an overall commander, partially because the missions I generate contain additional logic and scripting which you cannot expect from a commander, and partially because to win from a human I'd have to exploit "loopholes" in the simulation (such as infantry not engaging beyond 800m, even with TOW-* and Javelin ATGMs).But mainly because what people really want is an opponent (and friendly forces) who (both) use a "plausible" plan to attack or defend. This leaves them free to assume any role, such as a forward observer, a gunship co/pilot, a medic or tank commander. People can easily balance the scenario by, for example, upgrading T-72As to T-72Bs, by adding a Cobra gunship or a mortar team, or by tightening the time limit.Creating a full and plausible plan for a maneuver is already hard enough a problem.Off-topic:There is some recent research in creating AI for RTS games such as StarCraft, but even the best AIs are beaten by top human players. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDF Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Creating a full and plausible plan for a maneuver is already hard enough a problem. I would imagine so. Off-topic:There is some recent research in creating AI for RTS games such as StarCraft, but even the best AIs are beaten by top human players. Yeah, every so often I delve into the game AI literature. Really fascinating stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratos Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I'm really interested in this. William any update? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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